IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[Wondergirl]

You have two bodies to dump.

Are you going to dump them in a place you know hunters are going to visit, or a game reserve where no hunters ever visit?

I know which I'd choose...so why didn't the perp?

One explanation I can think of is, he was in a hurry and the game reserve was too far to drive to.

Which means he's working to a timeline, which means he's possibly working an alibi.

They may already have questioned him.

All my opinion.

:sick:

After viewing the recovery location picture with the 2 white sheets ( ) first, I have to say it very regretfully reminds me of Victoria Stafford's murder.

Secondly, I don't think the bodies were dumped. It strikes me as the crime scene.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Of those 5 RSOs all but 2 have residency restrictions.

Those 2 must just like to live around their own kind...

Places willing to rent to sex offenders are often very cheap. It's very difficult for sex offenders (even without residency restrictions) to find a job, so they tend to be concentrated in places that have low rent.

 

[hollyblue]

I hope you are right! I agree.... what we have been told does not make me confident enough to ID them. They have to have more!

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Maybe the perp/s left something like a flyer of the girls...or newspaper article? Even a note...or something that would definitely tell the family or LE more than likely it was them. But, the wording of LE saying "bodies" vs skeletal remains (and LE is usually very careful with their words) tells me they may have been identifiable from just their bodies. IMO

 

[FrayedKnot]

Places willing to rent to sex offenders are often very cheap. It's very difficult for sex offenders (even without residency restrictions) to find a job, so they tend to be concentrated in places that have low rent.

And a sort of a "release network". If a guy knows a guy who knows a guy, and he's got a place in this complex, then word gets around that they rent to RSOs and other violent felons.

Business is booming via the pervo grapevine.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thank you dr., for the alternate veiwpoint pic.

It is a good trek from turnout to bodies. From this view, I am less attached to the idea that the bodies were meant for the river.

Hard to see teraine, but it appears the topography is such that the perp(s) may have actually had an easier time carrying bodies (if this was a dump site and not the murder site) along the bank of the river along the bend and then toss them down the slope towars the heavy brush near edge of the woods.

Hmm

Thank you again for this pic I hadn't seen.

I'm not seeing any really steep slopes but that may be my problem.

Just from looking at the course of the Wapsipinicon in that area suggests to me that the area is fairly flat. Rivers change course more easily in relatively flat ground than they do among slopes. Just looking at the map, then, I'd guess the area to be fairly flat.

 

[tiredblondy]

Oh my, still so many questions. I'm glad the family will have some type of closure but so sad for the outcome!

I can't imagine the terror these girls went through. I'm so tired of losing our children to evil!!!!

 

[rolltidemom]

and......? Respectfully, what does this mean?

someone asked or mentioned how long it had been since the girls went missing.

 

[callyn]

someone asked or mentioned how long it had been since the girls went missing.

Oh. I missed that question. thanks. Since there was no quote with the post, I couldn't figure it out.

ETA: There was a quote with that post, but no question was asked about the time the girls had been missing. Oh well, doesn't really matter does it.

 

[borndem]

Hi all, I've lurked here for years and several cases but I don't think I've ever posted...I have lived in Iowa my entire life. I see a lot of you posting that you do not think the bodies were hidden very well or were left out in the open. I just want to clarify that in July when the girls went missing, those trees would have been so thick with leaves that you would never have been able to see in like you can in the recent photos. Our forests are dense with a lot of underbrush and debris(branches and what not) During the summer months the grass they are laying in would have been waist high on an adult. You could literally be standing right next to something and not be able to see it. Although many, many people enjoy parks like this in Iowa, most hikers would stick to some kind of trail (even if it was primitive) and not go off the beaten path. Hunters are different, they are specifically walking off the beaten path in order to scare up whatever it is they are hunting and now that it has frosted, the grass is laying down so they would have been able to see.

I hope that helps you guys from out of the area picture what it might have been like a bit more.

:welcome6:

Suzikay1 !!!

We're happy you're here!

:thewave:
​

 

[nikkiw319]

Fwiw, we tubed down the Iowa river the weekend of July 21st during an annual tubing trip. It was the lowest I have ever seen the river. We spent much of our time walking on rocks in water not even deep enough to cover the rocks. On average it was about six inches deep and I could always touch bottom in my tube. They are not the same river but run the same path pretty close to one another. I cannot imagine the Wapsie was much higher (as I know the cedar was extremely low as well) making it hard for them to have washed up.


I in no way believe they would up there from the lake. There are barriers set up that we're effectively in place when the lake was drained making it near impossible that both girls would have gotten though the gate. Then into the cedar, then another river, then the Wapsie. Not to mention north. I believe they were taken there on land.

 

[matou]

After viewing the recovery location picture with the 2 white sheets ( ) first, I have to say it very regretfully reminds me of Victoria Stafford's murder.

Secondly, I don't think the bodies were dumped. It strikes me as the crime scene.

Two rapists, one for Lyric and one for Elizabeth? I think they could have died there too, Wondergirl. The distance between the two white sheets makes me think their bodies were somewhat intact so why dump them so far from each other? Two perps, IMO.

 

[borndem]

I hadn't thought of wrapping them in pink, but that's a nice idea.

O/T in a way - when my 102 year old grandma died a few years back, she was buried in a beautiful pink casket. Pink was her favorite color, and is just seemed so appropriate for her.

I, too, expect to see a lot of people wearing pink when these girls are buried.

bbm

O/T - Wow, Marilynilpa -- My 98-year-old grandmother was also buried in a pink casket, pink being her favorite color, too. It was beautiful and made us all feel good for her. (How 'bout that?!)

 

[GrainneDhu]

Abben said they asked other counties to check their parks but this was off of the road so he is unable to say if it was searched. Seriously? Come on now.... if you are looking for two missing girls would you really only search by roads?! :headbang:

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Abben has no jurisdiction in Bremer County. He could (and did) ask but it was up to the various Bremer County jurisdictions as to how much searching they were going to do.

With the economic woes we are in, most counties are really hurting financially.

For instance, in my own county, there are lots of places to search (it's 90 miles away) but there has also been a bridge out close to my property for over two years. Give more money to LE to conduct searches or spend it on replacing a bridge? I'm hoping they vote some day to replace the darn bridge.

 

[Dr. Know?]

This is just interesting considering it's the same area as the girls were found in. A murder 5 years ago where the murderer threw out the gun he used in two killings over pot. I'm reading comments on fb (there's a new one btw too) that it was the 7 Bridges area where the gun was found in the Wapsipinicon River. Just interesting is all. From Waterloo too, I believe.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/mu...cle_30854c24-02ff-11e0-beaa-001cc4c002e0.html

eta, he's in prison, I checked. Life it says, no parole.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yep...I know it is far-fetched, but until LE has has addressed or confirmed that there is or is not a POI, I am going with this! They have just stated "hunters" located the bodies! I don't expect them to elaborate, but I am also open-minded and know that can mean anything!

RNER, yesterday there were a lot of hunters out. It was the last day of deer season one for shotgun, so anyone who had tags for season one and hadn't gotten a deer was out. I know there were at least 8 to 10 hunters in the square mile around my property just judging from the sounds of gunshots.

I told my husband last September that I thought the girls' bodies would be found at the beginning of season one for shotgun, the end of season one for shotgun, the beginning of season two for shotgun or the end of season two for shotgun. Those are the four deer season days with the most hunters out unless the weather is totally awful but that hasn't been the case this year.

Frankly, I personally would not go out looking for a body on any of those four days because I don't want to end up with a Darwin Award. I would wait until today or Friday, the days in between the two shotgun seasons.

The vast majority of hunters are sensible people who follow safety guidelines like it was a religion but there's always a few out there who are idjits. Just as there are always a few idjits driving in the first snow season of the year or letting off firecrackers during a drought summer around the fourth of July. <eyes rolling>

 

[carbuff]

Thanks everybody for taking time to explain the direction and flow of the rivers. It sounds unlikely that the river had anything to do with it, even though the apparent location of the bodies is so close to a dry watercourse.

Very odd.

As for the Iowa jungle -- I believe somebody could have sat down to have a picnic three feet from the bodies and not noticed anything. New England is the same way. An area like that would have been impassible in July from the blackberry, bittersweet, wild roses, etc. -- and that's without fertile soil. In a rich river bottom like that, it'd be ten times thicker, I'm sure.

Off topic: if anybody tries to bury me in a pink coffin, I swear I will come back to haunt them.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Very good point. Also it's possible they were killed more recently than when they first went missing. But yeah, the bodies would be scattered had they been there any length of time.

Not to be gruesome but it all depends.

All of Iowa is mixed coyote/fox territory. If the local territory is held by fox, then I wouldn't expect the bodies to be scattered and maybe not even subject at all to animal scavenging.

My sense, just from looking at the photos, is that it is more likely to be fox territory than coyote territory. Coyote prefer more open areas and they particularly prefer places with a lot of human presence (we're so generous about feeding them). Fox prefer areas with heavier cover and not so much human presence.

The two species do coincide over most terrain and the balance of their territories tends to go back and forth. For instance, I had a lovely coyote queen living in my backyard for 6 years before she disappeared (I think she probably died; she was a grand age for a coyote). I expected one of her offspring to take up the territory but a fine red fox has moved in instead. I know where there are at least two vixens close by, so this spring, maybe cubs.

I think there's a 50/50 chance that the bodies would have been subject to heavy animal scavenging.

 

[GrainneDhu]

What's his role though? Is he just the spokesman for LE or is he a lead investigator? If it's not in his portfolio to interview people, why would he go out of his way to do so?

His title is "chief deputy."

My guess is that he is spokesperson for the Blackhawk County Sheriff's department and he may also be coordinating the investigation. As you say, his role wouldn't be to go out and interrogate witnesses. Particularly since it was not in his jurisdiction.

 

[GrainneDhu]

What a sad ending. I watched the PC. SMH. I feel almost angry about it -- is it just me or was it a bit offputting? Not only no real information, seemed a lack of wanting to know (ie, was the area searched before), etc. Or is this just his normal demeanor (Abben)?

And after all this time I find the term "bodies" odd. I would think skeletal remains would be what was found. RIP sweet angels. I sure hope the ME can shed light on this case.

I am hoping that LE is being as considerate of the families as possible.

That would include being careful with their language and choice of terms so as not to contribute to the nightmare images the families probably already have in their heads. Using unduly graphic terms in public would not advance the investigation and it could hurt the families, so it's not worth it.

 

[SapphireSteel]

When Jessica Ridgeway was found, they referred to "remains".

I too find the use of "bodies" to be significant. It is not often you hear it.