IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[MNDad]

If the girls rode past Casey's on River Forest near Gilbert, would they have been on video? The image of the white van at the pumps shows the houses across the street? If so, would LE keep this secret for any reason? Or should we assume that they didn't go that way?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Fact they have is the timestamp . WItness seeing the girls and getting the time right exactly at that moment to me is more of a a guesstamint not a fact. Or maybe his watch was slow if he even looked at it at that exact moment. Lets see I see 2 girls then I look at my watch right away . Im not diggin on that too much room for error!! Way too much! Just my two pennies :-0


Me luv facts !!

TG made an estimate of the time he saw two bicycles on the trail from the fact that he called his daughter (unrelated) using his cell phone at 12:27 pm. He knew he'd passed the bicycles, ridden up to the gas station and used the restroom before he called his daughter, so he estimated that he passed the bicycles at about 12:20 pm.

If Mr Pahl, the owner of the security camera is correct, the timestamp on the video for 12:11 pm is slow by 8 minutes, according to his US Cellular cell phone. That would place the US Cellular time of the girls on video at 12:19 pm.

Even if TG was off by a few minutes, that left only 7 minutes for him to see the bicycles, ride to the gas station and use the facilities before he called his daughter. Even if it only took him half the time (7 minutes) that it actually took, that only leaves 3.5 minutes.

Too soon for the bicycles to get there ridden by the girls or transported by the perp.

 

[superbee]

Ollipop, do you know any history of Maiden Lane? Why it is in existence, for how long, and who constructed it. I am thinking it may not be well known these days, but could have been to many people years ago when it was constructed. If Maiden Lane plays into the abduction scenario, I am leaning towards at least some local involvement. IMO.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Found it! http://indianolarecordherald.desmoi...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

I'm not convinced he was going to say "1 o'clock" but his wife definitely jumps in with the 3. Their accent isn't that strong but it's just enough different from California that I can't tell if that pause was about to be "1" or if it was more a pause like "uhhh." According to the article below his wife was out delivering newspapers so either she didn't see them or she saw them nearby, but the newspaper delivering might've helped her remember a time frame?

I don't know, MOO and ideas I'm throwing out there.

Here's the other photo and article: http://www.kwqc.com/story/19044405/witness-said-he-saw-missing-iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

I think he definitely said "one" and his wife stepped in to correct him to "three."

Since he showed no sign of surprise or annoyance or puzzlement at being so corrected, my guess is that he wanted to say three but was misspeaking and he did not disagree with his wife's correction.

There was no instant of "oh right, someone told me to say three" or "why the heck are you saying that?"

It looked to me like he definitely agreed with her stepping in with the three.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Sorry if this has already been posted but thankfully the Iowa state fair has backed down and allowed a booth with information about Elizabeth and Lyric's disappearance.

http://thegazette.com/2012/08/07/iowa-state-fair-booth-to-feature-information-on-missing-girls/

I sincerely hope that adults at the fair ensure the safety of the children present and the children are not put in any danger. The state fair is an ideal place for a child to be abducted and I hope parents and law enforcement are vigilant of suspicious behaviour.

The Iowa State Fair may have changed radically from the way it was the last time I visited in 1997 or 1998.

Back then, there were mobs of people (there are always mobs at the fair) but it was definitely a child-friendly event, chock full of family people. Any child in distress immediately generated a cluster of concerned adults offering help.

As I said, the fair may have changed. If it has, that would be a tragedy. It's one of the big annual Iowa events each year and a tradition (the movie State Fair was based on the Iowa State Fair).

For whatever it is worth, the fair board didn't back down. They have not changed their stance on not renting out a booth to the group for Elizabeth and Lyric nor have they changed the policy that only booth holders can pass out information.

Iowa DCI simply announced that they would be hanging posters and handing out flyers from the booth they had already reserved.

There are good, sound reasons for the fair board to stand firm, even though it was unpopular. There are over 700 booth spaces available, they are all rented out and there is a long waiting list of people who want to rent one. Allowing one group to jump the queue would invite a lot of anger and possibly even court cases.

The policy about who can hand out information came about because groups that were very obtrusive used to come to the fair and made people quite uncomfortable with harangues and pressing printed information on them (I know, I was there). Instituting a policy that only booth holders could pass out information meant that only groups that agreed to obey the code of conduct for the fairgrounds could pass out information.

Making an exception for Elizabeth and Lyric would open the doors to such groups again. The Hare Krishnas were bad enough but how about Neo-Nazis or other white supremacist groups? According to the constitution, all groups must be controlled equally or no groups can be controlled.

 

[Jules71]

Are there any cameras at the fire station/police station on Evans & Gilbert?

Which side of Lake Ave do the C's live on?

I don't think the girls would have continued east on Gilbert to the bike trail if they came down Evans.

Maybe they went down Grand where it is rumored their uncle J lives. But if Mr. C says they come down his street and usually turn around at the end, I believe he is referring to the end of Lake Ave, not Gilbert.

I think they may have gone down River Forest turned left on the next major street and then turned right and headed down Evans. Then they crossed the street and went down Lake and cut through the grassy area off of Arbutus. I think it is an excellent possibility that the perp may have entered the path from the lake side of the gate. Then they either walked them along the lake side of the fence back to Maiden Lane or got in the DPB (aka damn paddle boat or creeper boat) and went to that same spot. If a boat in involved I think they would have had to know him.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Copper]

Are there any cameras at the fire station/police station on Evans & Gilbert?

Which side of Lake Ave do the C's live on?

I don't think the girls would have continued east on Gilbert to the bike trail if they came down Evans.

Maybe they went down Grand where it is rumored their uncle J lives. But if Mr. C says they come down his street and usually turn around at the end, I believe he is referring to the end of Lake Ave, not Gilbert.

I think they may have gone down River Forest turned left on the next major street and then turned right and headed down Evans. Then they crossed the street and went down Lake and cut through the grassy area off of Arbutus. I think it is an excellent possibility that the perp may have entered the path from the lake side of the gate. Then they either walked them along the lake side of the fence back to Maiden Lane or got in the DPB (aka damn paddle boat or creeper boat) and went to that same spot. If a boat in involved I think they would have had to know him.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

The C's live on the southwest (bottom-left) corner of Gilbert and Lake. The house has a Lake Avenue address, but the driveway opens onto Gilbert.

 

[GrainneDhu]

RE Jamieinla "blind curve" That would be a great fact to find but I find no sorts ???Only here do I find that so is that a fact or not?? If you can find such an article that would be helpful and post it :-0 .wfc courrier reports and everywhere else too. the same thing.. Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo said he rides the trail often. “I saw the bikes laying on the path and had to swerve to miss them

The blind curve is based on a verified local's report (Ollipop).

Also, the very first Nancy Grace show on the cousins' disappearance had video showing the area and it was quite clear, there is a blind curve, due to the fences and a dip in the ground. So far, that first video clip seems to be the best one for really getting a feel for what the area looks like on the ground rather than the overhead view.

 

[Ollipop]

Ollipop, do you know any history of Maiden Lane? Why it is in existence, for how long, and who constructed it. I am thinking it may not be well known these days, but could have been to many people years ago when it was constructed. If Maiden Lane plays into the abduction scenario, I am leaning towards at least some local involvement. IMO.

I know a realtor who has lived in the area many years, and was hoping to ask him. I saw him Saturday, but didn't get the opportunity. This is also very intriguing to me.

 

[Banshee]

Totally OT and, I'm sure, unrelated:

Jumping out of lurkerdom to post this link:

http://gma.yahoo.com/wisconsin-gunm...-arrested-051737408--abc-news-topstories.html

What an unfortunate coincidence in the name of the gf ! :what:

 

[otto]

I am way behind ... but I was curious about possible routes from the Collins home to the lake gate including the fact that video footage shows the girls cycling west behind the Auction Shop and the possibility that a man watering his lawn on Lake Ave saw the girls on their bikes. These are the most likely routes that I come up with ... open to suggestions.

 

[superbee]

Wow ... I'd never heard of that before ... but now there's a term for people that can't do mathematics! I think my son has that.

Otto, I have it, and I hope things are easier in school for your son than they were for me long ago. Thank you, Sapphire, for mentioning Dyscalculia.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I am wondering if the girls could be hidden underground. In an old air raid shelter in a backyard, perhaps right close by? Did they have those in Iowa?

Oh yes, there are some.

I've seen an old bomb shelter at the University of Iowa (in Iowa City). I don't remember how to get there but I do remember we had to go through the steam tunnels to get there.

I wonder if it is still there? It was weird enough in the late 70s, with the packages of preserved foods from the 1950s still there. For that matter, I wonder if anyone official remembers the old bomb shelter?

And that makes me wonder if there is a bomb shelter or more than one at the University of Northern Iowa in Cedar Falls.

It's possible but I would think it unlikely and a fairly risky place. Even if no one official remembers it, chances are the maintenance staff is still sweeping the floors, etc. That's how it was at the one in Iowa City, anyway. The room itself was obviously not used for anything but the floors weren't dusty.

 

[hollyblue]

http://www.kcrg.com/evansdaledisapp...-Girls-Abducted-from-Evansdale-165302876.html

Well it is being called a "police booth", whatever that is.

Many moons ago, when I was a teen, the State and local LE had a few tables at the end of the beer garden..which was right across from the bandstand and dance location for the kids. Presence for anyone needing them and to keep an eye out for the rowdies. They would also make rounds around the fairway, stables and barns and during the day they would be at the races and in the grandstand. Same with the shows/concerts at night. What was funny was when I got older some people were invited over to main house on the grounds and many of LE would venture over to have their fair share of drinky poos after they were off duty. I always thought this was normal for all fairs?

 

[otto]

I know a realtor who has lived in the area many years, and was hoping to ask him. I saw him Saturday, but didn't get the opportunity. This is also very intriguing to me.

Maiden Lane is labelled on Bing Maps, so it must be on maps in the planning department.

How does the blind curve that you were thinking about relate to the gate?

 

[otto]

The blind curve is based on a verified local's report (Ollipop).

Also, the very first Nancy Grace show on the cousins' disappearance had video showing the area and it was quite clear, there is a blind curve, due to the fences and a dip in the ground. So far, that first video clip seems to be the best one for really getting a feel for what the area looks like on the ground rather than the overhead view.

Do you remember where in the trail it was ... east or west of the gate, at the gate?

 

[Ollipop]

Ollipop, do you know any history of Maiden Lane? Why it is in existence, for how long, and who constructed it. I am thinking it may not be well known these days, but could have been to many people years ago when it was constructed. If Maiden Lane plays into the abduction scenario, I am leaning towards at least some local involvement. IMO.

Found this old map. Overlayed current road map, and it seems to indicate that Maiden Lane pre-dates most of the other roads in Evansdale. There was definitely a road there well before this lake was enlarged to make the highway.

 

[Ollipop]

This aerial photo, from the 60's, shows the early days of bustling Maiden Lane.

 

[Copper]

That is very weird in the one from the 60s. You can see the Lane snaking away from Evans/Arbutus. The sewage station isn't on the Lane at all, it looks like. Looks like that second kinda-street in the 50s pic is where the sewage station is now.

 

[otto]

Thanks to Ollipop for the maps ... I copied them in case the question comes up again ...