IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[otto]

Thinking about Pickton is what led me to ask about pig/hog farms near Waterloo. In an article i read about him, it stated that pigs will eat every part of a body, which makes it an almost perfect way to dispose of a corpse. JMO

I certainly have nothing to even remotely indicate that a pig farm is involved in any way, but I got tired of thinking about bikes and paddleboats so started thinking in other directions.

My understanding is that corn farms are all over Iowa, and if there are trees and water, there is most likely poison ivy. I think pig farms are the last thing people need to worry about in terms of abductors ... but maybe.

I suspect that the girls were grabbed in the parking lot across the street from home, that they were driven to Maiden Lane, where their bikes were ditched, and from there they vanished. I suspect that they will be found in the corn fields, as they were taken when the corn was tall ... but anything is possible.

 

[daisynae]

Thinking about Pickton is what led me to ask about pig/hog farms near Waterloo. In an article i read about him, it stated that pigs will eat every part of a body, which makes it an almost perfect way to dispose of a corpse. JMO

I certainly have nothing to even remotely indicate that a pig farm is involved in any way, but I got tired of thinking about bikes and paddleboats so started thinking in other directions.

Lord no, the one who took them will be the only pig around!:moo:

 

[otto]

I have only read this first page of the new thread so I don't know what was written in the previous one. I'll have to go back and finish that one in a few minutes.

Where do they go from there? I have no idea. I don't know what happened so it's only a hypothesis. I do have some hypotheses of where they might have been taken but I don't want to share those right now. I will say that I don't think it was the vacant house on the lake or any other vacant house in Evansdale. I think the perp was craftier than that. I don't think he's going to stay in the area that he abducted the girls. He got what he wanted - the girls. Now, he wants to keep them and finish what he had planned. Staying only a few yards away in an empty house on the lake would be like a bulls-eye. I don't think there's any way that he did that. I don't think he went to any other homes for sale in Evansdale, either. It's too risky. Some perps do like to take risks, but they take them while commiting a crime (in this case the abduction). It's doubtful that a risk would be taken immediately after one gets what one is after. A robber may rob a bank in the middle of the day on a busy Friday. That's risky. However, I don't believe he would leave the bank, walk next door to a 7-11, and buy a drink with the stolen cash from the bank. That would be reckless. This perp took these girls in the middle of the day and got away with it. He tooks risks. As I said, I think he's crafty. I don't think he's reckless.

Devious

 

[sadnpod]

Hi considering!

A perp actually did almost exactly what you said in my small town. Robbed the bank and went next door to a car lot and bought his getaway car with the cash from the bank... yeah (duh) they caught him.

But, as Otto pointed out.. this perp is devious, no way did they stick around after they got what they wanted.

 

[otto]

There are hog farms (CAFOs) all over Iowa. You'll often hear that there are more pigs than people here.

I do occasionally still see old-fashioned pig pens but generally, the buildings where the pigs are kept aren't that accessible.

Are hog faermers more inclined to abduct children in the nearby town or ... I'm inclined to think that even pig farmers were minding their own business when the children were abducted.

Pigs and cows are processed on conveyor belts ... not that accessible.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

If we shift the times a little and the girls were last seen at about 12:11, bikes were seen at about 12:24, what does that tell us?

It suggests to me that:

1. the girls were grabbed behind the Auction Shop and their bikes were immediately ditched, or
2. the girls rode like the wind, walked through the gate, and were along the shore when the cyclist rode by.

If they were grabbed behind the Auction Shop and their bikes were ditched, then someone familiar with the area had a plan before grabbing the girls - possibly something that festered in his head for a long time. If the bikes were ditched after driving a short distance down Maiden Lane, either there were two perps, one to watch the girls while the other ditched the bikes, or there was one perp and a weapon (like a stun gun).

If the girls rode like the wind and went immediately to the shore on the SE tip of the lake, then it had to be pre-planned, in my opinion. Given that Lyric was in trouble for being late only four days earlier, the girls knew that the grandmother had an appointment, and they'd poured their juice for quick sip & dash trips, I'm doubtful that they rode their bikes to the lake. It seems like the less likely of the two options.

Either way, it seems that there was a plan in place, that the girls were targets (opportunistic or otherwise), and clearly there was nothing they could do to get away.

Here's a video of a presser on July 20th. Right at 3:00, Abben is asked by a reporter, "Do you have the girls on camera?" Abben's response seems pretty specific at 12:15 (not 12:11 or 12:19).
http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...mix_50efbb90-d2d1-11e1-9378-0019bb2963f4.html
Even stretching the approximate 12:20 to a slightly more "accurate" time of 12:24 only gives 9 minutes.

 

[CN2Souls]

Is it Possible?
If I remember Correctly,

The girls were together for 5 days that we know of from WC as she was watching them at Elizabeth’s house while MMC was at her new job.

The girls probably rode their bikes every day from that Monday until the Friday the 13 when they were abducted.

More than likely, they rode around the 2-to3 block area as WC stated.

IF person/persons were looking to abduct a child, they could have been watching them all week.

There are several buildings and I think a Bar near the Collins home.

The Auction House camera points in to area near the Collins home

I wonder if LE looked at all of the video at the auction house for that week to see if there was someone around watching the girls
or the same vehicle many times in the video canvassing the area..?

:waitasec:

 

[Reverie]

If we shift the times a little and the girls were last seen at about 12:11, bikes were seen at about 12:24, what does that tell us?

It suggests to me that:

1. the girls were grabbed behind the Auction Shop and their bikes were immediately ditched, or
2. the girls rode like the wind, walked through the gate, and were along the shore when the cyclist rode by.

If they were grabbed behind the Auction Shop and their bikes were ditched, then someone familiar with the area had a plan before grabbing the girls - possibly something that festered in his head for a long time. If the bikes were ditched after driving a short distance down Maiden Lane, either there were two perps, one to watch the girls while the other ditched the bikes, or there was one perp and a weapon (like a stun gun).

If the girls rode like the wind and went immediately to the shore on the SE tip of the lake, then it had to be pre-planned, in my opinion. Given that Lyric was in trouble for being late only four days earlier, the girls knew that the grandmother had an appointment, and they'd poured their juice for quick sip & dash trips, I'm doubtful that they rode their bikes to the lake. It seems like the less likely of the two options.

Either way, it seems that there was a plan in place, that the girls were targets (opportunistic or otherwise), and clearly there was nothing they could do to get away.

It is not out of the question for the girls to have been taken from the lot across the street, possibly even several doors down from the Collins' home for that matter. Serial killer Richard Evonitz drove through quiet neighborhoods looking for unsuspecting young female victims, typically just when school let out in the afternoon. He would approach them, ask if their parents were home, then get along side them and put a gun to their back to force them into the back seat. Ugh. The most astonishing thing was that he took them from their own front yard!

One of his victims had poured herself a beverage and she had left it on the counter (and was never to return); much like how Lyric and Elizabeth had left the V8 out for their trips and sips.

With the recent discussion of the risks that perps may take, this seems pertinent; that the girls may have been abducted much closer to the family home than I'd originally thought.

 

[Elley Mae]

Is it Possible?
If I remember Correctly,

The girls were together for 5 days that we know of from WC as she was watching them at Elizabeth’s house while MMC was at her new job.

The girls probably rode their bikes every day from that Monday until the Friday the 13 when they were abducted.

More than likely, they rode around the 2-to3 block area as WC stated.

IF person/persons were looking to abduct a child, they could have been watching them all week.

There are several buildings and I think a Bar near the Collins home.

The Auction House camera points in to area near the Collins home

I wonder if LE looked at all of the video at the action house for that week to see if there was someone around watching the girls
or the same vehicle many times in the video canvassing the area..?

:waitasec:

bbm
I did not know that the house they were staying at was just across the street from where the video was taken, With that said, does it seem strange that they were going so fast in the video? What I am saying is it seems to me that they were going past the house to see if someone was there or if granny was out looking for them. IDk just seemed weird to see them peddling like they were actually in a hurry yet they were in front of the house they were staying.

 

[CN2Souls]

bbm
I did not know that the house they were staying at was just across the street from where the video was taken, With that said, does it seem strange that they were going so fast in the video? What I am saying is it seems to me that they were going past the house to see if someone was there or if granny was out looking for them. IDk just seemed weird to see them peddling like they were actually in a hurry yet they were in front of the house they were staying.

Thank you, I have always wondered if the girls had seen WC looking out the window at that time (12:15) and then thought that,

that would have been a kind-of "check-in"

They may have thought they had time to ride to the lake, but only if they hurried.

 

[CN2Souls]

This may be a really stupid question that has already been ask, please forgive me if it has.
I know that even if a cell phone has no service you can still call 911 on them.
I noticed A tower at the end of Phillips Ave by the river. Just off River Forest Dr.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO would such a phone Ping towers?

 

[Elley Mae]

I was a bike rider (big time) back in the day. We would leave the house and not return till dinner and after that it was be home before the street lights come on. The girls seemed to be on a mission in that video that day. I also wandered if the bikes were dusted for prints, but if what we have heard/read it seems that they were on the ground then picked up (moved from the trail) and leaned against the fence. The purse on the other side of the fence has me baffled, I wonder if it was thrown over by the perp.I also have the feeling that the girls had been traveling farther then Granny said, I know that I would over ride any boundaries given to me and I am thinking that granny was covering her own butt. jmo

 

[CN2Souls]

I was a bike rider (big time) back in the day. We would leave the house and not return till dinner and after that it was be home before the street lights come on. The girls seemed to be on a mission in that video that day. I also wandered if the bikes were dusted for prints, but if what we have heard/read it seems that they were on the ground then picked up (moved from the trail) and leaned against the fence. The purse on the other side of the fence has me baffled, I wonder if it was thrown over by the perp.I also have the feeling that the girls had been traveling farther then Granny said, I know that I would over ride any boundaries given to me and I am thinking that granny was covering her own butt. jmo

I believe Abben said the bikes were Processed...

Along with the purse....

I was looking for the link where Abben said "he would not discuss what ALL was found with the bikes."

Anyone remember that...

 

[TxLady2]

Speaking of teaching children and hopefully they will do what they're told... I have to relate an experience with my oldest boy. He was in 1st grade, and I usually picked him up from school, but on one day I was a little behind at work and couldn't leave. A very nice lady and customer offered to pick him up for me and bring him back to my workplace. I had taught my boys not to ever accept a ride from a stranger, of course. So the lady gets to the school and tells the teacher she is there to pick my son up for me, with my permission. The teacher knows her very well, she's very respected in the community, so thought it was okay. My son refused to go.... he stood outside the door and planted his feet and said "NO, I will wait for my mama." He did exactly what I told him to do. While I knew the lady very well... he didn't. She was a stranger to him, so he would not go with her. I guess he listened after all!! When the teacher called me, I was able to take off by then, so it all turned out okay. I did praise him for listening and doing what I taught him.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I believe Abben said the bikes were Processed...

Along with the purse....

I was looking for the link where Abben said "he would not discuss what ALL was found with the bikes."

Anyone remember that...

I hope you can find a link - so many stories have been updated, revised, etc., that it's getting frustrating trying to go back to the earlier stories to confirm something! JMO

 

[CN2Souls]

I hope you can find a link - so many stories have been updated, revised, etc., that it's getting frustrating trying to go back to the earlier stories to confirm something! JMO

Boy is that ever true!!!!

I think maybe now that I am looking for it for over 2 hours, that maybe it was in reference to the purse and stuff.

However, When they are riding past the video, it sure looks like they have something either on their back or handle bars, but it is so fast no tell...

 

[Marilynilpa]

This may be a really stupid question that has already been ask, please forgive me if it has.
I know that even if a cell phone has no service you can still call 911 on them.
I noticed A tower at the end of Phillips Ave by the river. Just off River Forest Dr.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO would such a phone Ping towers?

Your question isn't stupid, IMO. On one of the previous threads some discussions took place about the cell phone and whether it pinged. IIRC, a cell phone will not ping if it does not have service, but 911 still works.

ETA: I found this article: http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5409997_do-police-track-cell-phones.html

"The phone does not have to be actively engaged in a call to be connected to cells, but it must be turned on; phones in the "off" position or those with no batteries do not register with the cellular carrier's network and cannot be tracked."

 

[GrainneDhu]

Are there hog farms in/near the Waterloo area?

I'm not sleuthing anyone, nor do I even have anyone in mind, I was just curious.

TIA

Depends on what you mean by hog farm and what you mean by near the Waterloo area.

There aren't any hog farms in Waterloo although for all I know there may be some pet pot bellied pigs.

If by hog farm, you mean a diversified farm that raises crops and livestock including a few hogs, then probably so.

If by hog farm you mean one of those hog confinement facilities, there is one under construction 4 miles from Waterloo city limits with three buildings.

http://wcfcourier.com/business/loca...cle_24d5a66c-ba9b-508c-8f6e-9a8f1e4400b1.html

 

[Marilynilpa]

Depends on what you mean by hog farm and what you mean by near the Waterloo area.

There aren't any hog farms in Waterloo although for all I know there may be some pet pot bellied pigs.

If by hog farm, you mean a diversified farm that raises crops and livestock including a few hogs, then probably so.

If by hog farm you mean one of those hog confinement facilities, there is one under construction 4 miles from Waterloo city limits with three buildings.

http://wcfcourier.com/business/loca...cle_24d5a66c-ba9b-508c-8f6e-9a8f1e4400b1.html

Thanks for your answer. I think maybe I got a little too off-topic with this one, I blame it on chronic pain, lack of sleep and frustration in not being able to figure out what happened to these sweet little girls!

 

[Marilynilpa]

My understanding is that corn farms are all over Iowa, and if there are trees and water, there is most likely poison ivy. I think pig farms are the last thing people need to worry about in terms of abductors ... but maybe.

SBM, BBM

At this point, I have no idea WHO we need to worry about in terms of abductors. But again, I did not say one word about a pig farmer being involved, in fact I specifically stated I was not sleuthing anyone. I was just curious because my dark mind led me to wonder about a pig farm vis-a-vis disposal of a body.

I'm done with this topic now!