IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[mkay882]

Ill just repeat what I posted last night. Lol
The FBI made that statement one day and the next day Iowa LE announced
they had nothing new and that they wouldn't be holding pressers until there was
Something to update.

I think it's simply 'cop-speak' until remains are found... and not so much a real belief. MOO

 

[nikb]

BBM
Actually, the 68.4% was one of those that was made up. Sorry 'bout that.

I got it. thanks for the humor. I just finished reading some of the FB page and I'm in tears again, but your post made me laugh. I feel like I need to take a break from this for awhile but yeah right, who am I kidding?

Elizabeth and Lyric please come home soon! I know you probably would if you could. I am trying to keep the hope alive that you will soon.

 

[SeeMamaRun]

I went searching because I thought I had seen someone besides Aunt T. mention the search dogs and was able to find this little snippet from July 18.

------------
FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault said the reaction from the dogs Monday night indicated a "strong possibility" the girls had been at the lake, less than a mile from their grandmother's house where they were last reported seen Friday. However, Breault said because there were no confirmed sightings at the lake, authorities couldn't be certain.
------------
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/fbi-dogs-detect-scents-1479200.html

Not sure exactly what it means but it seems less likely that the bikes were a set up unless the perp drove the girls to the lake and then made them leave the bikes there which seems unlikely imo

I wonder if Aunt T. knows something that she's afraid to mention. Like, maybe Lyric told her about going to the lake before and meeting someone there? Maybe Aunt T. was more like a friend than an authority figure so the girls felt comfortable confiding in her. It would explain why T. suddenly decided to teach the girls about stranger danger and why she had a feeling the girls were at the lake. Maybe initially she felt guilty for not warning the moms/grandma about Lyric's trips to the lake. Although, I'd hope if this were true she would've told someone by now.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Perp may have used Maiden Lane from one of the streets just north of Meyers Lake to take the bikes to the trail late at night if the perp was a local and knew the area well. Just a thought.

That is part of what is so puzzling about this case.

The girls were caught on a security cam video at 12:15 pm (just after noon).

Their bicycles were found at 3:58 pm the same afternoon.

The location of the bicycles certainly suggests that the perp knew the area pretty well. But the time frame seems really tight for grabbing two girls and then staging the two bicycles.

 

[otto]

I just wanted to chime in and say beautiful post, Dovebar. It is important to remember that people from different socioeconomic classes do have different lives. It doesn't mean they aren't as smart or as savvy but sometimes it does mean they live in areas that aren't as safe. And even with loving, careful parents, this raises the danger for a child. I wish for Elizabeth and Lyric's sakes (and all the missing out there tonight) that all of us could be completely safe, but the truth is none of us are, not really, not 100%. Even in higher class neighborhoods anything can happen.

But again, thanks for the informative reminder about socioeconomic culture differences. And I agree - there needs to be a lot more education surrounding this. Although I have to say, when my daughter was in Kindergarten a few years ago (public schools), she was taught Stranger Danger, and they followed up on it again in 1st and 2nd, which I liked. Of course, we taught her all of that ourselves, but if it is part of public school curriculum as well, that can help.

Now I'll head back down to the basement! All of this is just IMHO, of course and no offense meant to anyone of any social class. I'm no millionaire myself and I do not believe money or economic class makes any one person better than another.

This discussion about socio-economic aspects of missing children is interesting. I suspect that someone could write a paper about it concluding that there are socio-economic factors that may pre-dispose a child to opportunistic predators.

 

[otto]

AFAIK, no signs of struggle were found near the lake which goes back to the theory that the bikes were a red herring.

Not necessarily a red herring at all. The girls may have ridden the bikes there, meaning they are crucial to the investigation in terms of who else was in that particuar area at the same time.

 

[longtallcold]

After a longggggg day at the beach - were talking over 8 hrs. I can attest to the socio-economic theory. Of course, its only based on assumptions but, I watched a mother come over literally from 200 yards away to ask her older daughter where the younger one was, to which the older one said "i dont know" then the "mother" proceeded to yell at older one (who was maybe 11) that "you better find her"...then mom walked back to place of partying. I was in shock - I went to bathroom with older one and found younger one. And another instance...just today... a "dad" said lets go to kids and started walking toward parking lot... no clue if kids were behind him or not (they werent) then halfway there he turns around and starts yellingggggggggg at them and threatening to whoop their butts. THEN he comes back and tells daughter (maybe 12) that "I hope you get sick" from being in the water!!! I was so appalled by so much I saw today at the beach...that is just the tip of what I saw/heard. People need parenting classes mandated ugh!!!

ETA: im poor as heck lol///not enuff to receive govt money but pretty close.... and while maybe not mother of the year...I talk to my little one with respect and stern voice when needed...but never ever speak or threaten or blame them for this stuff omg !!

 

[Sailorsgirl]

What kind of signs of struggle could there be on a path? All the person/people would have to do is drag the girls to the wooded area and put them in a car or pick them up and carry them to a car waiting near Maiden Lane.

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space>
I wonder if Aunt T. knows something that she's afraid to mention. Like, maybe Lyric told her about going to the lake before and meeting someone there? Maybe Aunt T. was more like a friend than an authority figure so the girls felt comfortable confiding in her. It would explain why T. suddenly decided to teach the girls about stranger danger and why she had a feeling the girls were at the lake. Maybe initially she felt guilty for not warning the moms/grandma about Lyric's trips to the lake. Although, I'd hope if this were true she would've told someone by now.

I completely agree. I thought it was weird timing for the "stranger danger" talk - hopefully it was a refresher talk from discussions someone's had with the girls numerous times before! One thought I've had is maybe the timing had something to do with the girls going back to school soon, if they were. I don't know the school schedules in IA but a lot of the CA schools are either just starting back or getting ready to.

I do feel pretty strongly that Aunt T knew about the trips to the lake, at least by Lyric, and hopefully she's talked to any important "someones" about it by now (no particular "someone" in mind, just someone in LE and maybe with other family members as they try to piece it together).

All of the above MOO.

 

[SeeMamaRun]

Does anyone know what type of watercraft are allowed on Meyers Lake, specifically boats ... do they allow gas motors, electric motors or just boat and oars? Are there any limitations regarding size of boat and where are the launch areas for boats around Meyers Lake. TIA

The only thing I could find is on the Iowa DNR site which says Electric Motors Only

http://www.iowadnr.gov/idnr/Fishing/WheretoFish/LakesPondsReservoirs/LakeDetails.aspx?lakeCode=MEY07

HTH!

ETA: the boat ramp is on the north side of the lake

 

[gregjrichards]

That may work if the girls were close by and didn't get into a vehicle. Also, it's been three weeks, would scent dogs even be able to catch their scent at this point?

I think the scent might be there still. Didn't dogs follow Amber Dubois scent a long time after she disappeared? I think if a dogs sent was going to lead to something it would have done so by now though unfortunately in my opinion.

 

[otto]

Perp may have used Maiden Lane from one of the streets just north of Meyers Lake to take the bikes to the trail late at night if the perp was a local and knew the area well. Just a thought.

Arbutus Avenue runs North of Maiden Lane. It would make sense that the bikes were staged if the bikes had been left there after dark, but they were found along a popular trail 3.5 hours after the girls were last seen in broad daylight.

I agree that it's likely a local guy if he knew about the trail past the Sewer Lift Station ... leading to the trail. Maybe it's someone that worked briefly in the area, someone that's a bit of a loner

 

[Considering]

Does anyone know what type of watercraft are allowed on Meyers Lake, specifically boats ... do they allow gas motors, electric motors or just boat and oars? Are there any limitations regarding size of boat and where are the launch areas for boats around Meyers Lake. TIA

Look for someone's post last night. Something about rules/regs at Meyers Lake. It was in there I believe.

 

[SeeMamaRun]

I completely agree. I thought it was weird timing for the "stranger danger" talk - hopefully it was a refresher talk from discussions someone's had with the girls numerous times before! One thought I've had is maybe the timing had something to do with the girls going back to school soon, if they were. I don't know the school schedules in IA but a lot of the CA schools are either just starting back or getting ready to. I do feel pretty strongly that she knew about the trips to the lake, at least by Lyric, and hopefully she's talked to any important "someones" about it by now (no particular "someone" in mind, just someone in LE and maybe with other family members as they try to piece it together).

All of the above MOO.

School schedules are kind of all over the place here. Looks like Evansdale Schools are in the Waterloo school district. One school in Waterloo started July 18!? Three start August 6 and the rest (including the 2 in Evansdale) start August 16. Why do you think it might be related?

 

[Eyespy]

I completely agree. I thought it was weird timing for the "stranger danger" talk - hopefully it was a refresher talk from discussions someone's had with the girls numerous times before! One thought I've had is maybe the timing had something to do with the girls going back to school soon, if they were. I don't know the school schedules in IA but a lot of the CA schools are either just starting back or getting ready to. I do feel pretty strongly that she knew about the trips to the lake, at least by Lyric, and hopefully she's talked to any important "someones" about it by now (no particular "someone" in mind, just someone in LE and maybe with other family members as they try to piece it together).

All of the above MOO.

With all of the attempted abductions in Iowa this spring and summer, that very well could have been the reason for having a stranger danger refresher discussion, IMO. I know I have had several discussions with my son even before the girls disappearance due to the other strange activity in the area.

 

[SeeMamaRun]

School schedules are kind of all over the place here. Looks like Evansdale Schools are in the Waterloo school district. One school in Waterloo started July 18!? Three start August 6 and the rest (including the 2 in Evansdale) start August 16. Why do you think it might be related?

Quoting myself because I realize I misunderstood. You mean the stranger danger refresher might be related to school starting soon? That makes sense.

I thought you meant that their abduction might be related to school starting soon which I didn't understand

 

[Considering]

Does anyone know what type of watercraft are allowed on Meyers Lake, specifically boats ... do they allow gas motors, electric motors or just boat and oars? Are there any limitations regarding size of boat and where are the launch areas for boats around Meyers Lake. TIA

I found it. It was in the previous thread which is now closed, of course, so I couldn't quote, but tlcox posted it. Here's the link:

http://evansdale.govoffice.com/vert...ds/{55147538-DB11-4E16-B57A-9B276DF1DFAA}.PDF

No gasoline motors - second from the bottom.

 

[otto]

I think the scent might be there still. Didn't dogs follow Amber Dubois scent a long time after she disappeared? I think if a dogs sent was going to lead to something it would have done so by now though unfortunately in my opinion.

In the Laci Peterson case, it was said that the dogs tracked her from her house in a vehicle all the way to the bay where she eventually washed up. I think dogs are able to track a scent even a couple of weeks later. I was really surprised when it happened in the Peterson case ... but maybe those kind of dogs should be brought in ... can Tim Miller arrange something like that?

 

[Marilynilpa]

In the Laci Peterson case, it was said that the dogs tracked her from her house in a vehicle all the way to the bay where she eventually washed up. I think dogs are able to track a scent even a couple of weeks later. I was really surprised when it happened in the Peterson case ... but maybe those kind of dogs should be brought in ... can Tim Miller arrange something like that?

Tim Miller has to be asked, and I don't think anyone has asked him.

Maybe because LE still thinks the girls are alive, and they don't want to waste TES's resources? JMO

 

[otto]

I found it. It was in the previous thread which is now closed, of course, so I couldn't quote, but tlcox posted it. Here's the link:

http://evansdale.govoffice.com/vert...ds/{55147538-DB11-4E16-B57A-9B276DF1DFAA}.PDF

No gasoline motors - second from the bottom.

Is Meyers Lake a reservoir ... can a leach infested lake be a reservoir? I looked for irrigation maps when I was curious about the drainage pipe ... found a surveyor's map.