IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[cluciano63]

Even pictures, a video or voice recording would only prove the girls were alive at that particular moment. I thought maybe LE tested something they thought was blood, that turned out not to be blood, something like that. But I don't see how they can truthfully say the girls are alive if they do not know where they are. They should have said, IMO, as of this time, i.e. the girls are believed to be alive, something like that.

 

[cindysue]

Wow all this talk about how they got over or around the fence and they could have just walked thru the gate!!? Srsly?

 

[SapphireSteel]

First time chiming in on these threads, though I've been following this case since the start. The talk about attempted abductions using a white van got me to wondering how often this is happening. Here's what I've found so far and I find it frightening.

July 18th, Peru, IL (167 miles from Cedar Rapids): attempted abduction of 11 yr old boy on bike by white van with chubby male driver.
http://newstrib.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=27&ArticleID=20926

July 19th, Cordova (Memphis), TN: attempted abduction of a 10 year old girl walking down a street, by 2 men in blue jump suits driving a white van.
http://wreg.com/2012/07/19/attempted-abduction-in-cordova/

July 26th, Marion and Debuque, IA; Mentions of 2 possible attempted abductions by a man in a white van. Man was found, interviewed and released because they didn't have enough evidence to hold him. Cripe!
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up.../article_52807f14-d6a3-11e1-a10d-001a4bcf887a.
AND: http://www.kwwl.com/story/19093640/dubuque-girl-escaped-possible-abduction

July 6th, Falls Church, VA: Attempted abduction of a 16 yr old girl as she was walking, by a hispanic man in a white van.
http://fallschurch.patch.com/articles/police-looking-for-man-who-tried-to-abduct-a-falls-church-girl

July 12th, Falls Church, VA (And LE doesn't believe these 2 cases are connected, HUH???) Attempted abduction of a girl by a hispanic man in a dusty blue sedan.
http://fallschurch.patch.com/articles/falls-church-police-investigating-second-abduction-attempt

July 26th, Story County, Iowa - 2 abduction attempts of a total of 3 kids, all on the same day. 1 involving a white van and the other a brown van.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...ES/2-abduction-attempts-reported-Story-County

April 28th, Williamsport, PA, attempted abduction of 12 yr old boy by 2 males in a white van.
http://www.sungazette.com/page/content.detail/id/577694/2-try-to-abduct-12-year-old.html?nav=5011

April 26th, Clinton, MI - attempted abduction of 19 year old girl by man in white van. http://www.lenconnect.com/news/x1105742854/Information-sought-in-attempted-abduction

March 29th, Huntington, West VA, this article refers to 3 separate abduction attempts involving a white utility van, in 3 counties. http://sundaygazettemail.com/News/201203290035


Just a guess, but it appears that this might be some sort of organized child abduction ring as it appears that the abduction attempts are occurring in clumps around particular time periods. Lots of references to abduction attempts in April and July in the midwest and east coast. I have to run for now but will do some more research on this later. I just told both of my kids to never go near white vans, especially the kinds without windows in the back.

For an organised abduction ring, they are failing quite a lot...?

All of the above are "attempts" but no abduction. Not a very successful abduction ring...!

:moo:

 

[roseofsharon]

Even pictures, a video or voice recording would only prove the girls were alive at that particular moment. I thought maybe LE tested something they thought was blood, that turned out not to be blood, something like that. But I don't see how they can truthfully say the girls are alive if they do not know where they are. They should have said, IMO, as of this time, i.e. the girls are believed to be alive, something like that.

I can't find a link at the moment, but I thought authorities also felt the girls were alive due to evidence found, but didn't release any details on what was found.


evidence found fbi say iowa girls are alive - Google Search

 

[SapphireSteel]

Wow all this talk about how they got over or around the fence and they could have just walked thru the gate!!? Srsly?

Dan Morrisey himself pointed out how easy it would be to grab the girls at the spot the bikes were.

He called it a "spot that looks...like a trap" so I imagine he knows enough about the layout to call it that, which also implies that there was easy getaway etc.

He's a local and knows EXACTLY where the bikes were, so I'm taking it.

 

[iamnotagolem]

For an organised abduction ring, they are failing quite a lot...?

All of the above are "attempts" but no abduction. Not a very successful abduction ring...!

:moo:

Exactly my thinking! All of these alleged attempts with no success, yet somehow managed to get two girls off of bikes at a lake that has houses around it.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I can't find a link at the moment, but I thought authorities also felt the girls were alive due to evidence found, but didn't release any details on what was found.

The fact they have been silent lately indicates to me that they no longer believe they are alive.

I hope I am wrong.

lease:

 

[elmomom]

Very interesting reading

Some detectives believe that in any murder of a child the logical suspect is a parent and therefore, they devote a considerable amount of resources to prove that belief. But this research shows that the parents are the least likely suspects in the abduction murder of a child.

Page 10
http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

 

[otto]

Wow all this talk about how they got over or around the fence and they could have just walked thru the gate!!? Srsly?

It's true. I didn't know that the gate was beside the drainage pipe, that police said the bikes were beside the gate, or that the gate was normally unlocked. I was still considering the possibility that the cyclist had seen the girls bikes, but I don't see how that's possible if the bikes were leaning against the fence at the gate - since there's no sharp curve in the trail at that point. For me, that opens up the possibility that the bikes were put there any time between 12:15 and around 2, when family began searching for the girls.

 

[cluciano63]

I can't find a link at the moment, but I thought authorities also felt the girls were alive due to evidence found, but didn't release any details on what was found.


evidence found fbi say iowa girls are alive - Google Search

Right...but some of us having been trying to guess what that could be. My point was more about how it might not apply now...i.e. even if they had been alive at that moment two weeks ago or so, when LE claimed to have evidence. Or even an hour later from when they said it, really.

 

[otto]

Right...but some of us having been trying to guess what that could be. My point was more about how it might not apply now...i.e. even if they had been alive at that moment two weeks ago or so, when LE claimed to have evidence. Or even an hour later from when they said it, really.

Maybe the tip was related to the phone message that Elizabeth left for her father telling him that she missed him. Perhaps he reported that message to police, thinking it was new, and police then discovered that the message had been left 9 days earlier, just before the girls were abducted. Perhaps someone jumped the gun and thought the message came after the abduction.

 

[elmomom]

More interesting reading

Child abduction murderers were strangers to the victims 44% of the cases, and were family friends or acquantances in 42% of the cases. The killer was an intimate or family member of the victim in 13.7% of the cases.

So, roughly half of those killed by non-family were killed by absolute strangers, and half by people they knew.
A lot of what is known by this data (based on over 1000 cases) is not what people commonly believe, and what I see posted over and over. Thanks Pensfan for posting this, it is a great resource.

http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

 

[huckleberryhound]

I wonder if the gate in the fence was just unlocked when the police first found the bikes, or was it actually left open? Would an abductor stop to close the gate behind him?

 

[Confusion]

Since I haven't posted any new theories for a couple days, I think it's time to try something a little different...

Since LE hasn't actually confirmed that the bikes that TG saw did belong to the girls, and it sounds like they may not have been in the same place as the girls' bikes were found, it is possible that they belonged to someone else.

If a couple of kids were out there (a study I read once years ago stated that boys are more likely to just drop their bikes on the ground than girls are. Girls are more likely to use the kickstand or lean it against something), they may have been messing around in the woods and seen something interesting. If they left the lake area and ran into the girls, they could have told them about whatever it was. If the girls were curious enough, they may have gone out there to have a quick look, thinking they'd be back before WC had to leave.

If they left their bikes at the gate and went to look at whatever it was, they may have been spotted. It's possible that Elizabeth got close to the gate before she was caught, and droppped her purse when she was grabbed. Lyric could have been grabbed anywhere along the way since there's nothing to indicate where it may have happened. If there was a vehicle parked back there somewhere, the girls could have been taken to it then and driven out.

I know that's a lot of ifs, and would mean that 2 young boys have been able to keep their mouths shut about whatever it was for this long. IF it happened this way, it could just be that the boys are afraid to say they had been there - maybe because their parents didn't allow them to go there alone and/or they're afraid whoever grabbed the girls would go after them if they knew they'd been there.

 

[trigger]

EVANSDALE (KWWL) -
It's been three weeks since cousins Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins were last seen in Evansdale. The two cousins were last seen Friday, July 13th.

Their bikes were found near Meyers Lake, which authorities later drained to try and find evidence.

The FBI says there were investigators back at Meyers Lake on Thursday night and Friday morning, but found no positive results.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

More interesting reading

So, roughly half of those killed by non-family were killed by absolute strangers, and half by people they knew.
A lot of what is known by this data (based on over 1000 cases) is not what people commonly believe, and what I see posted over and over. Thanks Pensfan for posting this, it is a great resource.

http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

BBM

That misinformation has gone on as long as I have been on message boards.

I have always believed this. Nice to see it validated. Thanks Pensfan for the link. Very interesting.

And in this case imo this kidnapping doesnt involve these parents either.

IMO

 

[1MommaBear]

Hi all! I'm new here and have been trying to follow this case as closely as I can. I'm so impressed with everyone's sleuthing skills and ability to keep all of these details straight! You all are amazing.

I have a question. I seem to recall that there was a raid at a home, but then never heard anything after that. Does anyone have any information about this?

Thanks!

 

[Pensfan]

Welcome to Websleuths, 1MommaBear!
:welcome:

 

[iamnotagolem]

From this article:
http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

The child is usually abducted in a place very close to where he/she was last seen.
The child killer usually takes the abducted child more than 1/4 mile* from where he was abducted, but the distance between the murder site and where the body is later dumped is less than 199 feet in most cases.
There are unknowing witnesses to child abductions in 33% of cases.



Who fits this description?
FBI profile of a child killer
• His average age is 27.8* years old.
• 69.8% are white,* 19.1 black,
• He is usually unmarried and unattached at the time of the murder.
• 17.1% of child killers live alone, and 33.2% live with their parents.
• He usually either lives in the neighborhood where the abduction takes place or frequents that area during his everyday activities.
• 1/2 of child killers are unemployed or work in unskilled or semi-skilled jobs.
• 2/3 of child killers have prior arrests for violent crimes. 1/2 of those violent crimes were committed against children.
• The child killer’s most frequent past crime is sexual in nature, and the primary motive for a child abduction is sexual.
• The use of *advertiser censored* by killers as a trigger to murder has increased since the original study.
• The child is usually abducted in a place very close to where he/she was last seen.
• The child killer usually takes the child more than 1/4 mile* from where he was abducted,
• but the distance between the murder site and where the body is later dumped is less than 199 feet in most cases.
• 23.7 returned to the place they dumped the body
• 9.7 contacted the victim’s family
• 10% of the child killers interjected themselves into the actual murder investigation.
• Police usually have contact with the killer before he becomes a primary suspect.

BBM, I find this so interesting. The last sighting was 12:15 on Brovan, caught on CCTV. I think the girls were abducted soon after, I do not think they went to the lake after that.

 

[1MommaBear]

Welcome to Websleuths, 1MommaBear!
:welcome:

Thanks! :seeya: