IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

[SapphireSteel]

If police waited a week to decide that it was an abduction, why were the FBI already involved and on site by July 15?

It's fairly clear to me that what we got told, and what was actually going on, were two different things.

Also FBI involvement is routine in missing child cases, as they have far more resources than local LE.

 

[foxbluff]

If police waited a week to decide that it was an abduction, why were the FBI already involved and on site by July 15?

IMO, that's an interesting observation. And, IMHO, it's to the credit of LE that they were exploring more than one possibility that early in the case.

Another example IMHO of LE not feeling the need to "feed to the public" everything they're thinking, would be them not having officially changed the status of this case to a homicide after finding the remains of these precious little girls.

 

[otto]

It's fairly clear to me that what we got told, and what was actually going on, were two different things.

Also FBI involvement is routine in missing child cases, as they have far more resources than local LE.

Why would FBI be involved if it was not considered an abduction?

 

[threecrazykids]

Why would FBI be involved if it was not considered an abduction?

Good question...for LE. Vague messages to the public/media have been their MO from the beginning. They weren't (and still aren't) giving anything up. :rocker:

They may not have anything. They may have all but one teeny little piece. They may have more than they need, but already have their perp locked up. They may KNOW but simply can't prove it.

We simply don't know...and may never know.

But you make a great point...why? If they truly believed it was a drowning, would they still need all the FBI resources involved?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Why would FBI be involved if it was not considered an abduction?

Lyric would be considered an "at risk" child due to factors in her life and as a result her disappearance would automatically be escalated.

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/documents/NCMEC_Model_Policy_Child.pdf

 

[NWLady]

The girls were never confirmed to have actually got to the lake though...following this theory they should have preserved half of Evansdale.

Exactly! Thank you Sapphire Steel regarding - The girls were never confirmed to have actually got to the lake.

This is in reponse to Otto, your post about law enforcement and what they tell us. I totally agree that LE can tell us anything and everything they want no matter what their reasoning is. They also said it was the girls in that surveillance video, but was it really? Who knows?

Has it even been confirmed that the two bikes at the lake were those of the girls?

In reading thru all the links and articles and looking at all the videos again, it's very obvious that Black Hawk County Sheriff Abben and FBI both had conflicting facts/stories/statments regarding this case.

 

[Dr. Know?]

It’s nearly unthinkable, but every year thousands of children become victims of crime—whether it’s through kidnappings, violent attacks, or sexual abuse.

The mission of our Crimes Against Children program is threefold: first, to decrease the vulnerability of children to sexual exploitation; second, to develop a nationwide capacity to provide a rapid, effective, and measured investigative response to crimes against children; and third, to enhance the capabilities of state and local law enforcement investigators through programs, investigative assistance, and task force operations.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/vc_majorthefts/cac

CARD Teams

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/vc_majorthefts/cac/card

 

[cindersoot]

Remember at the beginning how LE stopped all those vehicles and searched like two days after the girls went missing. I thought that was strange.

 

[Bootsctr]

Remember at the beginning how LE stopped all those vehicles and searched like two days after the girls went missing. I thought that was strange.

Did you follow the Jessica Ridgeway case? Did they stop and search vehicles or was it a house-to-house search from the beginning? Did LE ever put out an Amber alert in Jessica's case? I did not follow Jessica's case that closely mostly because it was solved so quickly.

 

[threecrazykids]

Remember at the beginning how LE stopped all those vehicles and searched like two days after the girls went missing. I thought that was strange.

Exactly...whether or not they classified it as an abduction a week later or not...they certainly didn't waste time checking people's vehicles THAT VERY DAY!

Only after the lake was drained and cleared did it officially become an abduction.

Some criteria could need to be met for them to actually change the classification from missing to abduction. :waitasec:

 

[otto]

Remember at the beginning how LE stopped all those vehicles and searched like two days after the girls went missing. I thought that was strange.

I think that they were stopping vehicles that were in the area at approximately the same time of day to identify people that may normally be in the area. It's possible that the person that did this habitually drives past the lake, and it's possible that the perp cruised by due to curiosity.

 

[Bootsctr]

According to aunt Tammy the family was allowed back into the wooded area that evening of finding the bikes. She said they'd taped the area off and was searching the area for "about 3 hours" and once the tape was removed the family went back in to do their own investigation. They were searching for any evidence. Including Dan and Dillon riding the quad around to search.

So, I'm not certain just how long the entire area was under watch by a deputy but we know the trail portion where the bikes were found were.

I also find it disheartening that the family was pleading with LE that this was an abduction - yet LE didn't appear to treat it as one for a week (or at least classify it as one).

Hindsight is 20/20, that's for sure. I wonder what LE could have done differently had they known the girls were abducted right from the moment the bikes were found (say, a clear sign of struggle).:banghead:

Three hours does not seem like a long time to cordone off an area where a possible abduction happened. Seems like LE would have least wanted everyone kept away for 24 hours. Even longer than 24 hours. I just watched a show on Investigation Discovery called Disappeared. The episode was "The House is Gone" and it is about 2 girls that went missing, Ashley Freeman and Lauria Bible from Welch, Oklahoma in 1999. The girls had a sleepover. The mother of Lauria received a phone call the next morning at work telling her the Freeman house had burned. Her parents went to the scene. They were told by LE that only one body had been recovered, Kathy Freeman.. 24 hours later LE released the scene and the Bibles returned to search through what was left of the burned trailer and see if they could find any evidence of what happened to their daughter and they found a second body that LE had missed. It was Ashley's father, Danny Freeman.

Anyway, back to Lyric and Elizabeth, :banghead: It seems as if we are stone-walled...

 

[threecrazykids]

I think that they were stopping vehicles that were in the area at approximately the same time of day to identify people that may normally be in the area. It's possible that the person that did this habitually drives past the lake, and it's possible that the perp cruised by due to curiosity.

So, would they need to check their trunks if they weren't thinking it was an abduction?

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...w=177&start=0&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:92

 

[Bootsctr]

Exactly...whether or not they classified it as an abduction a week later or not...they certainly didn't waste time checking people's vehicles THAT VERY DAY!

Only after the lake was drained and cleared did it officially become an abduction.

Some criteria could need to be met for them to actually change the classification from missing to abduction. :waitasec:

Only after the video surfaced of the girls riding their bicycles was Wylma's time of last seeing the girls confirmed. . .

 

[threecrazykids]

Three hours does not seem like a long time to cordone off an area where a possible abduction happened. Seems like LE would have least wanted everyone kept away for 24 hours. Even longer than 24 hours. I just watched a show on Investigation Discovery called Disappeared. The episode was "The House is Gone" and it is about 2 girls that went missing, Ashley Freeman and Lauria Bible from Welch, Oklahoma in 1999. The girls had a sleepover. The mother of Lauria received a phone call the next morning at work telling her the Freeman house had burned. Her parents went to the scene. They were told by LE that only one body had been recovered, Kathy Freeman.. 24 hours later LE released the scene and the Bibles returned to search through what was left of the burned trailer and see if they could find any evidence of what happened to their daughter and they found a second body that LE had missed. It was Ashley's father, Danny Freeman.

Anyway, back to Lyric and Elizabeth, :banghead: It seems as if we are stone-walled...

Oh my goodness. How horrible. I may have to see if I can find that one and watch it.

 

[Bootsctr]

So, would they need to check their trunks if they weren't thinking it was an abduction?

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...w=177&start=0&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:92

That's weird. The lady seems to think it is funny. I wonder how funny they think it would be if they opened a trunk and saw the words "Grim Reaper".

 

[otto]

I have read that crime scene tape was added on Friday evening and that it was added Saturday morning ... but never that it was put up for only 3 hours. On Tuesday, more of Meyers Lake was taped off.

"Authorities taped off a larger section around the shoreline of Meyers Lake this morning, stepping up search efforts in the area around the lake for any sign of the two girls who disappeared Friday afternoon in Evansdale.

Earlier authorities had only marked off sections of the biking and hiking trail around the lake, where bicycles belonging to Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and a purse were discovered Friday. The two girls haven’t been spotted since then, leading to massive search efforts through the weekend and into this week."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[threecrazykids]

I have read that crime scene tape was added on Friday evening and that it was added Saturday morning ... but never that it was put up for only 3 hours. On Tuesday, more of Meyers Lake was taped off.

"Authorities taped off a larger section around the shoreline of Meyers Lake this morning, stepping up search efforts in the area around the lake for any sign of the two girls who disappeared Friday afternoon in Evansdale.

Earlier authorities had only marked off sections of the biking and hiking trail around the lake, where bicycles belonging to Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and a purse were discovered Friday. The two girls haven’t been spotted since then, leading to massive search efforts through the weekend and into this week."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

This is Tammy's version of what happened:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

BROUSSEAU: OK. So then we watched the investigators put the crime scene tape up. They were down there for a very long time. I would say approximately three hours, maybe more, you know, doing their investigation.

And we went back around to the southeast side of the lake, where you can actually -- there is an old, like, sewer building. There`s an old garage that sits on this chunk of land that you can actually very easily go down a few blocks and access the back of the lake area from -- from that point you can.

SBM

But what I`m saying is, so I -- after the tape came down, I went back in that area and I started doing my own investigation, and looking around and seeing what I could see. And I could so feel that somebody had come down here, had been watching the girls for quite some time -- whether it even started as they left Heather and Mom`s place -- they`d been following them and watching them, seen them come down here.

Anyway -- and it was a very hot, lazy Friday. There wasn`t many people out. I kind of looked around to see because after where the bikes were dropped on the bike trail, there`s about 400 yards of forest, and then that grassy area where I`m telling you that somebody could easily access the bike trail from, park their car along that grassy forest and got out and had a knife or whatever it was, and said to the girls, you know, Get in this vehicle right now or it`s over with for you.


Unless one is to assume Tammy is lying, this is her words as to what happened the night they found the bikes.

 

[Considering]

Only after the video surfaced of the girls riding their bicycles was Wylma's time of last seeing the girls confirmed. . .

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Here is an article from The Gazette (updated 14 July 2012 @ 7:38 am) that has Kent Smock saying the girls were last seen at about 12:30 pm. Wylma said she last saw the girls about 12:15 pm. The surveillance video didn't come out until July 25th.

Smock said the girls, ages 8 and 11 years old, were last seen at about 12:30 p.m. in the downtown area.

http://thegazette.com/2012/07/14/evansdale-police-search-for-two-missing-girls/


"Missing Iowa Cousins: Surveillance Video of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook Discovered"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...deo-elizabeth-collins-lyric/story?id=16850676

 

[Tennlyn]

That's weird. The lady seems to think it is funny. I wonder how funny they think it would be if they opened a trunk and saw the words "Grim Reaper".

Dang it all...I laughed so hard that I woke my pugs up. Now I have to walk them again. :floorlaugh: