IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

[eileenhawkeye]

How do you forgive your child's killer if you don't even know who the killer is? How do you know if the killer is truly sorry? He hasn't even admitted what he did. He hasn't apologized. You don't know his back story either or whether he has committed other crimes since then. Maybe he will be arrested and convicted one day, but will insist on giving interviews, and saying horrible things to the media, etc.

 

[threecrazykids]

How do you forgive your child's killer if you don't even know who the killer is? How do you know if the killer is truly sorry? He hasn't even admitted what he did. He hasn't apologized. You don't know his back story either or whether he has committed other crimes since then. Maybe he will be arrested and convicted one day, but will insist on giving interviews, and saying horrible things to the media, etc.

I agree. And I understand Drew's explanation of "giving it to God" after he's gone through a lot of the stages...he's doing it to release the weight.

I feel (and this is MY opinion only) is that Heather "gave it to God" because 1. That is what a "good church going, God loving person is SUPPOSE to do" and she wants everyone to think her faith is unshaken by even this and 2. it's an excuse for her to not think about it.

 

[janie]

Personally I don't think this interview is any different from any of the plethora of others I've seen these two put on.

I would give anything to have some face time with Misty...SHE is the one who I want to hear from.

I have a list of questions I'd love to ask her, but from what Heather says she's moved out of town. Not sure what "out of town" means - out of Waterloo? Good for her if she has...if you're going to improve your life after drugs I personally think one of the hardest choices is to remove yourself from the friends/situation that put you down that path...and after something like this, with her not wanting to be in the spotlight I'm sure staying in Waterloo would be difficult.

I don't know how you can't know what's going on with your sister even if you aren't in contact with her - unless she's cut out Wylma and the rest of the family as well. The rest of the family appears very close knit with Heather and Drew on the outside, and Grandma's role in Heather's life was babysitter and cleaning lady.

I'd be curious to know if Heather still has Grandma coming to clean for her. :waitasec:

I will never understand all of the hatred towards Heather and most of it originally stemmed from her getting her nails done and her wearing high heels and went south from there. Unless someone has lived with an addict who has lied and stolen and dumped their kids off on others, how can any of us judge what the sister relationship should be?

If you check iowacourts online you will find an entry for Misty for May 2013 where she is the "payor" of a cash bond for a convicted felon. Here is just a sampling of some of his entries. My understanding is that is that she is living with him and that is what Heather meant by "living out of town."

CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE VIOL. (FELC)
POSSESSION OF EPHEDRINE (FELD)
POSSESSION OF ETHYL ETHER (FELD)
POSSESSION OF LITHIUM (FELD)

 

[threecrazykids]

I will never understand all of the hatred towards Heather and most of it originally stemmed from her getting her nails done and her wearing high heels and went south from there. Unless someone has lived with an addict who has lied and stolen and dumped their kids off on others, how can any of us judge what the sister relationship should be?

If you check iowacourts online you will find an entry for Misty for May 2013 where she is the "payor" of a cash bond for a convicted felon. Here is just a sampling of some of his entries. My understanding is that is that she is living with him and that is what Heather meant by "living out of town."

CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE VIOL. (FELC)
POSSESSION OF EPHEDRINE (FELD)
POSSESSION OF ETHYL ETHER (FELD)
POSSESSION OF LITHIUM (FELD)

I don't hate Heather. I don't even know her. I am forming my opinion of her based solely on the multiple interviews I've watched. Her body language and answers speak volumes. I don't care whether she has her nails done, wears high heels, etc...that is NOT where my lack of understanding for her falls.

My "issue" I guess you could call it is her APPARENT lack of emotion in relation to the abduction and subsequent murder of her daughter and niece. Maybe she's just putting on this front that she's separated herself from the entire situation, has left it all in God's and Drew's hands while she moves on and "doesn't think about it."

Do you feel this is all a big lie and she's putting on a tough girl front? Maybe you know more about her than I.

I just see a complete disconnect from the entire situation and almost a non-chalant attitude about it. And I'm not buying for one second that her lack of emotion was to protect herself with her health issues. I would venture to guess that no doctor in this world would tell her "you can't grieve like a healthy hearted woman would...you need to just put this behind you move on."

She participates in all of the publicized appearances for the girls. She does pride herself on making the time to go with Drew to counseling (when she makes time - her words) so HE can get past it - but doesn't feel she needs any help moving on.

Like I've said before...I don't know, nor do I WANT to know what a "normal" grieving mother looks like, but if I were to have multiple scenarios before me and I was to choose "which mother had her daughter and niece abducted and murdered?" Heather's public behaviors certaily wouldn't lead me to believe she is a grieving mother. And my opinion hasn't changed about her since day 1...this isn't a "new revelation" in her change of attitude...it's been this way since the day they were taken.

Again...I don't hate her, nor do I care if her Miss Me jeans make her look hot and she wears 4 inch heels...I just question her lack of emotion regarding the abduction and subsequent murder of her daughter.

:twocents:

 

[Milgirl]

I will never understand all of the hatred towards Heather and most of it originally stemmed from her getting her nails done and her wearing high heels and went south from there. Unless someone has lived with an addict who has lied and stolen and dumped their kids off on others, how can any of us judge what the sister relationship should be?

If you check iowacourts online you will find an entry for Misty for May 2013 where she is the "payor" of a cash bond for a convicted felon. Here is just a sampling of some of his entries. My understanding is that is that she is living with him and that is what Heather meant by "living out of town."

CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE VIOL. (FELC)
POSSESSION OF EPHEDRINE (FELD)
POSSESSION OF ETHYL ETHER (FELD)
POSSESSION OF LITHIUM (FELD)

I saw that too. Very sad.


https://www.iowacourts.state.ia.us/ESAWebApp/TIndexFrm

 

[SapphireSteel]

I will never understand all of the hatred towards Heather and most of it originally stemmed from her getting her nails done and her wearing high heels and went south from there. Unless someone has lived with an addict who has lied and stolen and dumped their kids off on others, how can any of us judge what the sister relationship should be?

RSBM

I can't see "hatred". :dunno:

I see a bunch of :websleuther: analysing every single bit of information we possibly can to help find out who murdered these girls.

If a parent gets looked hard at - well, that's what we do, right?

No one has accused H of anything at all, but folks do naturally look at grieving parents when a child is murdered. If that grieving parent does some unusual-seeming things, then it's going to be noticed and commented upon.

Unfortunately what's dragged H into the public eye in the first place is the disappearance and death of her daughter and as there has been no arrest, we are all still looking for answers.

It's a bit different from "hatred". Why would anyone hate a grieving parent?

:cow:

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't hate Heather. I don't even know her. I am forming my opinion of her based solely on the multiple interviews I've watched. Her body language and answers speak volumes. I don't care whether she has her nails done, wears high heels, etc...that is NOT where my lack of understanding for her falls.

My "issue" I guess you could call it is her APPARENT lack of emotion in relation to the abduction and subsequent murder of her daughter and niece. Maybe she's just putting on this front that she's separated herself from the entire situation, has left it all in God's and Drew's hands while she moves on and "doesn't think about it."

Do you feel this is all a big lie and she's putting on a tough girl front? Maybe you know more about her than I.

I just see a complete disconnect from the entire situation and almost a non-chalant attitude about it. And I'm not buying for one second that her lack of emotion was to protect herself with her health issues. I would venture to guess that no doctor in this world would tell her "you can't grieve like a healthy hearted woman would...you need to just put this behind you move on."

She participates in all of the publicized appearances for the girls. She does pride herself on making the time to go with Drew to counseling (when she makes time - her words) so HE can get past it - but doesn't feel she needs any help moving on.

Like I've said before...I don't know, nor do I WANT to know what a "normal" grieving mother looks like, but if I were to have multiple scenarios before me and I was to choose "which mother had her daughter and niece abducted and murdered?" Heather's public behaviors certaily wouldn't lead me to believe she is a grieving mother. And my opinion hasn't changed about her since day 1...this isn't a "new revelation" in her change of attitude...it's been this way since the day they were taken.

Again...I don't hate her, nor do I care if her Miss Me jeans make her look hot and she wears 4 inch heels...I just question her lack of emotion regarding the abduction and subsequent murder of her daughter.

:twocents:

She does seem to enjoy the spotlight.

TV interview after interview, all with no new information.

:dunno:

 

[Cherry]

I agree. And I understand Drew's explanation of "giving it to God" after he's gone through a lot of the stages...he's doing it to release the weight.

I feel (and this is MY opinion only) is that Heather "gave it to God" because 1. That is what a "good church going, God loving person is SUPPOSE to do" and she wants everyone to think her faith is unshaken by even this and 2. it's an excuse for her to not think about it.

The cliche, "giving it over to god" is a 12 step idea based phrase; for things you cannot handle. IOW you can't handle x y z; you "give it over to god" whatever your god is.

 

[janie]

I don't hate Heather. I don't even know her. I am forming my opinion of her based solely on the multiple interviews I've watched. Her body language and answers speak volumes. I don't care whether she has her nails done, wears high heels, etc...that is NOT where my lack of understanding for her falls.

My "issue" I guess you could call it is her APPARENT lack of emotion in relation to the abduction and subsequent murder of her daughter and niece. Maybe she's just putting on this front that she's separated herself from the entire situation, has left it all in God's and Drew's hands while she moves on and "doesn't think about it."

Do you feel this is all a big lie and she's putting on a tough girl front? Maybe you know more about her than I.

I just see a complete disconnect from the entire situation and almost a non-chalant attitude about it. And I'm not buying for one second that her lack of emotion was to protect herself with her health issues. I would venture to guess that no doctor in this world would tell her "you can't grieve like a healthy hearted woman would...you need to just put this behind you move on."

She participates in all of the publicized appearances for the girls. She does pride herself on making the time to go with Drew to counseling (when she makes time - her words) so HE can get past it - but doesn't feel she needs any help moving on.

Like I've said before...I don't know, nor do I WANT to know what a "normal" grieving mother looks like, but if I were to have multiple scenarios before me and I was to choose "which mother had her daughter and niece abducted and murdered?" Heather's public behaviors certaily wouldn't lead me to believe she is a grieving mother. And my opinion hasn't changed about her since day 1...this isn't a "new revelation" in her change of attitude...it's been this way since the day they were taken.

Again...I don't hate her, nor do I care if he Miss Me jeans make her look hot and she wears 4 inch heels...I just question her lack of emotion regarding the abduction and subsequent murder of her daughter.

:twocents:

I have never seen Heather claim acting in any way because of her health issues. The only dialogue I have seen about her health issues having any bearing on her behavior is speculation from outsiders on the forums like this one. People commented on Jackie Kennedy's lack of tears at JFK's funeral. Some called her brave and some thought she didn't grieve properly. I've heard from other locals that Heather does have meltdowns but they are private with her husband. Maybe she puts on a brave face in front of the cameras because she sees it as an opportunity to help others or get a message out there which would be hard to do if crumbling in tears. She also has other children to be brave for. I'd be much more concerned for the one who is still having someone else raise her only remaining child while off with a new boyfriend she bailed out of jail who is a convicted meth cook.

 

[SapphireSteel]

We all know grief takes many forms.

I went to Catholic school (although not Catholic) and one of the things that baffled me was the nuns laughing and smiling at another nun's funeral.

I was shocked, funerals were places of grief in my eyes, however after a minute or two's thought even my 13 year old Anglican self realised that the nuns were happy because they genuinely believed their sister had gone to Jesus and was in a far better place, indeed where they all hoped to go at the end of their earthly lives.

It wasn't grief, it was almost a celebration. That's belief.

:twocents:

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Thank you Marilyn for posting the link for Drew and Heather's interview. Drew I understand. Heather I do not understand. She can forgive who killed the girls, but she does not ever see the relationship with her own flesh and blood being repaired? That sounds superficial to me. I am not judging for I have not walked in Heather's shoes, but I don't understand her responses.

I don't know Heather, I've never met her and I certainly have no business passing judgment on her. The following is meant with great respect for her.

My impression of Heather is that she is coping with life by having very rigid boundaries. Right now, whoever the perp who killed Elizabeth and Lyric is just a theoretical person to her, not a specific human being. It's much easier to say in the abstract that one would forgive the person who did this because what one is forgiving is a theoretical construct. I think her stated preference not to know anything of the details of what happened to Elizabeth and Lyric is part of her coping method. By not knowing the details, it stays somewhat removed from her consciousness.

I think she loved Elizabeth and Lyric dearly and she clings to those memories, rather than thinking about the last day of their lives.

So far as her relationship with her sister is concerned, I think she has probably been disappointed many times in Misty. And Misty may well have been disappointed in Heather, may have yearned for unconditional love from Heather and not gotten it. Most of all, Misty is not an abstract person to Heather, Misty is an uncomfortably real person with good qualities and big faults. When it comes to dealing with the undeniable reality of Misty, Heather just can't do it.

I may well be wrong about the following and I hope I am. My impression is that Heather's strength is enormous but brittle. If something happens to cause one tiny crack in her strength, she will fall into rubble and face a very difficult journey to put herself back together again.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

How do you forgive your child's killer if you don't even know who the killer is? How do you know if the killer is truly sorry? He hasn't even admitted what he did. He hasn't apologized. You don't know his back story either or whether he has committed other crimes since then. Maybe he will be arrested and convicted one day, but will insist on giving interviews, and saying horrible things to the media, etc.

Strictly from my own experience, I found I had to forgive the man who raped me not because he was ever charged or ever expressed any remorse (he wasn't and didn't) but because I was going to go seriously insane if I didn't find a way to deal with my anger, guilt, shame and hatred.

Until I did so, I had no peace in my life, no serenity. Forgiving him was a choice I made for me, to put an end to the damage he caused me. My hatred and anger did nothing to affect him but it was corroding me from the inside out. I came to realise that he was still controlling a lot of my emotional life without lifting a finger. For my own sanity, I had to cut that bond of anger and hatred.

It took me close to 15 years to figure it out and it is still an ongoing project over 40 years later. I came very close to losing the (non-Abrahamic) philosophy/religion I was raised in because I could not even faintly grasp the concept of unconditional compassion while I held onto that rage and hatred.

Maybe it just came down to pride: I was not going to let one man and one incident rule the rest of my life because I'm too proud to give that much control to anyone else. All I know, though, is that it can be done.

 

[threecrazykids]

The cliche, "giving it over to god" is a 12 step idea based phrase; for things you cannot handle. IOW you can't handle x y z; you "give it over to god" whatever your god is.

Faith has so many facets and interpretations it's practically impossible to understand each others beliefs...so I can't possibly try to turn this into a religious debate.

I understand the general concept. However there is also the phrase "God doesn't give you things you can't handle". My understanding is that in every tragedy, circumstance, etc. there are "lessons" to be learned, and things to take away from what has burdened you.

I guess I misunderstood what "give it to God" means. I didn't think it was to be used whenever you are faced with a situation you don't want to deal with, but Heather has made it clear that she's not burdened by this any longer and that is apparently admirable.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I have never seen Heather claim acting in any way because of her health issues. The only dialogue I have seen about her health issues having any bearing on her behavior is speculation from outsiders on the forums like this one. People commented on Jackie Kennedy's lack of tears at JFK's funeral. Some called her brave and some thought she didn't grieve properly. I've heard from other locals that Heather does have meltdowns but they are private with her husband. Maybe she puts on a brave face in front of the cameras because she sees it as an opportunity to help others or get a message out there which would be hard to do if crumbling in tears. She also has other children to be brave for. I'd be much more concerned for the one who is still having someone else raise her only remaining child while off with a new boyfriend she bailed out of jail who is a convicted meth cook.

In a way, all this speculation about Heather feels a bit like what led to Lindy Chamberlain's conviction in Australia. Lindy didn't "behave normally for a grieving mother" either and it led to a horrible legal ordeal in which she was unjustly convicted of murder and imprisoned. There are just so many things wrong with that, I can't possibly list them.

It is very rare these days for children to die. I sometimes wonder if people were more understanding 200 years ago when the child mortality rate was very high and losing a child to death from illness, injury or accident was very common. It is so rare these days in the industrialised world ("first world") that there are comparatively few people to show all the variation grieving can take.

 

[Cherry]

Not being burdened by this; by any mother would be the defintion of cruel to me. It's too soon in the investigation for her to even be saying some of the things she says. Highly suspect, the whole thing. JMHO any mother who could say that, without knowing what happened; has issues. Grief has stages. I've not seen her in any stage of them yet. I don't know her; but the limelight does seem to be more important than finding the killer or killers.

 

[threecrazykids]

I have never seen Heather claim acting in any way because of her health issues. The only dialogue I have seen about her health issues having any bearing on her behavior is speculation from outsiders on the forums like this one. People commented on Jackie Kennedy's lack of tears at JFK's funeral. Some called her brave and some thought she didn't grieve properly. I've heard from other locals that Heather does have meltdowns but they are private with her husband. Maybe she puts on a brave face in front of the cameras because she sees it as an opportunity to help others or get a message out there which would be hard to do if crumbling in tears. She also has other children to be brave for. I'd be much more concerned for the one who is still having someone else raise her only remaining child while off with a new boyfriend she bailed out of jail who is a convicted meth cook.

Maybe you took something away from this interview that apparently I missed, or hadn't seen in prior interviews. What did you feel Heather's message was? I'm not being snarky...I just apparently missed what her message is.

I am not at all saying I'm not concerned about Misty. Old habits die hard. My reference to Misty was that I'd simply like to get an update on how she, Wylma, and the rest of the family is doing since the girls bodies were found. We have gotten no interviews from Misty or the rest of the family since they were confirmed dead.

These two "sides" (if you want to call it that)...did a complete 180 during this entire nightmare in regards to publicity...it's very strange.

I've also spoke to locals but if you've been on any FB pages for the girls or even visited Rodger Day's website/FB page or Misty's FB page you would know that this disconnect between these sisters isn't one sided. Misty has made it clear to that she wants nothing to do with Heather either.

I don't doubt that Heather has reasons (apparently going back to childhood) that cause her to disassociate herself from Misty. I simply have my OWN opinion that I personally find it nothing short of incomprehensible that a God fearing woman can forgive someone (the DAY they were taken) for abducting, possibly sexually assaulting, and ultimately KILLING my daughter - but not be able to forgive my sister for a drug addiction and her behavior associated with it.

I don't deal with drug dealers/makers/users so I can't speak even one iota of what life with an addict is. But I just choose to believe that I'd be able to find a teeny piece of me who could forgive my sister vs. someone who murdered my daughter and niece.

Again...I'm not asking you to agree with me...I'm just explaining how I see the situation.

 

[Cherry]

I saw that too. Very sad.


https://www.iowacourts.state.ia.us/ESAWebApp/TIndexFrm

Ayup: all the Ingredients to make meth. Well; not all....KWIM?

 

[janie]

Faith has so many facets and interpretations it's practically impossible to understand each others beliefs...so I can't possibly try to turn this into a religious debate.

I understand the general concept. However there is also the phrase "God doesn't give you things you can't handle". My understanding is that in every tragedy, circumstance, etc. there are "lessons" to be learned, and things to take away from what has burdened you.

I guess I misunderstood what "give it to God" means. I didn't think it was to be used whenever you are faced with a situation you don't want to deal with, but Heather has made it clear that she's not burdened by this any longer and that is apparently admirable.

I think 10 people who saw the interview could give you 10 different interpretations for what they saw. I didn't see a woman "who isn't burdened by this any longer." I saw a woman who turned the burden over to God to lift from her. Do I believe the burden is totally lifted? No I don't. I think she has to pray and pray and pray about it. I, like Grainne Dhu stated, believe Heather's strength is "enormous but brittle" and worry she will "fall into rubble."

I also worry about Misty's surviving son that needs a mother who is absent from his life and I worry about her possible exposure to the drugs that have already damaged her life.

I don't feel comfortable sitting here participating in crucifying Heather for not acting the way some feel she should act and criticizing her for how she treats her sister. I don't feel comfortable reading things that lead to false rumors stating that Misty removed herself from town and is a better or smarter woman for doing so when that really isn't the case. The only truth to that statement is yes, she's in another town.

 

[threecrazykids]

Strictly from my own experience, I found I had to forgive the man who raped me not because he was ever charged or ever expressed any remorse (he wasn't and didn't) but because I was going to go seriously insane if I didn't find a way to deal with my anger, guilt, shame and hatred.

Until I did so, I had no peace in my life, no serenity. Forgiving him was a choice I made for me, to put an end to the damage he caused me. My hatred and anger did nothing to affect him but it was corroding me from the inside out. I came to realise that he was still controlling a lot of my emotional life without lifting a finger. For my own sanity, I had to cut that bond of anger and hatred.

It took me close to 15 years to figure it out and it is still an ongoing project over 40 years later. I came very close to losing the (non-Abrahamic) philosophy/religion I was raised in because I could not even faintly grasp the concept of unconditional compassion while I held onto that rage and hatred.

Maybe it just came down to pride: I was not going to let one man and one incident rule the rest of my life because I'm too proud to give that much control to anyone else. All I know, though, is that it can be done.

Thank you so much for explaining this...and this is exactly what I would expect from such a tragic situation.

Which is why it completely baffles me that Heather explains she "gave it to God" and forgave this person the day they were taken.

I simply can NOT comprehend it. Can't.

 

[janie]

Maybe you took something away from this interview that apparently I missed, or hadn't seen in prior interviews. What did you feel Heather's message was? I'm not being snarky...I just apparently missed what her message is.

I am not at all saying I'm not concerned about Misty. Old habits die hard. My reference to Misty was that I'd simply like to get an update on how she, Wylma, and the rest of the family is doing since the girls bodies were found. We have gotten no interviews from Misty or the rest of the family since they were confirmed dead.

These two "sides" (if you want to call it that)...did a complete 180 during this entire nightmare in regards to publicity...it's very strange.

I've also spoke to locals but if you've been on any FB pages for the girls or even visited Rodger Day's website/FB page or Misty's FB page you would know that this disconnect between these sisters isn't one sided. Misty has made it clear to that she wants nothing to do with Heather either.

I don't doubt that Heather has reasons (apparently going back to childhood) that cause her to disassociate herself from Misty. I simply have my OWN opinion that I personally find it nothing short of incomprehensible that a God fearing woman can forgive someone (the DAY they were taken) for abducting, possibly sexually assaulting, and ultimately KILLING my daughter - but not be able to forgive my sister for a drug addiction and her behavior associated with it.

I don't deal with drug dealers/makers/users so I can't speak even one iota of what life with an addict is. But I just choose to believe that I'd be able to find a teeny piece of me who could forgive my sister vs. someone who murdered my daughter and niece.

Again...I'm not asking you to agree with me...I'm just explaining how I see the situation.

What I took away from the interview is that Ron Steele needed a topic for his 1/2 hour show on Sunday mornings. I saw that HE led the discussion, HE asked the questions. That's all I took from it. He had his typical half hour small town production and they were who he decided to interview.

Maybe you could write to him and ask him to have Wylma and Misty on. Maybe Tammy would be more informative? She usually is.