IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #30

[B4igo2it]

Iowa Hunting Seasons 2012 - 2013

http://www.iowadnr.gov/Portals/idnr/uploads/Hunting/huntingregs_card.pdf

 

[georger]

Excellent threecrazykids, thankyou for your time and hard work getting these videos.

+1 - great work.

 

[georger]

bbm- not only does your answer make sense, but you were able to figure out what I was trying to ask. Ty.

Now... jumping off your post...

Did you or Cinder (or any others who have made an onsite visit) get any "feelings or impressions" of how perp accessed body site? For example, did you feel strongly that he must have arrived at body site the same way you did, using the same hwy to park entrance and same road w/in park and same pathway?

Or that he arrived at the turnaround by the same route you took but then, instead of taking the path, accessed the body site by walking around the strip of shoreland between mainland and low water mark?

Or did it cross your mind that he might have entered the body site from a small boat?

Or entered thru a property on the complete opposite side of a waterway from where the bodies were found (perhaps wading across waterway or walking across a sandbar)... and by "opposite side," I mean via a property which a vehicle would have had to access from a different hwy than the one you took leading to 7bridges. ???

ETA: questions coming from "the poster" w/dial-up who can't stream videos... grrrh...

Crazy Question! :blushing:

Did the girls know this place at 7 Bridges and how to get there?

 

[georger]

If 7 Bridges was just a dump site for the girls' bodies, I wonder why the remains weren't found side by side. Does placing them in separate locations say anything about the perp? Perhaps he carried one girl and then tired out by time he carried the second girl? Or was he trying to send some kind of message to someone?

Remember it was higher grass when the girls were taken there ??? I assume.

Maybe there were two people each carrying a body.

 

[georger]

I wouldn't consider it a dumping ground either. It's not like there was trash everywhere or anything like that. But as with any remote area, there is bound to be people, who, for whatever reason, think it's ok to just dump their crap anywhere they want.

The areas that are maintained are actually very pretty and kept well. However, with it being a hunting access, people probably do find it easy to drop stuff there, as it's not heavily used.

ETA: I just realized you meant "dump site" as in the girls bodies...not discarding trash. Sorry about my reply making no sense. HAHAHA

I agree with Cinder...IF this person carry their bodies in, they were familiar with the area, and were physically fit enough to haul them all the way in there.

Something about this site and the two bodies spaced, just does not add up. Two people ~ two different places? One person done under cover of darkness one girl at a time which accounts for two separate locations?

One problem I have is this is quite a walk from the turnaround where perp
may have parked. Long walk, two girls, equals time and that adds risk of
discovery should someone arrive while off with the girls away from the vehicle.

What assurance did the perp have he (or they) wouldnt be discovered
while doing this at that park? No assurance, or is something being missed?
Why pick this park at all vs. dumping the bodies off at the edge of the road and being gone...
? Why take the time and risk to take the bodies back in the area at all, if they are already
dead?

 

[otto]

I'm not convinced that two bodies a short distance from each other implies anything about whether there was one or two persp, and whether they were murdered where they were found or somewhere else.

Statistically speaking (from reviewing stats about stranger murder/abduciton of children), the children were probably murdered at about the time that their bikes were dicovered. They were not buried, so the perp did not want to spend more time than necessary. It's quite possible that the two girls were abducted by one person, marched into the area, separated in order to control the children more easily, assaulted and murdered.

 

[NWLady]

OK Everyone here are the videos!!! They took longer to upload than I thought they would so they weren't all uploaded until this morning.

Granted, for some reason they are kind of choppy as far as understanding what is what...but I will answer any questions anyone has about them. I am no professional videographer but hopefully some find it helpful in understanding the layout/terrain of the park and you can see the location of where the girls were found.

Please watch them in this order for it all to make sense.

Video #1:
The drive from the main corner driving all the way down the road, past the park, down to the private gate showing the tree farm.

#1 - YouTube

Video #2:
Driving back TO the park entrance from the private drive gate.

# 2 - YouTube

Video #3: Entering the park and you can see the little "fork" in the road. If you were to go LEFT (as I show in the video) and not straight ahead, THAT road is where it will take you to where the older gentleman in the other video takes you. THAT road DOES take you over to where the private property would bump up against the park's edge. This was the original route Cinder took when she came into the park.

# 3 - YouTube

Video #4:
This video is continuing on the path into the park and to the turnabout (also showing the angels/little memorial which is as you come upon the turnabout). You hear me say I think the walk was MAYBE 50 yards. I'm referring to the walk I'd taken that far...not the total distance from the entrance to the end of the turnabout.

# 4 - YouTube

Video #5:
This is the actual walk from the turnabout to the site of where the girls were found. This walk is 1/10th of a mile...probably 150-175ish yards from the edge of the turnabout. This walk coordinates with the aerial photo of LE vehicles at the turnabout (attached).


#5 - YouTube

Video #6: Another clip of the actual site...showing the debris (grass/weeds) that were taken down from the combing of LE, and also shows the deer cam that is set up to monitor the area. (It's pretty funny, because when I realize the deer cam is there and mention it on the video, you hear my husband say "greeeaattt" LOL) That's when I kind of started wondering if we were going to end up receiving a call about our intent at the site :floorlaugh:

#6 - YouTube

Feel free to ask me any questions, I'd be glad to explain. I will tell you though, I'm horrible with directions when it comes to north, south, east, west.

Thank you so much for taking these videos for us! Kudos to your husband also!

It sure makes me quite curious about the tree farm and a few other things. I do feel that the girls lives were taken at Seven Bridges.

Again, thank you so much for doing this. :rocker::seeya:

 

[NWLady]

Cindersoot,

Thank you also for all your pictures and posts, you too did a wonderful job and it is greatly appreciated! Thanks again!

 

[superbee]

Something about this site and the two bodies spaced, just does not add up. Two people ~ two different places? One person done under cover of darkness one girl at a time which accounts for two separate locations?

One problem I have is this is quite a walk from the turnaround where perp
may have parked. Long walk, two girls, equals time and that adds risk of
discovery should someone arrive while off with the girls away from the vehicle.

What assurance did the perp have he (or they) wouldnt be discovered
while doing this at that park? No assurance, or is something being missed?
Why pick this park at all vs. dumping the bodies off at the edge of the road and being gone...
? Why take the time and risk to take the bodies back in the area at all, if they are already
dead?

It does not make sense to me either. These videos are excellent, puts the rest of us right on the spot. They are very brave, there certainly is a creepy feeling all around the area. I am still wondering why this particular spot to leave the bodies. Surely there were many other easier places to dispose of someone than way out here. I suspect this place has some kind of importance to the killer, or someone, for some reason it was deliberately picked. But why? Seems quite risky. There are farms around, someone might notice a vehicle about, might see and hear something. The killer must have a local connection of some sort, I can't see a stranger to the area finding this out of the way place. It must have taken thought and planning to pull this off, and physical effort to get the girls there alive and more so if dead. But why do all that? Why this particular spot?

 

[BunnyHop]

Just going backwards to review the posts.
3CK and Cinder, thanks so much for your videos and pics!!!!
Very well done. As we grow, we learn many things, I'll bet you are now well versed in posting videos. Thanks again for your determination. :rocker:

I have a few questions:

1. Deer cams; I now nothing about them. Wondering how they are monitored, and how long they record. Is there a time span? Do they "expire"?

2. I see discussion re: public vs private land. What is the significance?

3. Tree Farm; very interesting.

4. As an avid nature lover, I take my binoculars everywhere. It's goose nesting time here, they are pairing off. Broods to be seen soon. Hummingbirds in my yard in summer, can't wait. Ducky babies on the lake. Hawks galore and the occasional Bald Eagle. Many swans here as well, don't mess with them, they can be very aggressive.


One September night last year, windows open I heard a very strange call in the wild. I listened in awe.
I discovered it was a loon, migrating on my lake. Something I will always remember.


Voices: Common Loon - YouTube

 

[BunnyHop]

Here's my attempt at photo editing. :floorlaugh:

I enlarged it. To me, it is an animal. Deer seems most obvious, I could be wrong. It is actually behind the tree. Notice right beside it that a tree has been cut.

Notice the tree to the left, cut. Trail maintenance?
Who cuts these trees? :fence:

 

[threecrazykids]

It does not make sense to me either. These videos are excellent, puts the rest of us right on the spot. They are very brave, there certainly is a creepy feeling all around the area. I am still wondering why this particular spot to leave the bodies. Surely there were many other easier places to dispose of someone than way out here. I suspect this place has some kind of importance to the killer, or someone, for some reason it was deliberately picked. But why? Seems quite risky. There are farms around, someone might notice a vehicle about, might see and hear something. The killer must have a local connection of some sort, I can't see a stranger to the area finding this out of the way place. It must have taken thought and planning to pull this off, and physical effort to get the girls there alive and more so if dead. But why do all that? Why this particular spot?

I wonder the same thing. One can assume the perp did this at night, when the chances were very slim that someone would catch them.

Or, there were 2 perps and one stayed in the vehicle and could maybe be the "lookout person". This could be done even during the day.

I will be absolutely AMAZED if this person doesn't turn out to be a local...because even though my husband grew up about 20 mins from the park even WE took a wrong turn off the highway trying to find it. It is NOT a place you are going to find without knowledge or planning. When you turn off the highway there wasn't even a sign with an arrow or anything indicating "Seven Bridges Wildlife Area" or anything like that. It's literally just a gravel road turn off a highway with NO indication that the park is 2 miles down the road and 2 turns away.

Maybe the way Cinder came she can let us know if there was a sign, but the way we came there wasn't.

Also, there aren't really any farm houses close at all. There is one at the corner that I started at in video #1 (behind my vehicle)...other than that, there aren't any houses around that would see a vehicle come down the road.

I think this person would have a BETTER chance of not getting caught in July than they would in the fall/winter hunting months. In the summer, even if there was a vehicle at the turnabout I would naturally assume someone followed the path to go fish further down the river.

 

[threecrazykids]

Just going backwards to review the posts.
3CK and Cinder, thanks so much for your videos and pics!!!!
Very well done. As we grow, we learn many things, I'll bet you are now well versed in posting videos. Thanks again for your determination. :rocker:

I have a few questions:

1. Deer cams; I now nothing about them. Wondering how they are monitored, and how long they record. Is there a time span? Do they "expire"?

2. I see discussion re: public vs private land. What is the significance?

3. Tree Farm; very interesting.

4. As an avid nature lover, I take my binoculars everywhere. It's goose nesting time here, they are pairing off. Broods to be seen soon. Hummingbirds in my yard in summer, can't wait. Ducky babies on the lake. Hawks galore and the occasional Bald Eagle. Many swans here as well, don't mess with them, they can be very aggressive.


One September night last year, windows open I heard a very strange call in the wild. I listened in awe.
I discovered it was a loon, migrating on my lake. Something I will always remember.


Voices: Common Loon - YouTube

As far as deer cams, they run on batteries. Different models of cams capture different images and you can set them to capture a still shot, and some models can even capture videos.

Most are motion activated, so when something comes into the range of the sensor it will take a series of photos/video for a length of time.

Batteries would need to be re-installed depending on the activity level of the camera.

Keep in mind, deer cams work at night too. That's when most deer are active, so day or night wouldn't make a difference as far as whether or not the image would be captured.

 

[B4igo2it]

Notice the tree to the left, cut. Trail maintenance?
Who cuts these trees? :fence:

Growing up in the area (Minnesota/Iowa border) and an avid snowmobiler traveling the frozen rivers ... we often trimmed branches and trees along our routes. 4-wheelers (ATV) and hunters probably travel with chainsaws also. jmo

However, remembering back when we first dissected the photos there were several trees cut near the discovery site (I like that better than the dump site) and we figured LE had cut/trimmed them during their investigation.

 

[iSleuth]

OMG...I'd never looked really closely at this picture, but I just realized something in seeing this.

Where the wreaths and flowers are placed at the site are NOT where the sheets are in this picture.

Remember the other area where I was showing you that was closer to the river bank where branches were clear cut off and you noticed it they were cut all the way up the tree? And the ground was all combed down to the dirt in a circular shape? THAT is where the one body was found...not where the wreaths were placed.

The memorial wreaths/flowers line up with the path, but these sheets don't form a straight line back to the path as I thought.

That's my error in assuming the placement of the wreaths/flowers represented where the bodies were found.

I can't be sure if the flowers are close to where the other body was found.

I gotta go back.

TY so much for taking the time and making these videos! You did a fantastic job.
:tyou:

 

[janie]

OMG...I'd never looked really closely at this picture, but I just realized something in seeing this.

Where the wreaths and flowers are placed at the site are NOT where the sheets are in this picture.

Remember the other area where I was showing you that was closer to the river bank where branches were clear cut off and you noticed it they were cut all the way up the tree? And the ground was all combed down to the dirt in a circular shape? THAT is where the one body was found...not where the wreaths were placed.

The memorial wreaths/flowers line up with the path, but these sheets don't form a straight line back to the path as I thought.

That's my error in assuming the placement of the wreaths/flowers represented where the bodies were found.

I can't be sure if the flowers are close to where the other body was found.

I gotta go back.

Great job on the videos! Wasn't there some discussion that the sheets may have been police coverings like tents to protect the crime scene and that maybe one sheet could have been where the bodies were found and the other sheet could have possibly been an evidence collection spot?

 

[otto]

Great job on the videos! Wasn't there some discussion that the sheets may have been police coverings like tents to protect the crime scene and that maybe one sheet could have been where the bodies were found and the other sheet could have possibly been an evidence collection spot?

Initial reports (an estimate from the reporter) were that the remains were a 50 feet distance from each other. Based on the photos, I wondered if that was closer to 20-30 feet. I'm pretty sure the two white sheets relate to the two children.

"In the park were white sheets at two spots about 50 feet apart, according to a KCRG reporter."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_394b71f6-3f2c-11e2-8ae9-0019bb2963f4.html

Regarding the placement of the bodies 20-50 feet apart, it seems most likely to me that the children were separated for the purpose of managing, or controlling, them. Investigators separate people for that very reason all the time.

 

[Arod]

Wow! the more I look at those videos the more I think the girls must have been walked in to the place where they were murdered. I think it would take way to much time not to mention the effort it would take to drag two bodies that far. Without a doubt this perp knew this place like the back of his hand.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Initial reports (an estimate from the reporter) were that the remains were a 50 feet distance from each other. Based on the photos, I wondered if that was closer to 20-30 feet. I'm pretty sure the two white sheets relate to the two children.

"In the park were white sheets at two spots about 50 feet apart, according to a KCRG reporter."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_394b71f6-3f2c-11e2-8ae9-0019bb2963f4.html

Regarding the placement of the bodies 20-50 feet apart, it seems most likely to me that the children were separated for the purpose of managing, or controlling, them. Investigators separate people for that very reason all the time.

I agree that the two white sheets most likely indicate where the remains were located.

As for separating the girls to manage them, that's certainly a plausible explanation for why the bodies were located 20-50 feet apart. But I also feel it's possible the killer had a gun, shot one girl, the other one tried to run away, and he shot her. JMO.

 

[otto]

Wow! the more I look at those videos the more I think the girls must have been walked in to the place where they were murdered. I think it would take way to much time not to mention the effort it would take to drag two bodies that far. Without a doubt this perp knew this place like the back of his hand.

I completely agree. I can't see anyone going to all the trouble to driving remains to a remote area, and not bothering to bury the remains. The two points seem to contradict each other. That is, either someone will transport remains to a remote location and then do everything possible to hide those remains at that remote location, or the children were simply driven there on the afternoon of July 13, murdered and left lying in the forest where they were found.

Furthermore, there were plenty of other places to leave remains without taking the trouble of making two trips a distance of about 400 feet.