IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #31

[Ommmm]

I asked this in the current missing girl's thread, what else is in common with these two cases besides Bremer County?

1. Two girls (not one) 2. Abducted 3. Taken to a secluded area 4. One of the girl's bags has been discovered, separated from her. 5. Waverly is Bremer county (as you mentioned) as is 7 Bridges.

Waverly is a community outside of the larger Waterloo/Cedar Falls metro area, but is still associated with the Cedar Valley, just as Evansdale is. If you live in Waverly you might work in Cedar Falls, or vice versa. All of these communities are familiar with one another. I was just there two weeks ago to pick up a piece of furniture.

I don't know the answer to all of this.. I truly think anything is possible. However, I do feel that this is similar, and therefore I am closely watching things progress. MOO.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Personal opinions aside, I am wondering why this man was never looked at for Lyric and Lizzie.

A guy with a known history of kidnapping children, living in Iowa, an RSO, recently released.

It's a bit of a worry when BHCSO had never even heard of him, despite running this investigation for nearly a year alongside the FBI and other agencies.

 

[threecrazykids]

I thought the article stated any Felon or Sex Offender in Iowa had DNA samples taken?

Not every Sex Offender is required to provide DNA - it's based on the date of your offense. I believe it is determined by the charge. Also, I am not sure that every felon in the state has to submit DNA upon their conviction either. That's a whole 'lotta people if that's the case.

 

[leighmarker]

Not every Sex Offender is required to provide DNA - it's based on the date of your offense. I believe it is determined by the charge. Also, I am not sure that every felon in the state has to submit DNA upon their conviction either. That's a whole 'lotta people if that's the case.

Iowa law currently requires people convicted of felonies or sex offenses to provide DNA. Those samples then are entered into a database that compares them with unidentified DNA samples taken from crime scenes, both locally and nationally.
http://thegazette.com/2013/04/28/supporters-opponnts-debate-expanding-iowas-dna-collection/

however another ws made a very good point that even though someone might be convicted of a felon should be tested, doesnt mean one who has been "inside" for a long sentence didnt slip through the cracks.

 

[Sin City]

Thank you! This is frightening knowing that investigators didn't expand their RSO investigation to include this .

Personal opinions aside, I am wondering why this man was never looked at for Lyric and Lizzie.

A guy with a known history of kidnapping children, living in Iowa, an RSO, recently released.

It's a bit of a worry when BHCSO had never even heard of him, despite running this investigation for nearly a year alongside the FBI and other agencies.

 

[Sin City]

The parole officer of K came to mind last night. One would gather that K's PO knew the details of his crimes and previous behavior, so why wouldn't he/she call LE and give them a heads up about K? hmmmm

It is a requirement by Iowa Law that all sex offenders listed on the registry submit a dna sample. However, those that were convicted prior to this law don't all have a dna sample on file. From what I have heard, the state is behind in collecting those samples. Sometimes it goes undetected because of the confusion that dna should have been taken at the time of conviction but wouldn't have been prior to the law going into effect. Not all parole officers are assuring that the dna sample is on file. I am trying to find what year that law went in to effect.

moo

 

[threecrazykids]

Iowa law currently requires people convicted of felonies or sex offenses to provide DNA. Those samples then are entered into a database that compares them with unidentified DNA samples taken from crime scenes, both locally and nationally.
http://thegazette.com/2013/04/28/sup...na-collection/

however another ws made a very good point that even though someone might be convicted of a felon should be tested, doesnt mean one who has been "inside" for a long sentence didnt slip through the cracks.

Are you sure this doesn't have a date connected to it? I believe it went into effect in 2005ish. Anyone who was ON probation, parole, etc. for the defined offenses could be made to comply, but anyone whose offense was prior to that I don't think would be subject to this law. EX - if you had committed an offense such as indecent exposure in 2000 you weren't under the obligation to provide a DNA sample I don't believe. I could very well be wrong, but I don't believe for 1 second the state of IA has every single person who's ever committed a sexually based offense (violent or not) DNA on file for future reference regardless of the date of the crime.

http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/Cool-...ory=billinfo&service=IowaCode&ga=83&input=081

 

[Sin City]

These facts are really troubling me. There are other agencies helping in this investigation. Is there not enough man-power to handle this case? I'm not getting it maybe. Would there be possible issues of one dept not wanting to share the investigation with another county? I'm banging my head on my desk.

Personal opinions aside, I am wondering why this man was never looked at for Lyric and Lizzie.

A guy with a known history of kidnapping children, living in Iowa, an RSO, recently released.

It's a bit of a worry when BHCSO had never even heard of him, despite running this investigation for nearly a year alongside the FBI and other agencies.

 

[Sin City]

Threecrazykids, I think you called it here! IMO this is exactly what happened. Officials didn't take his DNA upon his release, and possibly didn't even give it any thought. Yet, is it possible that his DNA was taken, and the results aren't in the system yet?

Are you sure this doesn't have a date connected to it? I believe it went into effect in 2005ish. Anyone who was ON probation, parole, etc. for the defined offenses could be made to comply, but anyone whose offense was prior to that I don't think would be subject to this law. EX - if you had committed an offense such as indecent exposure in 2000 you weren't under the obligation to provide a DNA sample I don't believe. I could very well be wrong, but I don't believe for 1 second the state of IA has every single person who's ever committed a sexually based offense (violent or not) DNA on file for future reference regardless of the date of the crime.

http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/Cool-...ory=billinfo&service=IowaCode&ga=83&input=081

 

[leighmarker]

I dont know, didnt see when it "officially started" but its been in place for a bit.
http://thegazette.com/2013/04/28/supporters-opponnts-debate-expanding-iowas-dna-collection/ Iowa has gotten a total of 1,245 DNA hits through the state or national databases since it began entering evidence and samples in 2002, Bush said. Those hits are criminals or crime scene evidence that found a match in the system.

 

[leighmarker]

Three Crazy, there is a proposed law right now that the IA wants to start DNA samples of certain crimes that arent commited by felons.....wow!
In the case of House File 527, Branstad said collecting DNA samples from Iowans convicted of less-serious crimes classified as aggravated misdemeanors will help law enforcement solve crimes and, potentially, exonerate Iowans falsely accused of crime. It was approved 29-20 in the Senate and 82-15 in the House.http://thegazette.com/2013/05/16/governor-signs-bill-expanding-dna-collection-in-iowa/

 

[Sin City]

Wow! One can imagine the conspiracy theorists running with this type of law.

Three Crazy, there is a proposed law right now that the IA wants to start DNA samples of certain crimes that arent commited by felons.....wow!
In the case of House File 527, Branstad said collecting DNA samples from Iowans convicted of less-serious crimes classified as aggravated misdemeanors will help law enforcement solve crimes and, potentially, exonerate Iowans falsely accused of crime. It was approved 29-20 in the Senate and 82-15 in the House.http://thegazette.com/2013/05/16/governor-signs-bill-expanding-dna-collection-in-iowa/

 

[gar]

I remember this happening in the Jessica Ridgeway case too, there was a second little girl who was kidnapped and sexually assaulted pretty much at the same time in the same area.

Even I thought they had to be related, they were so similar...too coincidental.

It turned out to be two separate perps, both sick individuals, operating separately and no relation whatsoever.

I think the same is true here - the crime we have is abduction and homicide. This guy has let his victims go, and had not badly hurt them while he had them.

It's beyond scary to think there can be two separate lunatics running around Iowa kidnapping girls in their twos which is why every one wants this guy to be the perp so badly...but he's just too much of a flake to have pulled off the girls imo.

:sigh:[/QUOTE

I read that it was found out later that he tryed to choke one of the three yr olds that he kidnapped.[/QUOTE]

BBM. Not only did he choke one of them, he though he killed her (per the last sentence of this article.)

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...bduction-suspect-had-long-history-of-violence

This guy is a beast. Smart and just evil. It's hard not to connect him to the Evansdale girls.

 

[threecrazykids]

I just can NOT shake the feeling that something went VERY WRONG in the initial hours of the investigation of Lizzie and Lyric. I can't put my finger on it, but I think that extremely critical components were either missed or completely dismissed altogether and possibly cost them a solid case.

I don't know why, but there is just something that doesn't feel right with me and the investigation. I won't go as far as to say they LE are covering something up, but I just have a feeling the truth about what happened to the girls could shake that community to it's core...and the LE agencies are possibly going to be shed in an extremely bad light if the truth is ever revealed.

Whether it's that LE absolutely SHOULD have looked into the person/people responsible and chose to turn a blind eye knowing information that the public may NOT have been aware of....OR they DID look into this person and for whatever reason keep dragging their feet on actually pressing charges.

I'm not sure where the stink is coming from, but I just feel something critical either happened that compromised the case, or that something that SHOULD have happened didn't, and compromised the case.

 

[Sin City]

Nailed it! I was thinking a similar thing last night....Something is wrong about this investigation.

I just can NOT shake the feeling that something went VERY WRONG in the initial hours of the investigation of Lizzie and Lyric. I can't put my finger on it, but I think that extremely critical components were either missed or completely dismissed altogether and possibly cost them a solid case.

I don't know why, but there is just something that doesn't feel right with me and the investigation. I won't go as far as to say they LE are covering something up, but I just have a feeling the truth about what happened to the girls could shake that community to it's core...and the LE agencies are possibly going to be shed in an extremely bad light if the truth is ever revealed.

Whether it's that LE absolutely SHOULD have looked into the person/people responsible and chose to turn a blind eye knowing information that the public may NOT have been aware of....OR they DID look into this person and for whatever reason keep dragging their feet on actually pressing charges.

I'm not sure where the stink is coming from, but I just feel something critical either happened that compromised the case, or that something that SHOULD have happened didn't, and compromised the case.

 

[Sin City]

BBM. Not only did he choke one of them, he though he killed her (per the last sentence of this article.)

Thank you for sharing this!!!!! I wasn't aware of this important detail regarding K's behavior/capabilities.

I remember this happening in the Jessica Ridgeway case too, there was a second little girl who was kidnapped and sexually assaulted pretty much at the same time in the same area.

Even I thought they had to be related, they were so similar...too coincidental.

It turned out to be two separate perps, both sick individuals, operating separately and no relation whatsoever.

I think the same is true here - the crime we have is abduction and homicide. This guy has let his victims go, and had not badly hurt them while he had them.

It's beyond scary to think there can be two separate lunatics running around Iowa kidnapping girls in their twos which is why every one wants this guy to be the perp so badly...but he's just too much of a flake to have pulled off the girls imo.

:sigh:[/QUOTE

I read that it was found out later that he tryed to choke one of the three yr olds that he kidnapped.[/QUOTE]

BBM. Not only did he choke one of them, he though he killed her (per the last sentence of this article.)
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...bduction-suspect-had-long-history-of-violence

This guy is a beast. Smart and just evil. It's hard not to connect him to the Evansdale girls.

 

[watcher9]

I had a theory awhile back while discussing the Jesse Spears (Cody,Wy) case where he could have taken the two girls out to Seven Bridges and left them alive but tied up and one girl tried to crawl away before they succumbed to the weather and time.

This theory could also fit this Klunder guy. He may not have crossed that line and killed them. If he used zip ties to tie up the girls, that could have been part of the evidence Black Hawk Sheriff's Office withheld and the reason they are now interested in this person.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

It's possible LE didn't look into him because he was a tier 2 sex offender and not a tier 3, although I'd think they'd want to look at anyone with a history of kidnapping (especially someone who kidnapped a stranger using a ruse). .

 

[Snufamonbobball]

I had a theory awhile back while discussing the Jesse Spears (Cody,Wy) case where he could have taken the two girls out to Seven Bridges and left them alive but tied up and one girl tried to crawl away before they succumbed to the weather and time.

This theory could also fit this Klunder guy. He may not have crossed that line and killed them. If he used zip ties to tie up the girls, that could have been part of the evidence Black Hawk Sheriff's Office withheld and the reason they are now interested in this person.

Now we know a gun was present with Kathlynn and Desi's abduction, perhaps the girls were shot and they're comparing ballistics.

 

[threecrazykids]

What I find amazing is this:

Still, Klunder’s name crossed his mind last July when he saw news coverage of the disappearance of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey from Evansdale, Scranton said.

Then, Scranton took solace believing that Klunder was still incarcerated, he said. Collins and Cook-Morrissey were found dead Dec. 5, and investigators in the case are now following up to see if there is any evidence Klunder could have been involved.

Call me crazy, but if this guy's name immediately popped in his head, wouldn't you actually VERIFY this guy was still locked up? LE from BHC stated he was never looked into, so clearly no phone call was even made to say "hey...this case sounds strangely familiar to a case with a guy named Michael Klunder...you might want to check into the guy, last I knew he was still in the clink, but just to be safe at least check it out." If nothing but for peace of mind.

:banghead: