IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

[Marilynilpa]

I tend to agree with SS - I think by now LE should have enough info to rule Klunder in or out regarding Lyric & Lizzie. Phone records should indicate where Klunder was on July 13, 2012.

IMO, Klunder isn't the perp. Whoever took and killed our girls has, so far, pulled off a perfect crime. He took the girls, and killed them, without being seen. If it was Klunder, I feel his abduction of D and Kathlynn would not have been carried out like it was. JMO

 

[Foxfire]

I tend to agree with SS - I think by now LE should have enough info to rule Klunder in or out regarding Lyric & Lizzie. Phone records should indicate where Klunder was on July 13, 2012.

IMO, Klunder isn't the perp. Whoever took and killed our girls has, so far, pulled off a perfect crime. He took the girls, and killed them, without being seen. If it was Klunder, I feel his abduction of D and Kathlynn would not have been carried out like it was. JMO

Although stranger predator abductions are rare according to FBI NCIC statistics. Multiple child victims taken by stranger predators, at once are even more rare...virtually unheard of in a nearby geographical area in a 10 month period, imo..



http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/national/Iowa-kidnapping-suspect-probed-in-cousins-deaths_09818963

Iowa kidnapping suspect probed in cousins' deaths
Updated: Thursday, 23 May 2013, 5:15 PM EDT

IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — The man suspected of kidnapping a still-missing 15-year-old Iowa girl and her friend as they walked home from school is being scrutinized in last year's unsolved kidnapping of two young cousins whose bodies were found 100 miles away.

One reason investigators are interested: It's extremely rare to abduct multiple children at once, and police say Michael J. Klunder has done that at least twice.

 

[alliemay]

I have thought early on that MK was not the one who did this to our girls. He was very evil though and I think the S in RSO means sex, sexual offender, so I think in order to get on that list you had to do something sexual to someone?

 

[Marilynilpa]

Although stranger predator abductions are rare according to FBI NCIC statistics. Multiple child victims taken by predators, at once are even more rare...virtually unheard of in a nearby geographical area in a 10 month period, imo..



http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/national/Iowa-kidnapping-suspect-probed-in-cousins-deaths_09818963

Iowa kidnapping suspect probed in cousins' deaths
Updated: Thursday, 23 May 2013, 5:15 PM EDT

IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — The man suspected of kidnapping a still-missing 15-year-old Iowa girl and her friend as they walked home from school is being scrutinized in last year's unsolved kidnapping of two young cousins whose bodies were found 100 miles away.

One reason investigators are interested: It's extremely rare to abduct multiple children at once, and police say Michael J. Klunder has done that at least twice.

I fully understand the rarity of double abductions and have posted many times about that on various threads in this forum.

But that does not change my opinion that Klunder is not the perp in this case.

 

[SapphireSteel]

We can all agree on a couple of things.

Klunder was one very sick puppy.

He was a double kidnapper and as such, should have been a potential suspect in L&L's investigation. He was not, and we all would like an explanation for this. ullhair:

I personally doubt he is involved with L&L, not least because the MO is wrong. Klunder was disorganised, L&L's kidnapper was organised to an extreme.

I'm also mindful of the Jessica Ridgeway case. When Austin Sigg was caught LE came straight out and said he was involved in other violent crimes as well. They knew this almost immediately as they ran his DNA immediately.

It's scary that there appears to be more than one predator prowling around Iowa, especially as one of them at least appears to have fallen off LE's radar completely. :furious:

 

[Foxfire]

Imo, Michael J. Klunder narrowly missed many US DNA Identification & sex offender laws that were passed since his conviction and incarceration in 1992. He simply and tragically fell through the cracks.. In most US states, Michael J. Klunder, would have been registered as a tier 3 RSO, which have much more rigorous compliance requirements such as quarterly evaluations, etc.

http://wcfcourier.com/state-law-doe...cle_1fd47b40-4851-11e2-8359-001a4bcf887a.html

December 17, 2012 7:53 am • By MIKE WISER, michael.wiser@lee.net
Sheriff's offices getting access to database of sex offenders' photos

DES MOINES, Iowa --- Each of the more than 5,600 registered sex offenders in Iowa could soon have their mug shots digitized and saved to a dat… Read more

DES MOINES — Iowa misses out on about $150,000 a year in federal money that it could receive to upgrade and expand its sex offender registry program because lawmakers won’t increase the minimum time a sex offender has to stay on the registry to comply with federal guidelines.
The missing compliance comes into play in sex offender tiers. The Adam Walsh Act recommends sex offenders be tiered into three categories — those who have to register for 15 years, those who register for 25 years and those who register for life. Iowa’s law only has two tiers — a 10-year time period and a lifetime period.


Jetseta Marrie Gage was a Cedar Rapids, Iowa, child who was kidnapped, raped and murdered by a registered sex offender in 2005. Jetseta's case prompted awareness and changes in sentencing and sex offender registration laws for those who commit child sex crimes in Iowa.

Jetseta Gage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jetseta Marrie Gage (August 25, 1994 – March 24, 2005) was a Cedar Rapids, Iowa, child whose kidnapping, rape and murder prompted major changes in sentencing laws for those who commit child sex crimes in Iowa. Roger Bentley, a convicted sex offender and friend of Gage's family, was arrested in connection with 10-year-old Jetseta's death. He was convicted of first-degree murder and first-degree kidnapping on January 31, 2006.[1] On February 24, he was sentenced to two consecutive mandatory sentences of life in prison without parole..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Walsh_Child_Protection_and_Safety_Act

The Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act is a federal statute that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on July 27, 2006. The Walsh Act


http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/ndis-statistics


CODIS—NDIS Statistics

Measuring Success
The National DNA Index (NDIS) contains over 10,305,200 offender1 profiles, 1,454,800 arrestee profiles and 487,200 forensic profiles as of April 2013. Ultimately, the success of the CODIS program will be measured by the crimes it helps to solve. CODIS’s primary metric, the “Investigation Aided,” tracks the number of criminal investigations where CODIS has added value to the investigative process. As of April 2013, CODIS has produced over 207,800 hits assisting in more than 199,200 investigations.

Iowa

Statistical Information Total
Offender Profiles 78,681
Forensic Profiles 4,270
NDIS Participating Labs 1
Investigations Aided 1,150

 

[BunnyHop]

The laws have to change on a number of areas. The statute of limitations needs to be changed for one regarding abuse. One doesn't consider justice unless one has family support or a therapist's support. In my case I was in my 30s, and the statute had expired. To add to the delay a psychopath threatens entire families with death, and one fully knows he's capable of following through on these threats.
Domestic violence laws need to change also. They have over the years, but more needs to be done. A majority of psychopaths are also perpetrators of domestic violence. Just look at our 'Cleveland House of Horrors' monster to have evidence of this. I don't know how the hell he got away with the extreme violent beatings he gave his common law wife. The DA needs to press charges in all these cases without dropping the charges when the victim doesn't show up in court. The victim is terrified of this monster's behavior. Knowing that he's going to find a way to inflict further violence in any possible way he can. If this monster isn't placed in jail for the duration of the trial he will attack his victim again.

Thanks sooooo much for posting. Much appreciated.

IMHO, it's a "Patriarchal" society. I mentioned earlier how deep I think this goes. It pervades society on so many levels. Makes me sick.

I believe it goes deeply into many facets of our lives, and that's why it's so hard for us to change it. There are soooo many things that need change, but bureaucracy is hard to fight.

I AM happy when communities come together to go public and support each other. It shines a light of truth on these situations.

Some cases make headlines. Most do not. I pray for all the unknown victims everywhere that get no justice and media support.

:tears:

 

[Foxfire]

FYI: In the Cerro Gordo County Sheriff’s Office arrest mugshot photo of MJ Klunder, his height is shown to be 6'6"....

http://thegazette.com/2013/05/23/dayton-abduction-suspects-1991-victim-speaks-out/

Dayton abduction suspect’s 1991 victim speaks out

Another kidnapping victim shares her nightmare experience with Michael Klunder
(A must read, imo)

 

[BunnyHop]

I tend to agree with SS - I think by now LE should have enough info to rule Klunder in or out regarding Lyric & Lizzie. Phone records should indicate where Klunder was on July 13, 2012.

IMO, Klunder isn't the perp. Whoever took and killed our girls has, so far, pulled off a perfect crime. He took the girls, and killed them, without being seen. If it was Klunder, I feel his abduction of D and Kathlynn would not have been carried out like it was. JMO

IMO, Klunder was too dumb to pull it off. :twocents:

 

[BunnyHop]

FYI: In the Cerro Gordo County Sheriff’s Office arrest mugshot photo of MJ Klunder, his height is shown to be 6'6"....

http://thegazette.com/2013/05/23/dayton-abduction-suspects-1991-victim-speaks-out/

Dayton abduction suspect’s 1991 victim speaks out

Another kidnapping victim shares her nightmare experience with Michael Klunder
(A must read, imo)

A few years ago, I had my wallet stolen from my purse at work.
When I returned to my desk I met the perp face on, I startled him.
At that moment I didn't know he had my wallet in his pocket.
He was 6'6 and skinny as a bean pole. I saw his clothes and missing tooth.

When I discovered my wallet gone, frantic called all my banks and CC companies to alert. I forgot to call one. My company card.

Detectives came and questioned me. I gave such a good description, his clothes, HEIGHT, weight, age, ethnicity, MISSING TOOTH..........
He was spotted on camera at a mega mall 1/2 hour later using my boss' company card in a jewelry store. They caught the guy.

My point is this. 6'6" is hard to miss. Stands out like sore thumb. ANYONE who say this guy ANYWHERE (with 1/2 a brain could ID him) Also his ears stick out like 2 sore thumbs. JMHO. :seeya:

 

[tlcya]

If Klunder has never raped any of his victims then how the heck did this guy get put on the RSO Registery? To me the guy would just be an abductor/murderer, plain and simple, but not a RSO.

the schoolmate he attacked as a teen in a public restroom was his attempt at rape. He beat her severely as he attempted to get her clothes of and sexually assault her, she escaped.

CLEAR LAKE, Iowa ---Just as the sun was coming up on the November morning in 1986, 15-year-old Ev Leasure Gansen could see a shadow out of the corner of her eye.

“I was delivering papers for the Globe Gazette — I had just dropped one off for my social studies teacher,” said Gansen, who lived with her family in Kensett.

Gansen spun around to find 16-year-old Michael Klunder pointing a gun at her.

She knew him. They rode the bus together to school at Northwood-Kensett Community Schools.

“He said, ‘Come with me,’ ” Gansen recalled, her face tight with the memory.

Klunder led her to a public restroom at a nearby ball diamond and took her through the door.

“He blocked my way out and told me to take my clothes off,” she said. “All I could think was, ‘I’m going to die.’

much more at the link http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/kl...cle_2a2025c0-c521-11e2-a593-001a4bcf887a.html

This man was and always had been a very dangerous predator with zero impulse control IMO. I do not see psychopathic, but dangerous oh yes. and RSO, totally earned.

Just because he wasn't good at being a SO doesn't mean he wasn't one. MOO his intent was to rape his first known victim. His intent was to rape his Dayton victim. He just kept loosing control of the situation. Perhaps that is why he began taking two victims at once. To exert control over each by threatening and trying to make each responsible for the other's safety.

I cannot help but wonder if one of the two most recent victims hadn't escaped, would we have had to wait 6 months or a year for their bodies to be found in some out of the way wooded location?

IMO he is still in the running. Still riding the fence on him as a viable suspect for our girls.

 

[Foxfire]

IMO, Klunder was too dumb to pull it off. :twocents:

BunnyHop, in every sexual predator/serial killer investigation, there are many common denominators. One common denominator that is present in virtually every case is the statement, 'imo, I think he was too dumb to pull it off'..
Psychopaths, such as MJK are very creative, calculating, deflective, and manipulative. SKs/sexual predators learn by mistakes and hone their skills with each victim. They are chameleon-like and can fool even the most seasoned investigators. Family members, neighbors, and friends of MJK, all thought that he was a very nice and likable person. Few knew of his evil past due to his ability to hide behind his mask of normalcy.

Green River SK; Gary Ridgeway's IQ was only 78, yet in 1982, he was able to pass two polygraphs, multiple interrogations, and allude elite law enforcement task forces for two decades. GR, went on to take the lives of 40 more innocent victims before being identified due to DNA technology advancements in 11/2001.

As did Edmund Kemper, whose IQ was 136, MJK, learned from his psychiatric incarceration during his teen years in the 1980s, imo, when he lived at the residential treatment center for emotionally troubled children in Bremer County, IA.
If not for the heroic efforts of MJK's last surviving victim. He would still be active, imo..

 

[Marilynilpa]

BunnyHop, in every sexual predator/serial killer investigation, there are many common denominators. One common denominator that is present in virtually every case is the statement, 'imo, I think he was too dumb to pull it off'..
Psychopaths, such as MJK are very creative, calculating, deflective, and manipulative. They are chameleon-like and can fool even the most seasoned investigators. Family members, neighbors, and friends of MJK, all thought that he was a very nice and likable person. Few knew of his evil past due to his ability to hide behind his mask of normalcy.

Green River SK; Gary Ridgeway's IQ was only 78, yet he was able to pass two polygraphs, multiple interrogations, and allude law enforcement for two decades.

As did Edmund Kemper, whose IQ was 136, MJK, learned from his psychiatric incarceration during his teen years in the 1980s, when he lived at the residential treatment center for emotionally troubled children in Bremer County

BBM

While I appreciate your posts, I would question the comment I bolded above. As a long-time follower of these types of cases, I do not recall seeing any statistics indicating "in virtually every case is the statement, 'imo, I think he was too dumb to pull it off."

Thanks in advance for providing a source for this info.

 

[BunnyHop]

IMO, Klunder was too dumb to pull it off. :twocents:

Sorry to quote myself here.
This is my opinion.
I think Klunder was too dumb to pull off L&L because his record speaks for itself. As well as his actions. He was caught each time. (as far as we know based on info provide via links)

Hence my "dumb" comment.

Just my 2 cents as well as my observations and instinct.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I think it is important to keep in mind that Klunder was not a serial killer, as far as we know, so a lot of info about serial killers may not apply to him. Nor does it necessarily apply to our girls' killer since we certainly don't know if a serial killer took them.

I know I've posted this link several times, but I'm posting it again for anyone who is interested. This link provides info specific to child abduction murders, which differ greatly from serial killer murders:

http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

 

[SapphireSteel]

Sorry to quote myself here.
This is my opinion.
I think Klunder was too dumb to pull off L&L because his record speaks for itself. As well as his actions. He was caught each time. (as far as we know based on info provide via links)

Hence my "dumb" comment.

Just my 2 cents as well as my observations and instinct.

FWIW I agree.

Klunder should be called blunder, because he screwed up every crime he ever tried to commit.

It's highly unlikely he pulled off L&L's abduction, which seems to have been "the perfect crime" so far.

 

[Foxfire]

the schoolmate he attacked as a teen in a public restroom was his attempt at rape. He beat her severely as he attempted to get her clothes of and sexually assault her, she escaped.



much more at the link http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/kl...cle_2a2025c0-c521-11e2-a593-001a4bcf887a.html

This man was and always had been a very dangerous predator with zero impulse control IMO. I do not see psychopathic, but dangerous oh yes. and RSO, totally earned.

Just because he wasn't good at being a SO doesn't mean he wasn't one. MOO his intent was to rape his first known victim. His intent was to rape his Dayton victim. He just kept loosing control of the situation. Perhaps that is why he began taking two victims at once. To exert control over each by threatening and trying to make each responsible for the other's safety.

I cannot help but wonder if one of the two most recent victims hadn't escaped, would we have had to wait 6 months or a year for their bodies to be found in some out of the way wooded location?

IMO he is still in the running. Still riding the fence on him as a viable suspect for our girls.

RE: the schoolmate he attacked as a teen in a public restroom was his attempt at rape. He beat her severely as he attempted to get her clothes off and sexually assault her, she escaped.

tlcya, I agree with your conclustions with a minor exception or possibly two. I doubt that his last victim's remains would have been found due to the location he took them too. This was one of the theories discussed as to the abductor's motive for disposing of L & L's remains in the forest on the riverbank.

Imo, the following excerpt from the article BBM coupled with Kathlyn's COD is very telling;

Klunder began to struggle with her, banging her head against the wall of the restroom and pistol-whipping her in the head.

She momentarily lost consciousness. When she woke up, she said, she still wore slacks but some of her upper clothing was removed.

“I begged him to let me go. I told him I wouldn’t tell anyone,” she said, and he began to beat her again.

When she gained consciousness again, Klunder was gone.

She began to drag herself home, a few blocks away, bleeding. While her slacks had stayed in place, her breasts and chest were peppered with bruises.

 

[Foxfire]

MJK, worked at a public golf course while in prison as early as 2005 or 2007, with minimum custody working among the public... "Unbelievable"...

DAYTON, Iowa (AP) --- A man suspected of kidnapping two central Iowa girls last month before committing suicide told the state Parole Board in his three unsuccessful bids for early release that his treatment in prison had made him worthy of parole..

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/io...cle_be2cc164-cecd-11e2-849b-001a4bcf887a.html

Michael Klunder argued in his failed appeals to the board in 2005, 2007 and 2008 that he no longer was dangerous...

Klunder expressed confidence in his rehabilitation and in at least one appeal, he cited his work at a Newton golf course and his voluntary participation in a sex offender treatment program.

In his 2008 appeal, he again noted his work at the golf course, and the fact that he was in minimum custody working among the public.

 

[B4igo2it]

The laws have to change on a number of areas. The statute of limitations needs to be changed for one regarding abuse. One doesn't consider justice unless one has family support or a therapist's support. In my case I was in my 30s, and the statute had expired. To add to the delay a psychopath threatens entire families with death, and one fully knows he's capable of following through on these threats.
Domestic violence laws need to change also. They have over the years, but more needs to be done. A majority of psychopaths are also perpetrators of domestic violence. Just look at our 'Cleveland House of Horrors' monster to have evidence of this. I don't know how the hell he got away with the extreme violent beatings he gave his common law wife. The DA needs to press charges in all these cases without dropping the charges when the victim doesn't show up in court. The victim is terrified of this monster's behavior. Knowing that he's going to find a way to inflict further violence in any possible way he can. If this monster isn't placed in jail for the duration of the trial he will attack his victim again.

yes, yes, yes & yes!!! evil, evil, evil & evil!!

 

[B4igo2it]

I wonder if MJK was not on the radar regarding L&L because DM is/was :hand: