IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[cluciano63]

Should we believe that some clothing was found in the area, as first reported by Jane Valez Mitchell, but not believe that the bodies were identifiable? Why accept only half of the information provided by the source? There is no other source for some clothing being found ... at least I haven't seen one.

I am just waiting to hear from LE, that's all. I don't think that the leap that the JVM show made about the idea that they were likely to have been refrigerated, is one that should be given any weight at this time. And again, JMO. I have trouble with any info coming directly from JVM or NG shows.

 

[LucyOso]

Where and when would this have happened?

They were last seen at 12:30 at the entrance to Meyers Lake, and their bikes were discovered on the path at Meyers Lake at about 4 PM. The family was searching that location from about 2 PM onward. When would there have been an accident and where would this have happened?

Those are great questions, Otto. I am sure if we knew all the details in the case we could tell you where and when it happened. IMOO, I admit I am not a expert sleuther such as you, but, I am just trying to look at other angles. An accident could occur in a split second. A child on foot who is hit by an adult on a bicycle can be fatally injured without outward signs. I have seen very similar cases in health care. The girls were on a bike path at some point. The visibility on the bike path wasn't great. An adult riding a bike or driving, listening to an IPod, thinking about work, spacing out could easily not be able to avoid an accident. Children dart out in front of all types of vehicles rather frequently. They also were on a road. Kids often leave their bikes somewhere and explore. In children that age they can wander fast and far in a short amount of time. While I agree the time line is very close, accidents can happen in seconds. If someone hit one of the girls, maybe an attempt was made to go to a hospital. If one died in the vehicle, someone could easily panic and the situation could get out of control.If you have a better theory, please advise, I am a novice here.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I followed this case very loosely, especially after the first couple weeks, and maybe it's because I felt from the beginning that the perp is someone these girls know. I also believed they were alive until now.

For some reason I think this is a retaliation/retribution crime - what bothers me about a stranger abduction is that there were two of them, and they weren't preschoolers. If you're a perp and want to prey on two girls of that age, and the one girl could have even looked a bit older, then there is always that risk that they run off and later identify the person. There's also the risk that one of them resists. The risk of getting caught is much higher with two. And I can't picture two perps, but that's just me.

It will be interesting to see what more information comes out. What was the father in court for by the way? I forget what was going on with him.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I agree. They should back off and let the parents handle it. If EC's parents want to pay for their child's funeral then they may request any donations go to another organization of their choosing. EC's parents have been very gracious with the press, the public, and even the perp(s) and I imagine they would handle this situation in the same manner.

Emotions are running high...and the friends need to check themselves, imo. God knows this whole family has enough to deal with. The poor Gma, I hope she is getting the needed support as well.
JMO

BBM

Me, too, I have had her in my thoughts often. And if family friends are correct in saying that there may be some strain in the family, I imagine that makes it all the more terrible for Wylma.

I can certainly understand Drew and Heather wanting to do something special to commemorate Lizzie's life. She was their daughter, and they should be able to focus solely on her now if they want to. Up until now, everything was a joint effort on behalf of Lyric and Lizzie. Now it's time for both sides to grieve in the way they see fit, IMO.

 

[iSleuth]

I feel so sad, for these two girls. God Bless Lyric and Elizabeth. I followed this case from July 13th and had voiced and read every page here all along the way. Even though my job hours make it difficult to post very much at all lately. I happened to not be working on Wed night so I was home and watching TV when the announcement of this discovery came on and the press conference immediately followed. !!!! I couldn't believe it - and that I was even at home at that time. Anyway. I have not been abe to stop thinking about them. Poor dearhearts. I feel horrible that they suffered.

:-( there is no emoticon on that board that can symbolize my feelings.

I did have a few thoughts theories JMO of course and tyi for allowing me to share them.

My feeling re. D's plea deal and his associates may have easily played a part in this. As i hypothetically see it : he could have gotten a threat...don't snitch or.....we will hurt your family/child. ANd he didn't....and so they still took BOTH girls as an insurance policy- making sure he did not rat out particulars - partners, distributors- I ( don't know that they did get murdered that very day- but we will know that eventually) I think whomever had them...held them captive the while...and somehow either D did rat people out...or maybe LE figured more and more out and certain info was confirmed...and so...they killed them. :-(
awful thought. terrible people meth is a terrible drug.

I was thinking about why and when they were dumped there then ..now. If that is true that they were dumped there- and there is another few crimes scenes. This again is JMOO

DO hunters have bags that could carry the girls that they could carry with them during those legal hunting weeks? Say ...they had them someplace else...( I do not think that they were skeletons or that they had been there very long) and the perp blackmailer /killers wanted to...needed to find a place and mode to do so.

Maybe as it was last days of the season it was one of the last opportunities to get to this area...and after that it would be ...desolate...and snow season. Maybe as hunters found them...maybe hunters or people posing as hunters disposed of them there. Placing them apart possibly two diff... people carrying bags. I don't know. Just thinking.

I m sorry for the families but truly feel the message was for one family -
my heart goes out to everyone in this forum like me
praying for these girls from the hours they went missing.

:therethere:

 

[Marilynilpa]

Those are great questions, Otto. I am sure if we knew all the details in the case we could tell you where and when it happened. IMOO, I admit I am not a expert sleuther such as you, but, I am just trying to look at other angles. An accident could occur in a split second. A child on foot who is hit by an adult on a bicycle can be fatally injured without outward signs. I have seen very similar cases in health care. The girls were on a bike path at some point. The visibility on the bike path wasn't great. An adult riding a bike or driving, listening to an IPod, thinking about work, spacing out could easily not be able to avoid an accident. Children dart out in front of all types of vehicles rather frequently. They also were on a road. Kids often leave their bikes somewhere and explore. In children that age they can wander fast and far in a short amount of time. While I agree the time line is very close, accidents can happen in seconds. If someone hit one of the girls, maybe an attempt was made to go to a hospital. If one died in the vehicle, someone could easily panic and the situation could get out of control.If you have a better theory, please advise, I am a novice here.

BBM

At this point, all any of us have are theories. And we're all entitled to voice our theories, so please continue to do so. We don't all have to agree. I know there are many who share my particular theory, and many more who do not. That's how it is on WS, which is why I enjoy it here so much.

 

[Foxfire]

My understanding, at this time, is that two hunters were in the area and they accidentally stumbled across the bodies of the two children. According to the news reports, they were identifiable, some clothing was present, and it appears to be a body dump rather than the location where the children were murdered.

They were last seen at 12:30 at the entrance to Meyers Lake, and their bikes were discovered on the path at Meyers Lake at about 4 PM. The family was searching that location from about 2 PM onward. When would there have been an accident and where would this have happened?

RE: My understanding, at this time, is that two hunters were in the area and they accidentally stumbled across the bodies of the two children


Imo, the hunters were slowly still hunting through the woods, observing tracks & other signs when the remains were located. Fields, river bottoms, and marshes are prime areas for still hunting. I have no doubt that this is how it likely played out, as was reported. Whether they accidentally happened upon this location, I don't know. From a spiritual aspect, I would prefer to believe that they were guided there by the victims for revelation and to insure eventual justice..
I am very curious as to how it was quickly ruled as a body dumping area.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

There has been so little info released, I don't understand the harm in supposition. There has been no evidence supplied to support any of our theories...and no evidence supplied to discredit them either. We are all merely guessing. And I think everyone has done an outstanding job of trying to piece this mystery together. I respect all opinions on this matter.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I am just waiting to hear from LE, that's all. I don't think that the leap that the JVM show made about the idea that they were likely to have been refrigerated, is one that should be given any weight at this time. And again, JMO. I have trouble with any info coming directly from JVM or NG shows.

Ollipop, who is related by marriage to the family, stated that the girls were identified by their clothing. I put much more credence in that statement than in anything I'd ever see on JVM and/or NG.

The frozen or refrigerated comment, IMO, was a bid for sensationalism (or should I say "bombshell news"?) that both shows seem to thrive on. I find it deplorable, which is why I quit watching those shows quite a long time ago.

 

[Bootsctr]

I just can't get this song out of my mind . . . .

"Seven Bridges Road"...By The Eagles - YouTube

Wow! Just Wow! Thank you.

 

[SapphireSteel]

RE: My understanding, at this time, is that two hunters were in the area and they accidentally stumbled across the bodies of the two children


Imo, the hunters were slowly still hunting through the woods, observing tracks & other signs when the remains were located. Fields, river bottoms, and marshes are prime areas for still hunting. I have no doubt that this is how it likely played out, as was reported. Whether they accidentally happened upon this location, I don't know. From a spiritual aspect, I would prefer to believe that they were guided there by the victims to insure eventual justice..
I am very curious as to how it was quickly ruled as a body dumping area.

Someone said in a statement that the hunters could easily have walked within 5 feet of the girls and not even known.

It does indeed sound like divine intervention that they were found.

I'll try to find the link.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Those are great questions, Otto. I am sure if we knew all the details in the case we could tell you where and when it happened. IMOO, I admit I am not a expert sleuther such as you, but, I am just trying to look at other angles. An accident could occur in a split second. A child on foot who is hit by an adult on a bicycle can be fatally injured without outward signs. I have seen very similar cases in health care. The girls were on a bike path at some point. The visibility on the bike path wasn't great. An adult riding a bike or driving, listening to an IPod, thinking about work, spacing out could easily not be able to avoid an accident. Children dart out in front of all types of vehicles rather frequently. They also were on a road. Kids often leave their bikes somewhere and explore. In children that age they can wander fast and far in a short amount of time. While I agree the time line is very close, accidents can happen in seconds. If someone hit one of the girls, maybe an attempt was made to go to a hospital. If one died in the vehicle, someone could easily panic and the situation could get out of control.If you have a better theory, please advise, I am a novice here.

LucyOso, I agree that it's possible that there was an accident and the person responsible panicked. I personally don't think that is what happened but based on the information released so far, it's as good a theory as my own (I believe this was a crime of opportunity).

The first possibility that comes to my mind in an accident scenario is a closed skull injury, caused by falling onto pavement. Such injuries can be fatal without leaving much if any blood.

I think if this was triggered by an accident, the person responsible will have been behaving oddly and possibly making veiled hints to confidantes.

Huh, something just occurred to me. It's possible that this was both some type of sexual assault and an accident. If the perp wanted to molest a child and tried to lure one of the girls away from the other, then one girl said something like "you better go away or I'll tell" the perp may have struck out in panic of being revealed.

 

[Pinkhammer]

I don't think that "frozen" is the only explanation for the girls being easily identified after five months.

This is the only reference I have seen to "frozen":

"VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Rita Cosby, investigative journalist, I got chills when Jon just said that these bodies had been kept somewhere, and then when they were put there in this wildlife park, they were easily identifiable. I mean, it`s horrifying to think that they were kept in some -- it implies that they were possibly kept in some kind of refrigeration or something that preserved them."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1212/06/ijvm.01.html

Velez and Cosby are notable in the sleuthing community for giving out false information and jumping to conclusions. They are like Ashley Banfield who caused indirectly the death of an innocent man in the Elizabeth Smart cas.

JMHO

 

[SapphireSteel]

I stumbled across this, apologies if already known -

Jennifer Lancaster, Department of Natural Resources law enforcement supervisor for Northeast Iowa, said DNR conservation officers have been involved with the recovery, but they, like all involved officers from all agencies, have been instructed not to comment on the specific location, which is being investigated as a crime scene.

Dear God. Does that mean they think the murders occured right there?

That indicates the girls were indeed alive, until recently...and my initial feeling could be correct, that they were walked in.:sick:

This is just awful to contemplate, I cannot imagine how LE must be feeling.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_394b71f6-3f2c-11e2-8ae9-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Pinkhammer]

Ollipop, who is related by marriage to the family, stated that the girls were identified by their clothing. I put much more credence in that statement than in anything I'd ever see on JVM and/or NG.

The frozen or refrigerated comment, IMO, was a bid for sensationalism (or should I say "bombshell news"?) that both shows seem to thrive on. I find it deplorable, which is why I quit watching those shows quite a long time ago.

We have caught them in so many sensationalized exaggerations in the past. Like you, I ignore them and their "breaking news" in the "blah-blah case."

:what:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Ollipop, who is related by marriage to the family, stated that the girls were identified by their clothing. I put much more credence in that statement than in anything I'd ever see on JVM and/or NG.

The frozen or refrigerated comment, IMO, was a bid for sensationalism (or should I say "bombshell news"?) that both shows seem to thrive on. I find it deplorable, which is why I quit watching those shows quite a long time ago.

Marilyn, you said it so much better than I did.

The refrigerated comment was sensationalistic, I just couldn't put my finger on it. It seems unlikely in the extreme to me because whoever did this is obviously taking pains not to be caught. Keeping two bodies in a refrigerator or freezer for five months would be the opposite of taking pains not to be caught. It just doesn't fit with everything else I know about this crime (and I have no insider info, everything I know is from msm or WS).

 

[Bootsctr]

Fate of missing cousins resonates with Evelyn Miller's family

http://www.kwwl.com/story/20282792/...-cousins-resonates-with-evelyn-millers-family

Thank you. Heartbreaking, but much hope that Lyric's and Elizabeth's murders will be solved. Somewhere out there there is a LE detective or detectives, that will live, eat and sleep the cousins' case until they bring the guilty one to justice.

 

[GrainneDhu]

We have caught them in so many sensationalized exaggerations in the past. Like you, I ignore them and their "breaking news" in the "blah-blah case."

:what:

I think oceanblueeyes is the one who coined the term "bombfizzle" for NG's frequently way over-hyped and out of date news.

That says it all for me.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Found it.

Even if it had been checked, it would have been difficult to find the bodies, Thompson said.

“It’s pretty rough up there,” he said. “The location of where those bodies were found, if those hunters had moved five feet either direction, they wouldn’t have seen them.”

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_6f1dc2ea-40bf-11e2-9db0-0019bb2963f4.html

Also someone on Twitter just said the autopsies are completed, FWIW.

 

[mck16]

Velez and Cosby are notable in the sleuthing community for giving out false information and jumping to conclusions. They are like Ashley Banfield who caused indirectly the death of an innocent man in the Elizabeth Smart cas.
JMHO

:what: Can you elaborate. I did not know this. tia