IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[otto]

We still don't know if the girls laid in someone's freezer for 100 days.

Unless you have seen COD or autopsy results somewhere?

That's the Jane Valez Mitchell theory ... that the girls were dumped there and that they must have been in a freezer since the time that they were abducted. Other than Jane's imagination, is there any factual information that the girls were in a freezer?

I have heard that the girls were likely killed shortly after they were abducted and that they were reduced to bones ... which gives me enough information to conclude that the girls were taken directly to 7 Bridges Park, murdered, and left there.

 

[otto]

Everything in this case hangs off how the girls died.

I am uncomfortable in assuming the motive was sexual. So far I have seen nothing that would indicate that to me in this particular case.

There are too many other factors involved for me assume this is just your run of the mill abduction, rape and murder.

For a start, we haven't heard one word from LE to look out for a sexual predator. Compare that to Jessica Ridgway.

If two young girls were not abducted by a sexual predator, what other logical explanation is there for them being abducted outside Elizabeth's house, at Meyers Lake, or somewhere in between in Evansdale, and shortly therefter, murdered 20 miles away?

In the Jessica Ridgeway case, DNA from Jessica's case was connected with a sexual assault at the park ... therefore it was a sexual predator. We don't have that DNA connection here.

Evansdale police have said that they are interviewing sexual offenders, so that suggests to me that they believe the abduction and murder could be sexually motivated, and it's also enough to tell the public that there could be a relationship between sexual predators and the murdered children.

"Officers will follow up on tips, interview family and friends and search homes in the southern two-thirds of Evansdale, he said. Police are contacting known sex offenders in the area to learn about their whereabouts on Friday and are looking at other possibilities."

July 16, 2012
http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/o...cle_1ea3f86e-cea7-11e1-9586-001a4bcf887a.html

"Sheriff's Offices Getting Access to Database of Sex Offenders' Photos

Drew had a printout of all the sex offenders in the state who have not kept authorities up-to-date on their whereabouts as the law requires.

"He wanted to share that information with them," Thompson said. "It was something that we hoped they could pass around and share with their officers."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_83908d4d-9a49-56ab-889f-0ee013986400.html

"Authorities have been interviewing family, friends and registered sex offenders who live in the area."

Dec 7, 2012
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...-resumes-for-missing-cousins-iowa-police-say/

 

[ozazure]

It sounds like the person that you refereced is a sexual predator and that at least one of his victims was known to him through his associations. It's possible that the same thing happened here. Perhaps Drew knows someone and that person is also a sexual predator. The common theme in the case you reference is that of a sexual predator, not revenge, and I suspect that this case is the same. Perhaps it's a neighbor that knows some of the parents and who is also a sexual predator.

I don't think it would need to be one of the father's direct associates - a 7 degrees of separation type deal. He would have no idea who it was if this is the case. But probably multiple people know what happened and the person who actually did it could be from anywhere.

I am not married to this theory, I just don't think it can be dismissed that the drugs and involvement in trials can be put aside. I have no firm ideas on any of this, did they get to the lake, which sighting were accurate and so on ...Like SapphireSteele wrote, there is a lot hanging in air. But I don't think evidence of sexual assault would rule out that it was a revenge and/or a message. No sexual assault would tip the scales for me to some tangent existing between the girls and the perp.

Targeted randomly or for a reason by someone outside their family is bad news for everyone else's kids as well. I guess the "best" thing for the wider community would be it was someone well known to the girls, decreasing the risk for others and also increasing the odds of an arrest. Warnings or not my kids would be on total lockdown. Oh hang on they already are :/

 

[otto]

Indeed.

Police Chief Lee Burke on Jessica's body being found -

Our focus has changed from the search for Jessica to a mission of justice for Jessica," Westminster Police Chief Lee Birk said. "We realize there is a predator at large in our community."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...irl-jessica-ridgeway-authorities-confirm?lite

Sheriff Tony Thomspon, on the other hand, said -

This discovery doesn’t end this investigation, it just begins a new chapter,” said Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson.

He said the development gives authorities the ability to “draw conclusions off what we already know, and some of the people we already talked to and likely open up additional avenues for us to pursue
http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_6f1dc2ea-40bf-11e2-9db0-0019bb2963f4.html

Compare the two.

Completely different language, tone, and implication.

:cow:

There was a DNA match between Jessica's backpack and the woman that was sexually assaulted in the park near Austin's house, so obviously police knew, before there was an arrest, that the abductor was a sexual predator.

 

[SapphireSteel]

If two young girls were not abducted by a sexual predator, what other logical explanation is there for them being abducted outside Elizabeth's house, at Meyers Lake, or somewhere in between in Evansdale, and shortly therefter, murdered 20 miles away?

In the Jessica Ridgeway case, DNA from Jessica's case was connected with a sexual assault at the park ... therefore it was a sexual predator. We don't have that DNA connection here.

Evansdale police have said that they are interviewing sexual offenders, so that suggests to me that they believe the abduction and murder could be sexually motivated, and it's also enough to tell the public that there could be a relationship between sexual predators and the murdered children.

"Officers will follow up on tips, interview family and friends and search homes in the southern two-thirds of Evansdale, he said. Police are contacting known sex offenders in the area to learn about their whereabouts on Friday and are looking at other possibilities."

July 16, 2012
http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/o...cle_1ea3f86e-cea7-11e1-9586-001a4bcf887a.html

"Sheriff's Offices Getting Access to Database of Sex Offenders' Photos

Drew had a printout of all the sex offenders in the state who have not kept authorities up-to-date on their whereabouts as the law requires.

"He wanted to share that information with them," Thompson said. "It was something that we hoped they could pass around and share with their officers."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_83908d4d-9a49-56ab-889f-0ee013986400.html

"Authorities have been interviewing family, friends and registered sex offenders who live in the area."

Dec 7, 2012
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...-resumes-for-missing-cousins-iowa-police-say/

There are many, many logical explanations possible. We just don't know what they are. Usually it boils down to one motive, no matter which way you dice it. That motive is PROFIT.

The perp profited from this crime somehow. If he didn't profit sexually, there must have been another payoff.

The RSO angle is coming from Drew.

The "family, friends and RSO" angle is coming from LE.

This tells me that they still aren't happy with the family and friends, either.

 

[SapphireSteel]

That's the Jane Valez Mitchell theory ... that the girls were dumped there and that they must have been in a freezer since the time that they were abducted. Other than Jane's imagination, is there any factual information that the girls were in a freezer?

I have heard that the girls were likely killed shortly after they were abducted and that they were reduced to bones ... which gives me enough information to conclude that the girls were taken directly to 7 Bridges Park, murdered, and left there.

There has been no factual information anywhere that I know of.

:dunno:

 

[threecrazykids]

With sexual predators, children are abducted and murdered shortly after the abduction - usually within a couple of hours. That's probably what happened here. I can't think of anyone other than a sexual predator that would abduct two young girls and leave them 20 miles away in an area where they would either not be found, or it would be a stroke of luck that they were found. What other type of person would do that?

With what we know right now I tend to agree with you on this. I think that if this was suppose to be a "message" to the family in regards to drugs/plea deals etc, these girls would NOT have been hidden the way they were. They would have been left where someone was sure to find them, and quickly.

I am not saying there isn't some familial connection...maybe even just a family acquaintance, neighbor, co worker, etc...but the way the girls were hidden doesn't scream "here's my warning on the plea deal!" to me. Now...if the girls are found to be shot execution style, no sexual assault etc...then of course my opinion would change...but the hiding of the bodies doesn't indicate they were sending a message (in my opinion).:moo:

 

[otto]

There are many, many logical explanations possible. We just don't know what they are. Usually it boils down to one motive, no matter which way you dice it. That motive is PROFIT.

The perp profited from this crime somehow. If he didn't profit sexually, there must have been another payoff.

The RSO angle is coming from Drew.

The "family, friends and RSO" angle is coming from LE.

This tells me that they still aren't happy with the family and friends, either.

The police were looking at sexual predators within a week of the girl's abductions. I doubt that police were taking directions from Drew.

Police are re-interviewing family, friends and sex offenders, which is the same thing they did when the girls were abducted. They're meeting with everyone again to see if anything is different now that the children have been found. I don't think that this means police are happy or unhappy with friends, family, or sex offenders. It's more likely that this is standard procedure when there is a new development in the case. Finding the bodies is a new development.

I think that police believe the perp will be found in one of those groups: friends, family, sexual predators. Drug addicts, meth addicts, meth dealers and drug arrests are not mentioned in that list ... not when the girls were abducted, and not now after the girls were found. That tells me that police are not looking for a drug connection to the abduction.

 

[otto]

There has been no factual information anywhere that I know of.

:dunno:

Heather mentioned bones, and I think it was at about 15:30m in some linked video that they were killed shortly after they were abducted (bones) ... so I'm ready to accept those two sources as meaning that the bodies were skeletonized after 145 days near the river bank. Wasn't it something like 112 days until skeletonization if they were in that location since July 13?

They wouldn't be skeletonized if they'd been kept in a freezer.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I haven't been able to come up with a logical connection between Elizabeth, her home and drugs. This abduction is connected only with Elizabeth's house. Lyric was a guest at her cousin's house, which is in a different city than where she lived. Her parents lived elsewhere, with Misty either in a halfway house or living at her mother's house. Some people have tried to connect Lyric's father with drugs and a drug related abduction, but that doesn't make any sense. Surely there were easier ways to abduct just Lyric if she was the target, and surely it would have seemed more effective to abduct the child that lived with the father than the child that lived with a grandparent.

What sort of drug connection is there to Elizabeth and her house?

Elizabeth's house was Lyric's house too, up until one month before their abduction. While Misty was in prison, then in a halfway house, Lyric lived with Elizabeth, Heather and Drew. Misty just got released from Federal custody on 5/30. The kidnapping was 7/13. So Lyric had only lived elsewhere for 6 weeks. It wasn't exactly like she was "visiting a cousin in another city." It was like she was returning to the home she knew better than any other -- just a few miles away.

 

[otto]

With what we know right now I tend to agree with you on this. I think that if this was suppose to be a "message" to the family in regards to drugs/plea deals etc, these girls would NOT have been hidden the way they were. They would have been left where someone was sure to find them, and quickly.

I am not saying there isn't some familial connection...maybe even just a family acquaintance, neighbor, co worker, etc...but the way the girls were hidden doesn't scream "here's my warning on the plea deal!" to me. Now...if the girls are found to be shot execution style, no sexual assault etc...then of course my opinion would change...but the hiding of the bodies doesn't indicate they were sending a message (in my opinion).:moo:

Not only is the "warning" anything but a warning, but it seems too elaborate for an angry drughead ... not sure that makes sense, but I mean ... the drughead grabs girls and bikes, or somehow lures them to the remote end of the leech infested lake drainage pipe, either put their bikes at that drainage pipe or made sure that the girls were very relaxed being with him and forgot even the purse, drove them to 7 Bridges County Park either willingly or through control, and that's where they were found ... all by an angry drug head that is not a sexual predator?

Maiden Lane is one of the absolutes, in my opinion, simply because it's pretty much the only way to get to the drainage pipe location with a truck or 4WD and be unseen.

 

[otto]

Elizabeth's house was Lyric's house too, up until one month before their abduction. While Misty was in prison, then in a halfway house, Lyric lived with Elizabeth, Heather and Drew. Misty just got released from Federal custody on 5/30. The kidnapping was 7/14. So Lyric had only lived elsewhere for 6 weeks. It wasn't exactly like she was "visiting a cousin in another city." It was like she was returning to the home she knew better than any other -- just a few miles away.

I thought I read that Lyric lived with her grandmother, that Wylma was the legal custodian of Lyric for at least 9 months prior to the abduction. I don't think Lyric was returning home when she visited the Collin's home.

I haven't looked for a link, but this is probably what I remembered

Posted by GrainneDhu
"In 2004 (when MCM was convicted), Lyric would have been... three years old. Roughly. She stayed with the Collinses while her mother was in prison and halfway house (about 18 months) and then her legal custody was transferred to Wylma Cook. So she would have been about 4.5 years old."

Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 - Page 38 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Posted by Jules
"You can see on here that at one time Elizabeth's mom Heather Collins had temporary custody of Lyric until 2007 and Grandma Wylma Cook had temp custody of Lyric's brother. We talked about this in the first thread."

Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #3 - Page 26 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


This link might have some information: https://www.iowacourts.state.ia.us/

 

[JaimeInLA]

I thought I read that Lyric lived with her grandmother, that Wylma was the legal custodian of Lyric for at least 9 months prior to the abduction. I don't think Lyric was returning home when she visited the Collin's home.

I'm almost positive that she lived with Heather. That is why her bike was still stored at Heather's house. She had just moved away 6 weeks ago.

 

[ozazure]

With what we know right now I tend to agree with you on this. I think that if this was suppose to be a "message" to the family in regards to drugs/plea deals etc, these girls would NOT have been hidden the way they were. They would have been left where someone was sure to find them, and quickly.

I am not saying there isn't some familial connection...maybe even just a family acquaintance, neighbor, co worker, etc...but the way the girls were hidden doesn't scream "here's my warning on the plea deal!" to me. Now...if the girls are found to be shot execution style, no sexual assault etc...then of course my opinion would change...but the hiding of the bodies doesn't indicate they were sending a message (in my opinion).:moo:

Prue Bird's body has never been recovered. It's not like if they pinch your pet and the dog's head needs to show up on the front door step for you to realise someone did something evil and sadistic vs the dog getting out and lost ... the absolute devastation of your child vanishing is enough and a sober warning to everyone else who is in the victim's position. And just because that is enough, it doesn't mean they do not do more for other sick reasons. People who do such evil are not subject to any logic we can identify. Kill and dump where there are no witnesses may be the goal vs the bodies being found to boost your message.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I thought I read that Lyric lived with her grandmother, that Wylma was the legal custodian of Lyric for at least 9 months prior to the abduction. I don't think Lyric was returning home when she visited the Collin's home.

I haven't looked for a link, but this is probably what I remembered"

"Originally Posted by GrainneDhu
In 2004 (when MCM was convicted), Lyric would have been... three years old. Roughly.

She stayed with the Collinses while her mother was in prison and halfway house (about 18 months) and then her legal custody was transferred to Wylma Cook.

So she would have been about 4.5 years old."

Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 - Page 38 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Posted by Jules
"You can see on here that at one time Elizabeth's mom Heather Collins had temporary custody of Lyric until 2007 and Grandma Wylma Cook had temp custody of Lyric's brother. We talked about this in the first thread."

Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #3 - Page 26 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

This link might have some information: https://www.iowacourts.state.ia.us/

First, this is a completely different time period. Misty was BACK in the halfway house AGAIN, until 5/30/2012. During that time, Lyric lived with Heather. Second, legal custody is different from physical custody. Legal custody just means Wylma had the right to make schooling and medical decisions for Lyric. Physical custody is whom Lyric lived with.

 

[nikkiw319]

As far as I know, lyric had not been living with heather and drew in the last few years since heathers Health had gone downhill. I could be wrong and I don't have a link for clarification but I don't think she'd been at their house in a while.

 

[cindersoot]

Darn, I see there is no new updates.

 

[otto]

First, this is a completely different time period. Misty was BACK in the halfway house AGAIN, until 5/30/2012. During that time, Lyric lived with Heather. Second, legal custody is different from physical custody. Legal custody just means Wylma had the right to make schooling and medical decisions for Lyric. Physical custody is whom Lyric lived with.

How can we find out if Wylma had full custody, or legal custody. I did read on earlier threads that Jane Valez Mitchell reported that Wylma had legal custody, but I also recall that Lyric lived with Wilma.

 

[otto]

Prue Bird's body has never been recovered. It's not like if they pinch your pet and the dog's head needs to show up on the front door step for you to realise someone did something evil and sadistic vs the dog getting out and lost ... the absolute devastation of your child vanishing is enough and a sober warning to everyone else who is in the victim's position. And just because that is enough, it doesn't mean they do not do more for other sick reasons. People who do such evil are not subject to any logic we can identify. Kill and dump where there are no witnesses may be the goal vs the bodies being found to boost your message.

That is most likely because he is first a sexual predator, and sometimes he preyed on children he met through an association with their parents. As a sexual predator, he would have an MO like a predator, like the perp in this case. If he was a hit man, he would have the MO of a hitman. This does not seem to have a hitman MO.

 

[otto]

O/T ... My daughter is landing in Honolulu in 11 minutes. I heard on the radio that Obama went there today too. I wonder if she'll bump into him. She bumped into Jonny Depp in a music shop in Switzerland one day, leaned in asked him if he was who she thought he was ... she said he's a nice guy.