IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[Squeeze]

I honestly don't see any delay on the part of LE in looking for the girls as live victims. The first two days of the investigation, yes, they checked the lake with sonar, had divers in and dragged it. They had to; it is much more likely for two children to drown than to be abducted.

But at the very same time, they had over 1000 volunteers search 12 square miles of terrain (under absolutely horrid conditions). They checked the local RSOs. They interviewed the parents, apparently pretty intensively (MCM said that she spent 11 hours that first Saturday being interviewed by LE). They called in DCI and the FBI.

Draining the lake attracted a lot of media attention but it actually took a minimal amount of effort from the investigation. The FBI divers would never have been involved in the investigation if they hadn't been needed for the dives (they're specialists). The guys in kayaks paddling around were firefighters; again, not personnel that would normally be investigating disappearances.

The only LE personnel diverted were an officer to keep an eye on the cordoned off area. That was probably a low ranking patrol officer who would not ordinarily be involved in investigation anyway (disappearances usually go to detectives versus patrol).

LE got the parents' cell phones that first Saturday and started checking out the numbers they found that way.

I think that from sometime around 7 pm 13 July LE started treating this as a two pronged investigation: lost children or abducted children.

Exactly the point I've tried to make several times, only you said it much better!! Just because we were all looking ar the lake because that's where the media attention was, doesnt mean le weren't looking elsewhere. In fact, it probably makes their job easier. I understand that they were following up just today with people who were camping at deerwood park that weekend. And the physics have said that campers may be involved, as in the girls being in one.

 

[NikkiMcD]

Nikki....welcome!*!
The last media- news report I read was dated August 7 and mentioned LEs booth at the fair.

Thank you, New to Websleuths so just learning the ropes. From the Cedar Valley so Evansdale is just right down the street from my home, and have family and close friends that still live there. Just don't want this to go dead and they are forgotten.

 

[SouthernMom]

Pic 1: My mind trying to make sense of all this. Note I'm getting nowhere, but exhausting myself in the process.

Love the MC Escher pic. I feel the same way. Thanks for all of your hard work to post pics and give us a street level view of the area as well as your personal input as a local resident.

 

[CHERIE.T]

:silenced: this is what I don't understand, tomorrow Friday will mark one MONTH since the girls were abducted. One month and LE said no more pressers until there's something new to report.


Why are the parents not holding vigils?

Missing families Imoo should be like Mickey Shunicks family....keeping their missing loved ones face out there!

 

[CHERIE.T]

Thank you, New to Websleuths so just learning the ropes. From the Cedar Valley so Evansdale is just right down the street from my home, and have family and close friends that still live there. Just don't want this to go dead and they are forgotten.

I agree Nikki, the missing girls have to be kept in the forefront.
I think you will definitely find that here at WS.

 

[Squeeze]

Not that I was aware of, but I didn't go that far. When they finally cleared the lake, and officially called it an abduction, is when all the tape I saw went up.

I personally rode through that area on my bike twice prior to anything being roped off. The second time was that saturday night, The 14th, and we were stopped by fbi, asking if we ridden that path the day before (no), but then were allowed to ride through. Earlier in the day, there were many people just doing unorganized searching. Not sure why it roped off.

 

[BethInAK]

I wanted to describe the other abduction attempt from my childhood, because it involved trying to take two girls at once (simply for the sake of continuing to consider various possibilities/probabilities in relation to Lyric and Elizabeth).

Early 80's. My friend and I (both 11 years old), were walking on a sidewalk together about 1pm on a summer afternoon. This was in Ventura, CA. Ventura has a very commercial, very busy, downtown district. We were one street above this district. Cars going by, both directions. Other people walking on the sidewalk across the road. It was sunny and bright, and there were no trees or bushes hiding us from view from anyone driving or walking in the area. Very open location. We were walking with the flow of traffic.

Suddenly, a black car with very dark windows (this was when tinted windows were not the "norm" as they are now) screeches to a stop right beside us. The car was a nice car - if I had to guess now I'd say it looked like a Crown Victoria.

We are startled by the screeching sound. My friend and I had known each other our entire lives, and were more like cousins than friends. The fact that we were so in tune to each other probably saved our lives that day.

The back door on the sidewalk-side of the car flings open, and a GIANT man jumps out very quickly. He is right in front of us. He's wearing a dark, 3 piece suit, and I quickly see 3 more men inside the car, ALL wearing dark, 3 piece suits (and sunglasses). I remember thinking the man who jumped out of the car looked like Bluto from popeye. He SCREAMS, "get in the car! Get in the "f"ing car! NOW!"

Completely stunned, my friend steps towards the man as though she is going to do exactly as he instructs. She was totally in shock. I grabbed her arm and yelled, "No! RUN!" and pulled her in the opposite direction. We run across the road to the other side, but the car screeches and does a U-turn to follow us, so I grab her again, and pull her back in the opposite direction once more, and we run down a street that connects us to that very busy historic/downtown district I mentioned before.

We could hear the cars tires screeching *again*. We ran through downtown, through HOARDS of people, but we were too frightened to stop and ask for help. At least, I was. My friend was in such shock that I think she would have just done whatever I told her, so I held onto her hand and we kept running towards home (which was 1.7 miles away - I just checked it on Googlemaps).

Those men in that car chased us right through downtown. We kept zigging through alleys and tiny little walkways that went through buildings, etc. to try to lose them. But they kept finding us. We were beyond horrified. When a kid is too scared to stop and scream for help in the midst of people....you *know* they are terrified.

Within about 15 minutes, we were getting close to the home of a good friend of ours, whose mom I knew well. My plan was to run to their house. But their car wasn't out front and I was so scared that the car would see us and the men would just grab us off of the family's porch, that we ended up running down an adjacent alleway, instead. We crawled between a fence and a big trash dumpster and crouched there and hid, and cried.

And then there was the black car again. It drove slowly down the alley. My friend wet herself. Then the car must have turned around because it came back again, and drove slowly past us once more, in the opposite direction.

We crouched there and hid for sooooo long. We were too scared to come out because we were sure the car was just around a corner or something, waiting for us. I don't know how long we stayed there, but I know my friend's clothes were dry as we walked home, because she asked me if I could see any wet spots (she was embarassed). We ran most of the way home after that, staying on the busiest streets we could get to.

I think we told our parents, but I don't think the police were ever called. Maybe they thought we were exaggerating or something, I don't know. I can't think of any other reason a parent wouldn't call the cops? My mom doesn't remember it now, so asking her does me no good.

?

This sounds like an absolutely terrifying nightmare.

And so blatant.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Hi. Long time reader, 1st time posting here. I have followed many other missing persons cases and wonder if this abduction could be related to the numerous other cases of young blonde women in the midwest. PI Bill Warner links many of these abductions with travelling road construction projects and 9 of them were abducted on days with 3 in the date. Both these conditions apply to these girls.


http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2...ed-by-a-facebook-predator-cops-have-no-clues/

My problem with Mr Warner's theory is that construction crews, at least in the Midwest where we have only two seasons (winter and Road Construction Season) work 7 days a week, usually 12 hour shifts.

I read an article years ago where a construction boss was interviewed and he said they work the crew for 24 hours the first day to get them "broke in." They are exhausted after that and the schedule is calculated to work them hard enough so they are always exhausted. Otherwise, it would mean they could work more!

There's good money in working road crew in the summer but from friends who did it (to earn money for college), I know they earn every penny of it. It's even harder than walking beans and that's saying something.

I really wonder if this is one of those "more rapes when ice cream sales go up" correlations. It's true that there are more reported rapes when ice cream sales go up but one does not cause the other. Rather both are caused by the arrival of warm weather, when people are more likely to be outdoors and more likely to have their windows open.

The fact is, our nations roads infrastructure is in dire shape. One in every nine bridges in the US is of questionable structural stability! A lot of what looks like road construction is actually just repair, slapping patches on patches to keep the road minimally useable.

So it's not too surprising that if someone is abducted during warm weather, there is probably road construction going on nearby.

 

[MNDad]

big question the girls were spotted @ 12:11 pm ridding away from M LAKE we have all heard this, does everyone know that that spot was just a couple of feet away from where Elizabeth home is .I only bring this up because Grandma say's she let them go @ 11:30 pm and saw them ridding East. That means they came back to the area where they started from and rode past the house West towards River Forest being caught on camera @12:11 pm or 12:19 (?) .There is also a report of a man (TG) ridding around the bikes @ 12:20 pm @ M Lake and then he went to bathroom and made phone call @ 12:27 pm @ M LAKE to his daughter. POINT is that we drove from where the video saw the girls @ 12:11(?) Pm to M LAKE the girls couldn't have got there on the backside of the lake in only 9 or 8 min. Then whats up ?

Also, did anyone hear about Lyric's mom in a car accident over the weekend?

Or Anyone hear about Dan asking for Money for the tips he gave to help the police find his daughter via text message to police department?

Also, was informed by family memeber (name kept secert) that the families got an update over the weekend, has anyone seen any new updates in the Media about what this could be?

MCM and Aunt T were supposedly in a hit and run in Waterloo in the 300 block of fletcher

That has to be rumor about DM wanting to be paid for tips in his own daughter's case. No one is that big of a .

Hadn't heard any weekend updates but really would like to.

 

[MissouriGirl]

I wonder why the girls went down by the lake that day. According to the couple that saw them between 12 and 3, they made it pretty clear that when the girls ride down their street they usually turn right back around in the middle of the road (or at least Elizabeth does, since she seems to ride down their street more often than Lyric, according to the wife).

 

[GrainneDhu]

Is it possible his phone is the one that is off, not the camera?

SBM

He specified that he has a US Cellular phone, which is the same carrier I have a contract with.

I looked on my own phone to see if there are time settings and discovered that while it can be switched between 12 and 24 hour cycles, the time is set automatically.

Then I called US Cellular. According to the service rep I talked to, all US Cellular phones are set automatically each time they ping. And their tower time is constantly checked by the national clock.

 

[MNDad]

I wonder why the girls went down by the lake that day. According to the couple that saw them between 12 and 3, they made it pretty clear that when the girls ride down their street they usually turn right back around in the middle of the road (or at least Elizabeth does, since she seems to ride down their street more often than Lyric, according to the wife).

1) maybe they didn't go down to the lake and kept to their routine.
2) what constitutes the end of the street for turning around? Mr C lives on the corner of lake and Gilbert but his drive faces Gilbert. Did they always turn around on Gilbert or Lake?
3) there is a skatepark a block and a half past Mr C. Is this where they turn around? Is there someone they hoped would be there when they did drive-bys?

 

[Ollipop]

MCM and Aunt T were supposedly in a hit and run in Waterloo in the 300 block of fletcher

That has to be rumor about DM wanting to be paid for tips in his own daughter's case. No one is that big of a .

Hadn't heard any weekend updates but really would like to.

Aye. Those rumors are only the very tip of the iceberg. I think I've managed not to bring them in to this forum thus far, but since I work in a bar a few times/week, I hear plenty.

Facebook is a helluva drug.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I wonder why the girls went down by the lake that day. According to the couple that saw them between 12 and 3, they made it pretty clear that when the girls ride down their street they usually turn right back around in the middle of the road (or at least Elizabeth does, since she seems to ride down their street more often than Lyric, according to the wife).

:seeya::seeya: welcome MissouriGirl!
I'm with you on that one. If riding to the
lake was not a normal thing that the girls usually did,
Why did they go their July 13?

I sound like a broken record but Imoo, the ride
towards the lake was per arranged. :moo:

 

[MissouriGirl]

1) maybe they didn't go down to the lake and kept to their routine.
2) what constitutes the end of the street for turning around? Mr C lives on the corner of lake and Gilbert but his drive faces Gilbert. Did they always turn around on Gilbert or Lake?
3) there is a skatepark a block and a half past Mr C. Is this where they turn around? Is there someone they hoped would be there when they did drive-bus?

I had wondered also if he meant they turn around on Gilbert or Lake Ave...

I had also pondered that maybe when Elizabeth was by herself she generally turned right back around, since they said they see her nearly every day do this and that maybe since she was with Lyric this time, that maybe Lyric wanted to go to the lake or maybe Elizabeth felt braver to go there since she wasn't alone. Or that maybe when she IS with Lyric, this is a normal routine of theirs (thus allowing someone to plan to hide and wait for them?). That's if they were ever even at the lake at all though.

 

[Ollipop]

I wonder why the girls went down by the lake that day. According to the couple that saw them between 12 and 3, they made it pretty clear that when the girls ride down their street they usually turn right back around in the middle of the road (or at least Elizabeth does, since she seems to ride down their street more often than Lyric, according to the wife).

Such an odd observation by the Carpenters. Why, after riding that far, and after likely waiting to cross both Evans AND Gilbert (busy intersection) would you turn around a block later (and just a block from the lake and trail)? Repeatedly. It really confounds me. I wonder if they don't ride up Lake from Arbutus, and turn around before Gilbert.

I think, if we're going to give credence to the Carpenters sighting(s), we have to consider there is a reason for the girls to choose that particular street, from all their options.

 

[Ollipop]

I had wondered also if he meant they turn around on Gilbert or Lake Ave...

I had also pondered that maybe when Elizabeth was by herself she generally turned right back around, since they said they see her nearly every day do this and that maybe since she was with Lyric this time, that maybe Lyric wanted to go to the lake or maybe Elizabeth felt braver to go there since she wasn't alone. Or that maybe when she IS with Lyric, this is a normal routine of theirs (thus allowing someone to plan to hide and wait for them?). That's if they were ever even at the lake at all though.

I really can't (and don't) see many bikers turning around on Gilbert. Its a well-marked bike route, meaning the sidewalks are wide and there is signage for bikes on each side. Additionally, its busy by E'dale standards, and turning around there would mean turning around in a busy road (with sidewalks designed for bikes) a block from a fairly busy intersection, all directly in front of the police station.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Such an odd observation by the Carpenters. Why, after riding that far, and after likely waiting to cross both Evans AND Gilbert (busy intersection) would you turn around a block later (and just a block from the lake and trail)? Repeatedly. It really confounds me. I wonder if they don't ride up Lake from Arbutus, and turn around before Gilbert.

I think, if we're going to give credence to the Carpenters sighting(s), we have to consider there is a reason for the girls to choose that particular street, from all their options.

This^, and the 12-3 watering thing still bugs me. Do they not own sprinklers? Did he mean that he was in and out from 12-3 moving his sprinkler around?

Maybe he just wanted to be helpful and gave info to LE that he THOUGHT was accurate but possibly a bit exaggerated?

 

[GrainneDhu]

:silenced: this is what I don't understand, tomorrow Friday will mark one MONTH since the girls were abducted. One month and LE said no more pressers until there's something new to report.

Why are the parents not holding vigils?

Missing families Imoo should be like Mickey Shunicks family....keeping their missing loved ones face out there!

They had that rally at the lake, where they had people write messages to the girls and throw flowers in the water.

They had a birthday party for Elizabeth with cupcakes.

They've had a couple prayer vigils.

They've made a bunch of appearances with various media outlets.

Seems to me that they have done a lot of stuff for a single month. Keep in mind that Heather Collins is on hold from necessary surgery for her pacemaker and DM has legal problems he is forced to attend to.

And both families have other children, whose needs aren't going away.

They may not be in the national media so much but the families continue to do a lot.

 

[Ollipop]

I really can't (and don't) see many bikers turning around on Gilbert. Its a well-marked bike route, meaning the sidewalks are wide and there is signage for bikes on each side. Additionally, its busy by E'dale standards, and turning around there would mean turning around in a busy road (with sidewalks designed for bikes) a block from a fairly busy intersection, all directly in front of the police station.

What I mean by this is, if your going for a ride that far but not headed to the lake, and you knew you were going to turn around, I see no reason to cross Gilbert first. It's the natural spot to turn, as its the only stop sign on Evans Rd besides Lafayette far to the north.