IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[Bootsctr]

Those may be typical motives for crime, but the kidnapping of children seems to be a separate category. There is a section covering victim selection and motivation in the research paper that SouthernMom posted upthread. According to the study, money and revenge are not motives in the kidnapping of children. Here is the link:

http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

U.S. officials arrested an Australian man in Kentucky today in connection to the case of a mysterious intruder who attached a bogus "collar bomb" to an 18-year-old girl in a wealthy suburb of Sydney, Australia.

Suspect Paul Douglas Peters, 50, is known to commute between the United States and Australia and conducts business in both countries, Australian police said today.

He was arrested at his ex-wife's home in Buckner, just outside Louisville, and New South Wales police, who've been working closely with the FBI, were present for his arrest, officials said at a news conference today.

Australia will seek his extradition to face the charges of aggravated breaking and entering, felony and kidnapping. He is being held on a provisional warrant and has yet to be charged.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/australia-collar-bomb-hoax-fbi-arrests-man-kentucky/story?id=14311316

 

[SapphireSteel]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/australia-collar-bomb-hoax-fbi-arrests-man-kentucky/story?id=14311316

Precisely...perfect example.

Maddy wasn't abducted for sex...but she WAS abducted for revenge and money.

 

[BelieveinUFO]

Those may be typical motives for crime, but the kidnapping of children seems to be a separate category. There is a section covering victim selection and motivation in the research paper that SouthernMom posted upthread. According to the study, money and revenge are not motives in the kidnapping of children. Here is the link:

http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

There are not just a couple of motives but a lot:

1) Family/revenge- drugs
2) Drug addicts finding easy way to make money by selling them
3) Human Trafficking
4) Pedos - RSO/unknown
5) SerialKillers - new/unknown - local/outside
6) Metal-music related gang (some activity in that area)
7) Satanic group


2,3 are related. 4,5 are related. 6,7 are related and also 5,6,7 might be one group.

Considering the placement of bicycles, the only thing that is clear is the person(s) is quite familiar with the area.

 

[Bootsctr]

I really believe that sex was the reason for the abduction. Makes me sick to say it.

If the girls were sold into a ped ring, there was money involved. I cannot rule out extortion. The love of money is the root of all evil.

:lurk:

 

[otto]

There are not just a couple of motives but a lot:

1) Family/revenge- drugs
2) Drug addicts finding easy way to make money by selling them
3) Human Trafficking
4) Pedos - RSO/unknown
5) SerialKillers - new/unknown - local/outside
6) Metal-music related gang (some activity in that area)
7) Satanic group


2,3 are related. 4,5 are related. 6,7 are related and also 5,6,7 might be one group.

Considering the placement of bicycles, the only thing that is clear is the person(s) is quite familiar with the area.

It seems to me that 1-5 is related to the motive of sex, 6 eludes me, and ritual is discussed in the document as myth.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Would you consider "control" to be part of revenge? Because if these girls were taken by someone other than a pedophile, I think it would be for control, either over a person or a situation.

I'm not saying I think this is what happened, just wondering how you see it re: control as a motive.

That depends on control over whom?

If it is just control over two frightened little girls, with no other payoff than enjoying their fear, it will almost certainly have a sexual element somewhere.

If it is control over others through the girls, for example, family or even LE the perp is wishing to manipulate, it is probably based in either revenge or money...maybe not for sane reasons to you and I, but completely logical to the perp.

You have to find the reason for the desire for control...look for what drives it. It will be one of the three, almost always.

Please bear in mind I am going by statistics and "most common" scenarios in all of my posts.

:moo:

 

[Sunlight]

Power is a bottom line motive....all kinds of power.

 

[Beyond Belief]

The choice of victim from this location may have nothing to do with age, the perp could have just been trolling in an area he knew would supply a victim sooner or later. I wonder had an adult woman jogger come along first would she have become the victim.

 

[Bootsctr]

Lest we forget what I term the first "neck collar" bomb that involved the pizza guy (no not a child but still), the mastermind behind that plot, William Rothstein, was your average middle-class American citizen. He was a high school shop teacher. http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-05/justice/pizza.bomb_1_brian-wells-bomb-plot-bomb-squad?_s=PM:CRIME

 

[SapphireSteel]

Lest we forget what I term the first "neck collar" bomb that involved the pizza guy (no not a child but still), the mastermind behind that plot, William Rothstein, was your average middle-class American citizen. He was a high school shop teacher. http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-05/justice/pizza.bomb_1_brian-wells-bomb-plot-bomb-squad?_s=PM:CRIME

It was extortion, a different crime altogether to kidnapping...but I get your point about Mr Nobody and how bland they can be.

:what:

 

[Beyond Belief]

The more I look at the google map of I guess Arbutus to River Rd and that bridge that leads out to the farm land, I am toying with the idea that was the exit route for the perps. If thats a truckers route, its possible that somebody noticed a car/truck going a little too fast or pulling off the road in a strange hasty manner. Its a little late, but you never know. I'll do the cow at this one. MOOO

 

[FrayedKnot]

My father in law is very good friends with the head of our sheriff's department. He has told my FIL, on many occassions, that there are groups who meet in the deep woods for different immoral reasons and that it is known among LE that people are sometimes murdered at these meetings and dumped in different wooded places in our county. There is NOTHING about these strange get-togethers on the local news but I believe the sheriff. He is a good man who sees a lot more crime than the typical person in the community ever knows anything about.

I haven't seen anyone here say anything about the fact that the girls were taken on Friday the 13th. I haven't brought it up because the last time I brought up (on another case) that Satanism is a religion I was highly scolded and basically told I have a mental illness. Satanism is real whether we want to believe it or not. Lots more I could say about this but ... in short, Friday the 13th is one of the "holiest" days on the Satanic calendar. Abduction is the main way that Satanists get their victims. We may not want to even entertain the horrible thought but I guarantee you that the FBI knows some of the wicked things that occur on that day.

Sister, at this point I am open to just about any theory.

I know I have sort of eschewed the idea of Satanist involvement in some other cases, but fact is, sometimes the perps are Satanists or people that fancy themselves as such.

I honestly don't know much about Satanism, but it isn't anymore far fetched than a pedo ring IMHO. Both do exist and both operate under the radar, although thankfully the pedo rings are actually receiving some attention these days it seems.

We have to keep theorizing because that is all we have at this point.

 

[Bootsctr]

It was extortion, a different crime altogether to kidnapping...but I get your point about Mr Nobody and how bland they can be.

:what:

Thank you! I don't know what kind of dysfunction I have going on, but I definitely don't know how to express myself properly at times.

 

[hambirg]

The choice of victim from this location may have nothing to do with age, the perp could have just been trolling in an area he knew would supply a victim sooner or later. I wonder had an adult woman jogger come along first would she have become the victim.

This same thought has crossed my mind too.

I'm an Occam's razor kind of person. The simpler the better.

While I find these other scenarios interesting, I just don't find them plausible. Why abduct two little girls if you are not happy about a GF? Why not just make the GF disappear, especially one with a past drug problem? Make it look like an accidental overdose and very little questions would be asked. Seems like a much simpler and final solution.

Same with DM's situation. Why abduct the girls? It seems to me that if somebody wanted to silence DM they would just make him disappear, wind up as a torso in a cornfield, or make it look like an unfortunate car accident, etc. Much less messy and more final.

I really only favor two scenarios at this point. . .

A random, sexually motivated perp with a weapon, or a team of two perps. I favor semi-transient, working in the area. It rained that morning a little and while that may have not stopped the road crews, it probably would have stopped some painters. I can see a scenario where they are doing a job in Evansdale, maybe taking their lunches at the lake. I don't think you would have to be local to know about Maiden Lane, just observant. Say if they were sitting in the parking lot and saw somebody fishing in that area across the lake, they might have seeked that shady area out for their next lunch break since it has been hot. On the morning of the 13th it rained. . .maybe they tinkered around a little to see if it was going to stop and they could work. . .but the idea of setting a trap at the lake was more appealing. The girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time and this was a random crime of opportunity.

My other scenario involves a team involved in human trafficking. This team would be in Evansdale for only one reason. . .find some victims. While the details would be pretty much similar to the above scenario, I think this would have involved stalking of the girls and possibly the bikes being staged. It wasn't random, the girls were the target. The actual abduction could have occurred wherever it was most convenient and could have been the same spot on the trail. . or could have been near there. But the point would be to put as much space between them and Evansdale as possible in however much time they could buy. These perps would know what they are doing, have probably done it successfully before. . .masters of being invisible right out in open.

Anyway. . .that's all I got.

MOO

 

[Sunlight]

Perps can google too..if they weren't locals.

 

[hambirg]

Perps can google too..if they weren't locals.

I agree. . .if these perps were in Evansdale specifically to abduct children they could pull up the same Google map that we've all been looking at right on their phones. What kinds of places would they look for? Where ever they might find kids unsupervised. . .skate park, other parks, lakes, schools and playgrounds.

 

[Bootsctr]

I have actually thought of Satanism....The West Memphis Three. I watch a show on A & E called Cajun Justice filmed in Terrebone Parish, Louisiana and they practice a lot of voodoo in them parts down there, but in truth probably everywhere. I just have to agree with BelieveinUFO.... based on where the bikes were found whoever took the girls was familiar with the area.

 

[Marilynilpa]

The choice of victim from this location may have nothing to do with age, the perp could have just been trolling in an area he knew would supply a victim sooner or later. I wonder had an adult woman jogger come along first would she have become the victim.

I think whoever took the girls was looking for girls, not a woman IMO. Pedophiles tend to have specific requirements - a certain age range, size, look, etc. I don't know if just any female (i.e., adult woman) would have fed the abductor's perverted needs. JMO and based on no empirical data, just based on things I have read over the years about pedophiles.

Having said that, I don't think a pedo took the girls. To say what I think happened to Lyric and Elizabeth would violate the WS TOS, so I won't even go there.

 

[SouthernMom]

And I have to ask - do you think LE wasted too much time and was tunnel vision with the idea that they had drowned?

I don't think they had tunnel vision in checking the lake thoroughly to make sure the girls were not drowned or "hidden" in the water. If someone caused something to happen to them at the lake, statistics show that the girls would be within 199 feet of where it happened. I don't know that LE ever said this officially, but drowning is only one reason they would have been in the lake.
If LE had not checked that out thoroughly and then the girls were found there, then everyone would have said "Well!!! They should have checked there first!"

pgs 74 and 75 discuss murder site as related to body recovery site.


http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles/Another/Supporting_Law_Enforcement/Homicide_Investigation_Tracking_System_(HITS)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

As always, I am praying that these sweet girls are alive and will make it home soon.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I wonder if that interstate has signs saying "meyers lake", boat ramp, fishing, campground, etc.??