IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

[janie]

Re: Dan is not a suspect:

I posted this yesterday:

"Lyric's father Dan Morrissey was investigated as a person of interest shortly after the girls disappeared because of his ties to the local methamphetamine trade.

But authorities have said he [Dan] is not considered a suspect in the girls' disappearance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...orrissey-Elizabeth-Collins.html#ixzz2feGQW3xW

It's possible that the person responsible for the abductions/murders is a meth head, but that doesn't mean that the murders have some connection to Lyric's father. In fact, since police have said that Dan is not considered a suspect ... I see no reason to refuse to believe that.

Wylma could not have taken Lyric to Heather's house every morning to clean because Lyric would normally be in school. Those visits could only have happened for a maximum of 10 days in early July. That's not enough to set a pattern such that a meth head is going to recognize a pattern and target a little girl in another town.

ETA: I see that TCK already posted the link ... thx

I have never said I think Dan had anything to do with the crime, in fact I have said I don't believe he had anything to do with it but I believe someone in the drug world he was exposed to is involved.

As far as Lyric being in school for all but a maximum of 10 days in early July, I don't know how it is where you live but here the kids get out of school for the summer in early June and go back to school towards the end of August, so she could have been going every day from around June 5-10 to July 13.

 

[janie]

Lyric was 10 years old when she vanished. The orders you quote were defined in 2003, when Lyric was an infant. First she was raised by Heather, and the Wylma. She was still living with Wylma in 2012 when she vanished. I don't see where she would have been exposed to a life of meth ... and I don't believe that Wylma and Vicki were providing their homes as meth labs.

Then how do you explain that the day the girl's bodies were discovered LE going to Dan's home to tell him of their discovery to detectives smelling meth chemicals? Where was home? From Vicki's reports he lived with her as did his son. Since Dan was under police supervision I'm sure he had to let LE know where he lived.

 

[SapphireSteel]

None of it paints a pretty picture.

At the very least, we know Dan was using, obtaining, and selling meth before, during, and after Lyric's death.

We also know Dan had an active role in his daughter's life.

I honestly cannot see how she could have been unaffected by her father's lifestyle choices.

My father was a drinker, and it affected me...and that was legal.

:cow:

Lyric was rated an "at risk" child by virtue of her parental status...both are criminals.

Statistically speaking, the drugs did have something to do with her disappearance.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I would wholeheartedly agree with you if ever there was a reference to Heather and Drew exclusively. I have yet to find and article that doesn't mention Dan and Misty's past in immediate reference to Smock stating that "they've been cleared". Every article references Dan and Misty's past drug connections (rightfully so in regards to reporting) - but I was just hoping to read somewhere along the lines where BOTH sets of parents without a reference to one or the other were cleared on their own accord.

Although they were taken together their families appear to be in completely different realms in regards to circle of acquaintences. Focusing simply on the drug connection may or may not bring about a suspect...but to exclude the Collins' side simply because they don't appear to be involved in a drug related past would be ignorant, no?

I agree, I think.

I don't see Drew or Heather as suspects because it seems likely that both had good alibis for the time of the abduction (Drew was working or at home with their other children, Heather had a doctor's appointment). But it could have been someone who knew them. Maybe not regarded as a close friend but may have belonged to the same church, had a child who played on the same softball or soccer team, etc.

One possibility I have wondered about is that Drew said once that he sometimes took one of the kids along with him on business. I totally support that, it's a great way to gently educate kids that adults don't just do whatever they want all day long and money doesn't just get dispensed at will from a machine. But it was yet another way for someone to have seen Elizabeth and for her to regard that person as "not a stranger" because she met him while she was with her dad.

I wish this case could be solved soon because I'm betting that Drew has the same thoughts going through his head: was the perp someone I know? Who can I really trust?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

The news that Klunder had/has a brother in Waterloo is certainly interesting. He is probably top of my list right now. I think Klunder was sexually motivated, whether he was thwarted in the past or not, and I believe he is a sexual predator. I think the girls may have been sexually assaulted, based on Heather and Drew's recent advocacy for sex trafficking interventions and RSO awareness. But they may only be guessing.

SBM

I can't find the link for it but I have seen references to several studies that say that a significant percent (up to 90%) of the time, a male rapist does not ejaculate in their victim. DNA kits often pick up epithelial (skin) cells but no or very low numbers of sperm. This is part of the reason feminist theory says that rape is not about the relief of sexual urges but the desire to control and humiliate the victim.

So Klunder may well have been sexually motivated but that sexual acts were not part of his MO. He may have enjoyed beating his victims and used those acts as his fantasy life.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I have never said I think Dan had anything to do with the crime, in fact I have said I don't believe he had anything to do with it but I believe someone in the drug world he was exposed to is involved.

As far as Lyric being in school for all but a maximum of 10 days in early July, I don't know how it is where you live but here the kids get out of school for the summer in early June and go back to school towards the end of August, so she could have been going every day from around June 5-10 to July 13.

Misty said that she and Lyric went swimming at George Wyth lake for the five weeks that swimming season was open before she got her job at Casey's. It was after Misty got her job that Lyric was accompanying Wylma to the Collins house.

 

[alliemay]

Misty said that she and Lyric went swimming at George Wyth lake for the five weeks that swimming season was open before she got her job at Casey's. It was after Misty got her job that Lyric was accompanying Wylma to the Collins house.

IIRC, I think she had only started that job the week before.

 

[otto]

Then how do you explain that the day the girl's bodies were discovered LE going to Dan's home to tell him of their discovery to detectives smelling meth chemicals? Where was home? From Vicki's reports he lived with her as did his son. Since Dan was under police supervision I'm sure he had to let LE know where he lived.

You wouldn't happen to have a link for that would you? Assuming that Dan smelled of meth chemicals, did the police then get a search warrant to determine whether someone was cooking meth at Vicki's home? Did they find a meth lab and, if so, wouldn't the house be seized? If the house was not seized and a warrant was not issued, wouldn't that mean that Vicki's house is not a meth lab?

 

[roseofsharon]

Misty also mentioned that L had been at Byrnes Pool in Waterloo.

Also, iirc Drew and Heather worked or had worked at a bakery.

 

[otto]

None of it paints a pretty picture.

At the very least, we know Dan was using, obtaining, and selling meth before, during, and after Lyric's death.

We also know Dan had an active role in his daughter's life.

I honestly cannot see how she could have been unaffected by her father's lifestyle choices.

My father was a drinker, and it affected me...and that was legal.

:cow:

Lyric was rated an "at risk" child by virtue of her parental status...both are criminals.

Statistically speaking, the drugs did have something to do with her disappearance.

If Lyric was the only child that was abducted and murdered, one might leap to the conclusion that it had something to do with what her non-custodial parent was doing. This abduction occurred in Elizabeth's neighborhood on routes that she routinely cycled when visiting a friend. Elizabeth was abducted. Lyric happened to be visiting her cousin when this happened.

How does Elizabeth's abduction and murder relate to what Lyric's father did in another city?

 

[SapphireSteel]

You wouldn't happen to have a link for that would you? Assuming that Dan smelled of meth chemicals, did the police then get a search warrant to determine whether someone was cooking meth at Vicki's home? Did they find a meth lab and, if so, wouldn't the house be seized? If the house was not seized and a warrant was not issued, wouldn't that mean that Vicki's house is not a meth lab?

Not necessarily.

A lot of "labs" now are just shake and bake. No need for a complicated set up, a dedicated room, nothing.

One tweaker set up her shake and bake in Walmart. :banghead:

 

[otto]

Not necessarily.

A lot of "labs" now are just shake and bake. No need for a complicated set up, a dedicated room, nothing.

One tweaker set up her shake and bake in Walmart. :banghead:

If police go to a house and suspect that someone in the house is cooking meth, they have a responsibility to follow up. They would have probable cause for obtaining a search warrant. Either there is a meth lab at Vicki's house, or there isn't, but it is not reasonable to say that police went to the house, smelled meth chemicals, suspected that meth was being cooked in the house and that they did nothing about it.

If police did nothing, then it is reasonable to assume that Vicki's house is not a meth lab.

 

[SapphireSteel]

If police go to a house and suspect that someone in the house is cooking meth, they have a responsibility to follow up. They would have probable cause for obtaining a search warrant. Either there is a meth lab at Vicki's house, or there isn't, but it is not reasonable to say that police went to the house, smelled meth chemicals, suspected that meth was being cooked in the house and that they did nothing about it.

If police did nothing, then it is reasonable to assume that Vicki's house is not a meth lab.

I didn't say that...

:waitasec:

They would have to prove the house was "proceeds of crime" to have a hope of "taking" it. All sorts of crime scenes happen in people's houses, people who have to keep living there.

Dan was a persistent, frequent, habitual felon. Where do you think he ran his business from? He didn't even have a car.

:dunno:

 

[janie]

You wouldn't happen to have a link for that would you? Assuming that Dan smelled of meth chemicals, did the police then get a search warrant to determine whether someone was cooking meth at Vicki's home? Did they find a meth lab and, if so, wouldn't the house be seized? If the house was not seized and a warrant was not issued, wouldn't that mean that Vicki's house is not a meth lab?

I gave the link in post #461

 

[ktgirl]

I know many of you disagree, this case still "smells" to me like a stranger abduction perpetrated by a sexual predator to me.

 

[JaimeInLA]

You wouldn't happen to have a link for that would you? Assuming that Dan smelled of meth chemicals, did the police then get a search warrant to determine whether someone was cooking meth at Vicki's home? Did they find a meth lab and, if so, wouldn't the house be seized? If the house was not seized and a warrant was not issued, wouldn't that mean that Vicki's house is not a meth lab?

You don't need a meth lab to cook meth. All it takes is a 2 liter bottle, a portable electric burner, and the proper chemicals. It can be done in any bathroom, and the necessary tools & ingredients are small enough to fit in a box or suitcase and slide under a bed. I'm not saying that's what happened. I just don't want people picturing some big permanent lab.

 

[alliemay]

I know many of you disagree, this case still "smells" to me like a stranger abduction perpetrated by a sexual predator to me.

I agree with you, I also feel this distraction with the whole meth thing may have hindered this case in some way. In the beginning a lot of focus was put on the theory that Dan and his drugs were involved. Not just by law enforcement but in the media. There are still some that think that way and that is fine. They think eventually evidence will come out pointing the finger that way. Yes anything is possible, but I think that if there was anything to be found they would have found it by now, I feel the same way about the theory that MK did it. With both of those scenario's they have had time to find evidence and so far nothing.

So I tend to push both of those theories in the cobwebs of my mind and stick with my original thoughts of a sick person with a bad appetite for children. Like I mentioned before, you want a drink you go to the bar, you want children you go to the playground, bus stop etc.

As far as Dan and Misty's parenting skills, I have no problem with agreeing that their parenting skills needed a major overhaul, but I still do not feel it had anything do with them or the people they associated with, all though it is possible that the person who did this to L and E used drugs. All just an opinion.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I have asked this question before, but I'm wondering if any new people can answer. This is for those of you that believe Dan was not involved somehow (and, no, he has NOT been cleared!!):

Dan was set to take a plea deal the day before the girls were abducted that would have reduced a 90 year prison sentence to 5 years. He said he had to pull out of the plea deal "because he was not yet ready to go to jail." Again, this was the DAY BEFORE the abduction. He WASN'T READY?! So he had something so important to do that he was willing to sacrifice 85 years of freedom?!

How can you possibly explain that away as just coincidence?

 

[Sunlight]

I have asked this question before, but I'm wondering if any new people can answer. This is for those of you that believe Dan was not involved somehow (and, no, he has NOT been cleared!!):

Dan was set to take a plea deal the day before the girls were abducted that would have reduced a 90 year prison sentence to 5 years. He said he had to pull out of the plea deal "because he was not yet ready to go to jail." Again, this was the DAY BEFORE the abduction. He WASN'T READY?! So he had something so important to do that he was willing to sacrifice 85 years of freedom?!

How can you possibly explain that away as just coincidence?

Perhaps I'm not recalling correctly, but I thought it was Tammy that made that comment about Dan. I don't think he ever said that anywhere did he? MOO

 

[alliemay]

Aside from people who have no where to live and don't mind being in the prison system, who would be ready to go to prison?