IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[Copper]

Is there another gate other than the one in the picture that is right beside the lake? It has been said that this is the gate near where the bikes were found. In the picture, there is no room for a car to be parked there, and it has been said that the lake was even higher on the day the girls were abducted.

I think it is starting to get misunderstood that there is a gate where Maiden Lane meets the trail. It doesn't look like it from any of the pictures and it has never been mentioned in any news report I've seen.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Is there another gate other than the one in the picture that is right beside the lake? It has been said that this is the gate near where the bikes were found. In the picture, there is no room for a car to be parked there, and it has been said that the lake was even higher on the day the girls were abducted.

I haven't studied the maps myself, and I question this?

It appears to me that there WOULD be room?

I have been going on statements only, of LE and DM, and this from Nancy Grace -

SPELLMAN: Yes, there was a gate -- there was a gate there that was open. It wouldn`t be difficult to get through either a hole in the fence - - which is not too close, several hundred yards away from where the bikes were found that leads up to the highway. It looks like that at one point, there was a traffic accident there, and they never repaired the fence.

And there also is another gate farther down. It wouldn`t be impossible to get from one side to the other. It wouldn`t be a huge deal to do that.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

 

[SK_Hunter]

Are we confusing two attempts -- the one where the girl's face was touched and the one were three perps grabbed a boy off a bike?

Would fit for possible suspects in this daylight robbery of two girls. I would believe, in order to be successful at what they are trying to accomplish, they would have to roam and roam frequently. Roam to surrounding towns, cities, counties, states. Their usual specialty is county lines. This would explain all the "white van" sightings. Not going to stop either and one could speculate as to their success already. There is something to glean in this failure in particular as they could be seen as a bungling group. So average intelligence would be implied, with probably an average to below average job. Lack of planning and execution points to a person whose own life has probably faltered due to the same. Due to all this, this does not seem like it was done for someones personal pleasure/needs. Especially if the reports of a female involved are true. I find it hard to believe that this abduction was going to satisfy 3 individuals, personal perverse needs. I dont think this type of crime is common. The bungled, haphazard attempt makes me believe its some hired help/amateurs attempting to abduct for the purposes of sex trafficking. The recent, local sex trafficking bust would atleast place this type of crime in the vicinty. IMO

Does K & W Sausage and Specialty Meats deliver to the surrounding areas? And if so, how far/where?

 

[otto]

Is there another gate other than the one in the picture that is right beside the lake? It has been said that this is the gate near where the bikes were found. In the picture, there is no room for a car to be parked there, and it has been said that the lake was even higher on the day the girls were abducted.

I don't think so. There seems to be one gate along the double fenced area and that is next to the drainage pipe. There only one way to access the gate: by driving down the 10 foot wide pedestrian trail. There's no place to turn around or back up because of the fences (8 ft and 6 ft in height) on either side of the trail. A police vehicle drove down the path during the search for the girls, and I suspect that any vehicle along that trail would most likely be noticed by people in the area.

 

[dnasmom9]

I was researching differnet articles regarding this case and came upon a comment on this article that struck my attention. http://m.topix.com/forum/city/evansdale-ia/T6TKS5A8QDQN5IR12

 

[SouthernMom]

I haven't studied the maps myself, and I question this?

It appears to me that there WOULD be room?
[/I]

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

The picture is on page 27 and post number 664 of this thread. If the lake was as high as the watermarks and up to the weeds as the wet earth would indicate, there would not be much room for a car.

 

[Thinkzerz]

I was researching differnet articles regarding this case and came upon a comment on this article that struck my attention. http://m.topix.com/forum/city/evansdale-ia/T6TKS5A8QDQN5IR12

"Little new information". To me they are not saying no new information. IMO

Interesting comment on there.

 

[otto]

I haven't studied the maps myself, and I question this?

It appears to me that there WOULD be room?

I have been going on statements only, of LE and DM, and this from Nancy Grace -

SPELLMAN: Yes, there was a gate -- there was a gate there that was open. It wouldn`t be difficult to get through either a hole in the fence - - which is not too close, several hundred yards away from where the bikes were found that leads up to the highway. It looks like that at one point, there was a traffic accident there, and they never repaired the fence.

And there also is another gate farther down. It wouldn`t be impossible to get from one side to the other. It wouldn`t be a huge deal to do that.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

The trail is 10 feet wide with fences on both sides of the trail at the location of the gate. There's simply no where to turn around. Anyone that drives to the location of the gate has to continue driving on the trail until the trail meets a road.

The double fenced area is only about 500 feet in length, so I'm not sure what the Nancy Grace people are talking about when they discuss 400 yards or several hundred yards. They should look at google earth and check measurements before they voice their opinion.

 

[callyn]

The picture is on page 27 and post number 664 of this thread. If the lake was as high as the watermarks and up to the weeds as the wet earth would indicate, there would not be much room for a car.

The car would have been on the other side of the fence from the water. Between the two fences, on the pathway.

 

[justamama]

Would fit for possible suspects in this daylight robbery of two girls. I would believe, in order to be successful at what they are trying to accomplish, they would have to roam and roam frequently. Roam to surrounding towns, cities, counties, states. Their usual specialty is county lines. This would explain all the "white van" sightings. Not going to stop either and one could speculate as to their success already. There is something to glean in this failure in particular as they could be seen as a bungling group. So average intelligence would be implied, with probably an average to below average job. Lack of planning and execution points to a person whose own life has probably faltered due to the same. Due to all this, this does not seem like it was done for someones personal pleasure/needs. Especially if the reports of a female involved are true. I find it hard to believe that this abduction was going to satisfy 3 individuals, personal perverse needs. I dont think this type of crime is common. The bungled, haphazard attempt makes me believe its some hired help/amateurs attempting to abduct for the purposes of sex trafficking. The recent, local sex trafficking bust would atleast place this type of crime in the vicinty. IMO

Does K & W Sausage and Specialty Meats deliver to the surrounding areas? And if so, how far/where?

BBM: A quick search shows that K&W Sausage does indeed have a USDA/Federally inspected license which would be required for retail across state lines, but is also required simply for in-state resale of processed meats (sausages, smoked meats, etc).

 

[nikb]

Removed to avoid future confusion about Maiden Ln since my original impression wasn't correct.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The trail is 10 feet wide with fences on both sides of the trail at the location of the gate. There's simply no where to turn around. Anyone that drives to the location of the gate has to continue driving on the trail until the trail meets a road.

The double fenced area is only about 500 feet in length, so I'm not sure what the Nancy Grace people are talking about when they discuss 400 yards or several hundred yards. They should look at google earth and check measurements before they voice their opinion.

What about reversing?

Spellman was actually in Evansdale, he saw things for himself...not sure why he would report something so inaccurate?

 

[123ABC]

@ motherocean the paddle boater does seem to make sense especially with the missing paddleboater that will not come forward. BUT the bikes were thrown down in the middle of the path?? (in too much of hurry possible) Which was the first I ever read at first when they went missing but maybe im reading too much into how kids think at that age. Adults would prop bikes up 4 sure but I guess its possible for them to just drop them expecting no one to come by obviously only 1 biker did but also seeing a police vehicle picture on path in front of gate its seems they very well could of been chased down very possible too.

 

[SK_Hunter]

“We really have no indication what happened other than we have two bicycles sitting down at a lake,” Abben says.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls


No doubt some will argue but I read this as

Two bikes found. That's it.

A damaged bike would give an "indication of what happened" IMO.


:moo:

Bike damage has become a vital piece of information in these types of cases. Shunick case as many know. And with that case being so fresh, im sure many like I who followed that case, will forever question bike damage in a case involving a bicycle. And all evidence related to the bike. With another "bike related" case so soon, one easily remembers all the bike related questions asked in that case. They also remember the importance of these facts to the investigation. So for me, knowing if there was or was not bike damage is a crucial piece of information. You can rule out certain types of scenarios and allow others to unfold.

<Mod Snip>

 

[otto]

The picture is on page 27 and post number 664 of this thread. If the lake was as high as the watermarks and up to the weeds as the wet earth would indicate, there would not be much room for a car.

Here is a picture of the police car on the trail.

Where police are walking is normally under water

 

[otto]

Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't think so but I was starting to get confused myself. My impression was it used to be a road that went through but it's been abandoned for quite awhile due to some new housing being built, so it's pretty overgrown with brush etc. but not gated off. IIRC Ollipop didn't even know the lane existed before he went there to take pics of the trail.

Where the Maiden Lane meets the trail, the trail has fences on both sides.

 

[otto]

What about reversing?

Spellman was actually in Evansdale, he saw things for himself...not sure why he would report something so inaccurate?

There is a hole in the fence on the highway side of the trail. It's been there for a long time and was caused by a traffic accident. There is a gate along the trail to access the drainage pipe. The trail at that location is 10 feet wide and there is a fence on either side of the trail. It's obvious that no vehicle can turn around in an area that is 10 feet wide. The total length of the double fenced area is about 500 feet, not yards.

Perhaps he's a poor judge of length and distance.

Anyone driving down the trail around the lake or reversing after driving halfway around the lake would have been noticed by the slowed traffic on the highway, nearby houses and people at the park.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Iv'e never seen this article before. Same ole but never seen it before.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10354200

"Morrissey's most recent legal troubles began last July, when court records show he was pulled over in Waterloo and found to be in possession of baggies of methamphetamine and marijuana. The next month, he was arrested and charged with domestic abuse after police said he threw Misty Morrissey to the ground, smashed her face into the floor, put his knee over her neck so she could barely breathe, and broke her finger."

I only new he broke her finger.

 

[Pensfan]

"The area where the bikes were found is fenced on both sides, and it is right where maintenance gate is it is a spot that looks to me like a trap," Dan Morrissey said. "Somebody could have just come along right then or followed them down it would have been the worst spot to be in right there."
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/jul/17/fbi-dogs-detect-scents-iowa-cousins-near-lake/

Some monster was waiting for them or another female at that very specific point. I don&#8217;t think it was the dad.

 

[GrainneDhu]

In Iowa all cases of child support payments are handled by the Child Support recovery Unit wheather they were on assistance or not. The CSRU will actively keep track of payments, issue payments and keep track of what is owed. If the custodial parent is on assistance or was on assistance they will pursue it harder but even if they weren't on assistance, they will pursue payment including taking the debtor to court for contempt for non-payment and having them jailed.

Also, reviews to have payment adjustment can only be done every 2 years and not less. So if it has been adjusted in the last 24 months, the person in jail would not be able to get a reduction until after the 24 months has passed. Of course since they'd already be in jail they won't do much but accrue an outstanding debt that will be waiting for them when they get out.

There's a gap between the law and actual enforcement, at least in my experience.

I had to help my ex-sil (who I still love like a sister) go after my brother to get the back child support he owed. Since she'd had a job and had never been on government assistance, she was considered low priority by the CSRU and they would get to it when they had cleared higher priority cases.

After more than a year of that, she said the heck with that, went back to her own lawyer and took him to court herself.

The reason she felt forced to take action was because her child had a catastrophic illness and she could no longer work. But even with that information, CRSU still considered her case low priority because she had not applied for assistance (her husband started working massive overtime to support the family while she took care of their child).

Who knows? Maybe CSRU was two days from moving on her case when she took matters into her own hands. Somehow I doubt it.