OMFG I caught up!
Got some thoughts still holding from the previous thread:
Otto said:
This is possible, however, if you see my pic of the beginning of Maiden Lane, you would have to know it was there before you decided to pull a vehicle into it. There is nothing from Arbutus, or from the lift station parking spot, that would indicate that you could get a vehicle back there. It wasn't until I went looking that I discovered it (been by there hundreds of times before), and even then I had to walk several steps into the woods before it became apparent that it was some kind of road/path.
Additionally, walking between the lake and the fence would be plainly visible from the other side of the lake, and would appear suspicious, at least to me. I don't think there's much room to do so, and if you came through the gate, it seems you'd have to close it behind you to get to that area.
Reannan said:
BBM...a very important point, IMO. I live here. I walk by Maiden Lane 2-3 times/week. I've looked in there and have seen a clearing, I know there is room to fish in those woods, but have never considered it possible to get a vehicle back there. I never knew how large the clearing was, I never knew how easy to get there from Arbutus, and I pass it on Arbutus frequently as well - walking (meaning I have time to notice) - and have never known about it. Other people obviously do know about it.
GrainneDhu said:
SBM...this is not entirely true. My pic shows the trail from Maiden Lane, as well as Maiden Lane from the trail. What is not clear and evident from either spot is how to get efficiently to the other (i.e, around the fence, over the fence, along the fence to the jetty - all seem relatively cumbersome.)
From this thread:
Again, this route would be plainly visible, and seem quite odd/suspicious, to anyone at the lake parking area. I think its possible the girls were on the jetty (purse got set down) and were lured over to the Maiden Lane area on their own. Two little-ish girls moving quickly would be far less noticeable than two girls being directed against their will by an adult in that spot. I still tend to believe that they just went around the fence to the east, however. Less risk, less brush, and, if they were being led or directed, easier. If they went along between the lake and the fence, they likely went by themselves, of their own volition.
You would never notice that you could drive in there from Arbutus, unless you knew it was there. It appeared as a wall of undergrowth, and I only noticed the smashed foliage indicating a vehicle had been there. I went back to investigate, and discovered Maiden Lane. I'm sure others knew about it, but I, as a local who frequents the lake, had no clue.
No, the bikes were not found at "the end" of the trail. The trail is continuous in both directions from where the bikes were found.
As to them being staged, if you came from the east, you would have to walk over a hundred feet with the bikes from Arbutus just to reach the trail (unless you very suspiciously pulled your vehicle down the grassy area to the trail). Then another several hundred feet to the gate, the last several of which you would be visible from the other side of the lake AND you'd never know if someone was going to approach this area from the west at any second.
If you staged the bikes and approached from Maiden Lane, you'd have to get around/over the fence. If you went around the east end of the fence, you'd be hidden until you got to the trail, then you'd be just as vulnerable as the previous example. If you went west along the fence to the jetty/gate, you'd be visible and suspicious, carrying two bikes along a narrow strip on the opposite side of the fence from the trail, between fence and lake, on ground that would be treacherous even w/o bikes. You could toss the bikes over the fence, but then, for them to get over to the gate, you'd need to get over the fence as well, only to move the bikes several feet west, again into view from across the lake.
Remember, if the bikes were found right at the gate, it's visible from across the lake. Obscured, but visible. Pics of LE, etc, from across the lake indicate this very well.
My guess is that, since the dogs tracked the girls from the bikes to the Maiden Lane area, that the bikes were not staged there, but left there by the girls, who then moved to the woods, either by exploring, by being lured, or by being directed under force.
Just judging by what has been said, my impression is that the bikes were found laying on the trail, and since at that time there was no suspicion of foul play, they were leaned on the fence to allow ATV's and/or other LE vehicles and personnel to move through the area easier. By the time Abben arrived, they were not as found. Just my interpretation.
Agreed. You can see that jetty from the parking area. Its kind of the focal point on the lake from over there. Someone moving between lake and fence would be very visible, and very interesting to watch, IMO.
BBM...people who fish Meyer's Lake, other locals, may have better knowledge than I. Neighbors, etc. But someone just passing through town? No effing way, IMO. As for the grassy area, I've never seen a vehicle driven on that besides city maintenance or LE, and the latter only after this incident.
100% agree. Unless they went out on that jetty, and decided to somehow make the walk to the woods from there, which I've discussed above would be treacherous and visible, and would draw attention, IMO, of anyone at the lake that day.
I will get over there hopefully with the camera again. Any other pics ppl want? Keep in mind that the lake level has not recovered from the partial draining, and likely will not this year. BTW, I do have photos of the jetty from the woods, but not of the woods from the jetty. I was there with my kids, and didn't want to drag them out there (or demonstrate that going through that gate was acceptable behavior).
BBM...that bolded part is essentially what I said the moment I heard of all this, and was probably among my very first comments on WS.
Not likely. They would be very visible from across the lake (see all the pics of the area taken from across the lake), and would likely draw attention of anyone at the lake's parking area or docks (i.e., fishermen, etc).
The opposite side of the road has opened, so now you ARE moving by there quickly. At the time of the disappearance, traffic was much slower and the lanes felt much tighter.
Most, if not all, parks in E'dale and Elk Run can be completely viewed from a car on the road. Even most of Meyer's Lake can, except the relatively tiny area in the SE corner, and what is blocked by the island.
Additionally, its one of the few parks that is a "destination" from the trail, and cannot be completely seen from a nearby road.
Keep in mind the video shows them riding for the duration of a second or two, half-block from home, and over a mile from the lake. Its not likely they maintained that pace all the way, even if they tried.
No, the jetty was built up when the lake was drained a few years ago (after this pic). When I first moved here 5-6 yrs ago, the drain was just an opening in the surface of the lake. I think it was 1-2 yrs ago that they built that jetty up, so that it is now always well above the surface. I think that was the point of building it up, to allow easier access to that drain.
I believe the water level on that day is best shown in the pics of LE walking along the shoreline. The area that has NO vegetation, was only recently exposed. Any area that was not under water would have had weeds growing on it.
The drainage pipe, and the jetty, were fully visible from the trail, and from across the lake, at the time of the abduction.
I, too, think it possible that the girls were on Maiden Lane, by their own choosing, when they found trouble. Whether they themselves knew about it before this day, just discovered it while exploring, or where lured over there, is unknown.
