IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20

[hambirg]

Looking at the Evansdale Strip Mall, we see a lot of vacant space. I wonder if any of the vacant space was under construction - whether any new businesses are moving in. Could someone have regularly been at the site and had a casual conversation with the girls? Other than the shop on the corner (separate building) where alcohol is sold, would any of the other businesses have attracted someone fairly regularly during that day when Elizabeth was riding her bike around the loop?

I was very curious about that large vacant space in the corner. On Google from the street view it looked to be a pawn shop. I don't know if that is more or less current than your info of it being vacant.

Just from my personal experience, pawn shops seem to attract a seedy crowd. There is one not to far from where I live and I see lots of tweaker scrapper types there. I don't know if this one is still there and attracts those types, but it was just a thought.

I didn't know there was a boys and girls club there. That might be something a non-local creeper might be drawn to. . .kind of like a school or park, where kids are known to hang out.
MOO

ETA. . .there is also a building that is west on Brovan from the auction house that raises my interest. it looks to be vacant. I saw it on a real estate sight as being for lease. It seems like it would be set up for some type of shop business. I'd be interested to know if it's been leased, especially around the time the girls went missing.

 

[Sunlight]

So...when did the abduction begin? Did it begin:

Prior to July 13th (girls being groomed, internet, park, pool, etc.)
While they were biking around the buildings and parking lots around 11:30-12:23
While they were on Gilbert between 12:30 and 1:00
Did they go to the parking lot bathrooms and playground Gilbert and Elmer?
While they were just biking at the bike trail after 1:00

Who was where when...

 

[Simp]

I have said this before and I feel the need to say it again. This is MOO!!
If Dan backed out of the plea deal, I see no need to abduct the children. I understand he had probably already given info to make the plea deal, but if he backed out then I would think that meant he wasn't going to testify against the people he had narced on. If he was threatened then it worked and he didn't follow through. Why oh why oh why would someone abduct the girls out of revenge on Dan?? Now I could be wrong of course but it just makes no sense to me. And if he had been threatened concerning the plea and then the girls were taken, I would THINK he would be divulging that info!! Hope that makes sense.

 

[SailorMoon]

Maybe someone is making sure he doesn't decide to take that plea deal again. I don't know, I can't get past that and the other things that are just plain hinky to me.

 

[nursebeeme]

So...when did the abduction begin? Did it begin:

Prior to July 13th (girls being groomed, internet, park, pool, etc.)
While they were biking around the buildings and parking lots around 11:30-12:23
While they were on Gilbert between 12:30 and 1:00
Did they go to the parking lot bathrooms and playground Gilbert and Elmer?
While they were just biking at the bike trail after 1:00

Who was where when...

I personally think it was one of the bolded ones. As for who was where when idk or have any personal speculation on that. We just don't know enough. I hope that LE has a pretty good idea and are just waiting on the right lead or tip to crack the case wide open and find these girls.

 

[Sunlight]

I have said this before and I feel the need to say it again. This is MOO!!
If Dan backed out of the plea deal, I see no need to abduct the children. I understand he had probably already given info to make the plea deal, but if he backed out then I would think that meant he wasn't going to testify against the people he had narced on. If he was threatened then it worked and he didn't follow through. Why oh why oh why would someone abduct the girls out of revenge on Dan?? Now I could be wrong of course but it just makes no sense to me. And if he had been threatened concerning the plea and then the girls were taken, I would THINK he would be divulging that info!! Hope that makes sense.

Well, maybe because he "wasn't ready to go to jail yet" meant he was gonna narc out a bunch more people, and the abduction was a don't you dare narc me/us out or we'll kill members of your family, type of thing. MOO

ETA: Of course, we don't know if anyone has been killed yet.

 

[nursebeeme]

peeps: we also have to be very, very careful how we are discussing the parents of the girls. No one has been named a suspect. You can discuss the charges but please do not speculate on parental involvement. Thanks so much.

 

[watcher9]

I thought I remember reading that Lyric and Elizabeth did not normally ride the "route" together. Lyric just happened to come over that day because her mom started a new job.
If that is the case, how could someone be setting the two of them up together?
I still think it was a spur of the moment abduction at the lake where the bikes were found.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have said this before and I feel the need to say it again. This is MOO!!
If Dan backed out of the plea deal, I see no need to abduct the children. I understand he had probably already given info to make the plea deal, but if he backed out then I would think that meant he wasn't going to testify against the people he had narced on. If he was threatened then it worked and he didn't follow through. Why oh why oh why would someone abduct the girls out of revenge on Dan?? Now I could be wrong of course but it just makes no sense to me. And if he had been threatened concerning the plea and then the girls were taken, I would THINK he would be divulging that info!! Hope that makes sense.

Simp, you make great sense.

I am not a lawyer; this is how I understand the process. I may well be wrong.

Yes, Dan had to tell his lawyer what he had to offer for a plea deal. That is done by his lawyer making what is called a proffer to the prosecutor: a statement outlining the hypothetical information the client might be able to give and to testify to if he got a plea deal.

Proffers are not admissible in court and it cannot be used as reasonable suspicion to justify a search warrant. The information given is thirdhand and only specific enough to get the prosecutor interested. Plea deals are made contingent upon the full cooperation of the person being given the plea deal, so if that person does not or cannot deliver on what their lawyer proffered, the deal is off.

If Dan had backed out of the plea deal 16 July (the Monday after Lyric and Elizabeth disappeared), that would be as suspicious as all get out. But that isn't what happened. Dan backed out the day before Elizabeth and Lyric disappeared, so a possible motive to abduct or hurt Lyric disappeared.

 

[Reverie]

Undercover agents have criminal records and drug histories...?

Maybe ex-con informants? :moo:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Well, maybe because he "wasn't ready to go to jail yet" meant he was gonna narc out a bunch more people, and the abduction was a don't you dare narc me/us out or we'll kill members of your family, type of thing. MOO

ETA: Of course, we don't know if anyone has been killed yet.

Strictly in my own opinion, I don't think DM was important enough to anyone in the drug trade to keep alive.

The way the message "don't narc us out" is usually delivered is by killing that person. I'm not saying that threatening or kidnapping the child of a potential witness doesn't ever happen because I'm sure it has. Just that it's not the usual way things go down.

 

[Reverie]

I thought I remember reading that Lyric and Elizabeth did not normally ride the "route" together. Lyric just happened to come over that day because her mom started a new job.
If that is the case, how could someone be setting the two of them up together?
I still think it was a spur of the moment abduction at the lake where the bikes were found.

IIRC, Lyric's mom had been working for about a week, give or take. That is how there COULD be enough time for a crafty perp to set a snare for the girls.

I appreciate your theory and it may turn out to be what happened.

My THEORY is that perp/s from a nearby town, and drugs, were involved.:moo::moo::moo: and :moo:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Undercover agents have criminal records and drug histories...?

Both of which can be routinely faked by undercover LE.

I don't think for one second the Morrisseys are WORKING undercover...but the girls may have been taken for as yet unseen motivations involving a far bigger criminal picture.

I wonder there is an undercover investigation that has been ongoing, even before the girls went missing, surrounding the drug market in that town. If there wasn't, there should have been - meth and related crime seems to be taking over parts of Iowa.

Imagine two conflicting investigations from two conflicting agencies. One must take priority.

It would explain why the girls seem to have slipped off the radar where LE is concerned...one investigation is deemed more important and far reaching than the other and has priority.

It could also be a reason why the girls were taken in the first place...distraction.

Thinking out loud here...trying to think outside the square.

 

[nursebeeme]

peeps: we also have to be very, very careful how we are discussing the parents of the girls. No one has been named a suspect. You can discuss the charges but please do not speculate on parental involvement. Thanks so much.

bumping this up..... I do not want to go down this road again peeps

 

[CHERIE.T]

I thought I remember reading that Lyric and Elizabeth did not normally ride the "route" together. Lyric just happened to come over that day because her mom started a new job.
If that is the case, how could someone be setting the two of them up together?
I still think it was a spur of the moment abduction at the lake where the bikes were found.

That's what I remember reading. One of the girls rode that particular route before and one had not. Then being typical kids..... where one cousin went the other followed on 7/13.

I agree about them being set up together. I dont think that was the case. imoo

 

[Marilynilpa]

I really need to proof read my heartfelt posts somedays...oh well you get the point. thxs.

Having to catch up again today but wanted to tell Dr. Know? that I thought your post was nice, and I'm sorry if my response to it made you think otherwise. I just thought it was funny because the things you need to get past are the same pesky details I need to get past!

 

[SouthernMom]

So sad to see that the girls are not home yet. Sending up prayers and hoping that the girls will be back soon.

 

[foxbluff]

OLD link from July 24, 2012...thought you might enjoy taking a second look given today's discussion.
http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile2/54550385-218/cook-girls-morrissey-iowa.html.csp

<snipped>
David Finkelhor, director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire,... said it makes sense to look into whether the abduction is linked to pending drug charges against Daniel Morrissey, Lyric&#8217;s father, a habitual felon facing decades in prison on charges of conspiracy to manufacture methamphetamines. In other cases, children have been kidnapped by rivals out of retaliation or held hostage to prevent incriminating testimony, he said.
"If they do think the dynamics are primarily around the drug cases, investigators might be more likely to think the girls are alive. They lose their value if they have been murdered," he said.

Court records show Morrissey, 36, appeared in court for a change of plea hearing in one of his drug cases the day before the kids vanished but did not plead guilty. Prosecutor Brad Walz said such hearings usually indicate a guilty plea is forthcoming, but declined comment on why Morrissey did not enter one.

David Mullin, a defense attorney for Jason Stolfus, who was arrested with Morrissey and faces the same charges, said the prosecutor told him Morrissey&#8217;s plea agreement "fell through." He said police reports show Morrissey implicated his client in crimes after both were arrested in December. But he said Stolfus would not have a motive to take the children because he has been offered a favorable plea deal in which he would likely avoid prison. <sniped>

 

[Simp]

Nurse, I just want to say you are a wonderful mod!!! Your patience with us is greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!

 

[SapphireSteel]

Thanks for that fox.

Ok so we have plea deals going on already.

A plea deal usually occurs when there is bigger fish to fry.

A minor player gets a plea bargain in exchange for information about the major players.

Does this imply there was ALREADY an undercover investigation ongoing in Evansdale, with a drug cartel as its main focus?

An undercover investigation which may be at risk from a secondary investigation?

Again, thinking out loud.