Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

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I read a very discouraging article today about a 1991 cold case in which a woman went missing. In the following years, her boyfriend has claimed that he killed her and fed her body into a wood chipper. Why hasn't he been arrested? Lack of physical evidence.

I wonder if that is what we are facing with this case? Could LE know who did it but just can't prove it? I recall that the area where the bikes were found was not particularly secure. I think it was Tammy who mentioned that the family walked around the area, and Dan even rode an ATV through the wooded areas. So who knows what impact that might have had on any physical evidence? And there were all kinds of people searching for the girls around the lake. IMO the area was not secured to the point of being closed to all but LE. I am basing this on my recollection of what I read at the time. If anyone disagrees with my recall, let me know and I will go searching for links.

Regarding DNA, Klunder was ruled out as being involved with this case. While he may have been eliminated due to DNA, I personally feel he was ruled out because he was somewhere else when the girls were taken. IMO, there was no DNA found, or it was degraded due to exposure.

Forgive me for this rambling post. I hope it makes sense!

Thanks for your post you raise some important questions I wish we knew the answers to. Don't worry you aren't rambling and make perfect sense. I hope you are recovering well and and the pain in your wrist has subsided.
 
There was a famous case a while back where the mother was tortured in the media because she was suspected of killing her own daughter or one of her associates doing the deed.

And yet, it turned out to be no one associated with the mother. Hinkiness, in and of itself, does not mean guilty. It's not even proof of guilt.

Oh no, I certainly didn't mean that. I'm sorry if I phrased it poorly. I was thinking of all the sex offenders and mysterious white vans and paddleboats and all the other odd stuff that has come up during the course of the investigation. It's the volume of it, not any particular incident, that has me baffled.
 
I still haven't found TG's full comments about the bikes--I think the articles have aged out-- but I did find this about the location:

The bikes were found in the trail by the gate leading to a rock jetty and water outlet on the lake. The gate wasn’t locked at the time, Abben said.

There’s a chain link fence on both sides of the trail. The purse was on the lake-side of the fence, about 10 feet to the east of the bikes and about 2 feet from the fence, officials said.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_87408126-d217-11e1-aec0-0019bb2963f4.html
 
continued at the link...

The bikes and purse continue to be the best finds so far, Abben said. That’s why six off-duty Cedar Rapids police officers searched the tall grass and trees along the trail and Highway 20 again Monday.

As the group searched, a bicyclist stopped the officers to say he saw the two kids bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.

Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo said he rides the trail often.

“I saw the bikes laying on the path and had to swerve to miss them,” Gamerdinger said. He then went to the Evansdale Police Department to report the sighting.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_87408126-d217-11e1-aec0-0019bb2963f4.html
 
There's a video of that interview with him on his bike talking to the reporters. Also a transcript. It goes on a bit longer. That's the one I'm looking for.


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Oh no, I certainly didn't mean that. I'm sorry if I phrased it poorly. I was thinking of all the sex offenders and mysterious white vans and paddleboats and all the other odd stuff that has come up during the course of the investigation. It's the volume of it, not any particular incident, that has me baffled.

A pattern I've noticed in every single case I have followed that there has always been at least one clue or lead that seemed really promising but when the case is finally solved, turned out to be nothing more than a random coincidence or mistake. For instance, there is a scary level of mistaken eyewitness identification that figures in DNA exoneration cases (72%).

Personally, I really doubt the paddleboats. Other people probably have different nominations for the clue/lead to doubt the most. Anyone else have a clue that they doubt in this case?
 
I still haven't found TG's full comments about the bikes--I think the articles have aged out-- but I did find this about the location:

The bikes were found in the trail by the gate leading to a rock jetty and water outlet on the lake. The gate wasn’t locked at the time, Abben said.

There’s a chain link fence on both sides of the trail. The purse was on the lake-side of the fence, about 10 feet to the east of the bikes and about 2 feet from the fence, officials said.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_87408126-d217-11e1-aec0-0019bb2963f4.html

Sometimes it's good to go back and reread some of the articles. Looking at the gate and lake from the trail, does this mean the east is to the right and closer to the Arbutus Road side?

All this time I had always pictured the purse as being thrown or placed against the gates on the lake side like Elizabeth could have placed it there. Was where the purse was found a clear area or was it weedy like the left side (or right side looking at the picture in the article) where she wouldn't have put it?

Now I am also rethinking about the bikes. Were they laying on the trail east or west from the gate? I had always thought they were on the left side. I also seem to remember a picture of the bikes leaning up against the gates.
 
Sometimes it's good to go back and reread some of the articles. Looking at the gate and lake from the trail, does this mean the east is to the right and closer to the Arbutus Road side?

All this time I had always pictured the purse as being thrown or placed against the gates on the lake side like Elizabeth could have placed it there. Was where the purse was found a clear area or was it weedy like the left side (or right side looking at the picture in the article) where she wouldn't have put it?

Now I am also rethinking about the bikes. Were they laying on the trail east or west from the gate? I had always thought they were on the left side. I also seem to remember a picture of the bikes leaning up against the gates.

I am still looking for definitive answers. Going through AmandaReckonwith's archive but there's So. Much. Stuff.

I also went back through the timeline on the iowacoldcases site; interesting to read it in hindsight. It's clear LE was investigating all avenues from the beginning.


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OK question slightly off topic... Did they cut down a lot of trees around Angel Park? When you drive by now you can clearly see the park and houses beyond. I don't remember seeing that before a couple years ago.

Also, another thing to consider: in summer in Iowa there are a lot of people in the Waterloo area for detasseling the corn (I had no idea what that was until I moved here!). Most of the crews work in groups and go to fields by bus. But field inspectors, supervisors, etc. have their own cars and are largely not monitored. They just have to have a cell on in case of accident or severe weather and check in at the end of the day. Just another thought on more people in town at that time.
 
I am still looking for definitive answers. Going through AmandaReckonwith's archive but there's So. Much. Stuff.

I also went back through the timeline on the iowacoldcases site; interesting to read it in hindsight. It's clear LE was investigating all avenues from the beginning.

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^^^^^^This is the biggest thing I noticed when I started going back through the case from Thread #1 and reading articles at the time... It was treated exactly as a child abduction should be treated.

For me, it got weird when the FBI stepped in and walked back local LE's statements and stated the girls could be alive. By the time the FBI started talking, I believed the girls were dead. I guess the community needed this reassurance to not give up.
 
Now I am also rethinking about the bikes. Were they laying on the trail east or west from the gate? I had always thought they were on the left side. I also seem to remember a picture of the bikes leaning up against the gates.

I don't remember any photos of the actual bikes as they were found that day. The closest thing I've seen was a mockup done in Photoshop that showed facsimiles of the bicycles, gate, etc.
 
OK question slightly off topic... Did they cut down a lot of trees around Angel Park? When you drive by now you can clearly see the park and houses beyond. I don't remember seeing that before a couple years ago.

Also, another thing to consider: in summer in Iowa there are a lot of people in the Waterloo area for detasseling the corn (I had no idea what that was until I moved here!). Most of the crews work in groups and go to fields by bus. But field inspectors, supervisors, etc. have their own cars and are largely not monitored. They just have to have a cell on in case of accident or severe weather and check in at the end of the day. Just another thought on more people in town at that time.

Yes, in working on Angel Park, a lot of trees and other vegetation was removed. I think most people would have wanted that one concealed spot on the nature trail opened up, although there was some upset about trees on the island being cut down.

August 13th would be pretty late in the detasseling season. Depending on the variety, it can start as soon as the middle of June or as late as the middle of July. First they send the detasseling machines through and then the detasseling crews go through and do cleanup, so it doesn't take nearly as long as it did 30 years ago when each and every tassel was pulled by hand. It used to take 2 to 3 weeks for a crew to do an entire field, now it takes less than a week.
 
^^^^^^This is the biggest thing I noticed when I started going back through the case from Thread #1 and reading articles at the time... It was treated exactly as a child abduction should be treated.

For me, it got weird when the FBI stepped in and walked back local LE's statements and stated the girls could be alive. By the time the FBI started talking, I believed the girls were dead. I guess the community needed this reassurance to not give up.

I believed at the time and still believe that the FBI saying they could still be alive was just standard operating procedure that they use in most cases like this. They think that more volunteers will turn out if they think the victim or victims are still alive; I believe this is a fallacy.

And since the FBI seems to say it in every case until they find actual forensic evidence that the victim or victims are dead, I have ceased to believe them. Maybe people who don't follow crime stories would believe them, I don't know.
 
Yes, in working on Angel Park, a lot of trees and other vegetation was removed. I think most people would have wanted that one concealed spot on the nature trail opened up, although there was some upset about trees on the island being cut down.

August 13th would be pretty late in the detasseling season. Depending on the variety, it can start as soon as the middle of June or as late as the middle of July. First they send the detasseling machines through and then the detasseling crews go through and do cleanup, so it doesn't take nearly as long as it did 30 years ago when each and every tassel was pulled by hand. It used to take 2 to 3 weeks for a crew to do an entire field, now it takes less than a week.

What kind of corn do you prefer Grainne Dhu? Sweet corn? I prefer the sweet, but I love it all. So, the girls were abducted on Friday July 13, 2012 and that means detasseling was more than likely full progress?

If you can see the picture, can you tell me:

1. If the fields on the right and left are cornfields?

2. When do cornfields typically get prepared (tilled) for next year's crop?

6693118_G.jpg

ETA: Link for picture: http://kwwl.images.worldnow.com/images/6693118_G.jpg
 
SierraShelby's (TG) comments here on WS regarding swerving around the bikes, etc., can be found here

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5382524


It's been a long time since I've posted on Lyric's and Elizabeth's thread, but I'm here often to read what others post. I still frequently check up on many of the people involved in the case to see if I find anything of interest. I hate that the murders of these two girls remain unsolved. I still have hope that their killer will be someday be caught.
 
What kind of corn do you prefer Grainne Dhu? Sweet corn? I prefer the sweet, but I love it all. So, the girls were abducted on Friday July 13, 2012 and that means detasseling was more than likely full progress?

If you can see the picture, can you tell me:

1. If the fields on the right and left are cornfields?

2. When do cornfields typically get prepared (tilled) for next year's crop?

View attachment 90521

ETA: Link for picture: http://kwwl.images.worldnow.com/images/6693118_G.jpg

Well, this demonstrates why I should not rely on MY memory! Yes, detasseling would have been in full gear in the middle of July.

I love sweet corn! I like the supersweet varieties charcoal grilled. For boiling, I prefer the older varieties that you have to grow at home and pick when the kettle is at the boil--they don't hold their sweetness for long but they have more corn flavour than the supersweet varieties. So you pick, then run for the kitchen as you husk and de-silk the ears. Now I'm jonesing for summer.

1) The field on the right hand side of the frame was in corn. I can't really tell about the left side of the frame, too much snow and too far away. That doesn't mean they'd be planted in corn the next year or had been the previous year. Most farmers follow a 2 or 3 to 1 rotation of corn to soybeans. Corn is more drought tolerant, soybeans more wet tolerant, so some farmers (like the guy who farms the field my house is in the middle of) don't go with a set rotation, they alternate depending on what they think the weather will be like the following summer. MY neighbour is, I swear, a weather witch. He makes his final decision in November and in the 11 summers since I moved here, his prediction has always been correct.

2) Corn fields are harvested and the stubble is deliberately left in place to discourage wind erosion. When I was a teen, it was considered best practice to have "clean" fields after harvesting and before winter by plowing the stubble under. Farmers who didn't get around to fall plowing before the ground froze were looked down on as being shiftless and bound to have more problems with plant diseases the following year. It was common for the snow banks along the roads out in the country to be black with blowing top soil. Finally, people woke up and started taking measures against wind erosion by leaving tall stubble (2 feet or so) in place until spring plowing.

If a farmer is planning to put in corn the following year, the first step is after harvest the previous year before the ground freezes. They run a slit plow over the field so that anhydrous ammonia can be injected into the ground, where time and bacterial action will turn it into nitrogen for next summer's corn crop. The slit plow leaves a narrow slit that you can't see unless you walk right up to the field.

In the spring, right before planting (ideally the day or two before planting) the stubble is turned under during plowing. Then the planter goes through and delivers seed and more fertiliser to the field. So plowing takes place when soil temps at the surface are above 55 F/13 C and the land is, ideally, dry enough not to compact too much but lots of subsoil moisture to nourish the seeds.

While corn fields may seem relatively smooth when you zip by them at 65 mph, when you walk them it is a real chore because the difference between the ridges and furrows is 7 to 9 inches (18 to 22 cm). In the summer, the growing corn plants hold the moisture down so under the leaves, it is really, really humid, even in drought years. The leaves look smooth but have thin, tough edges and can cut you just like a paper cut.

Not all corn is detasseled, only seed corn (which is a small percentage of the acres of corn planted each year). To get hybrid corn, each field is planted with two varieties of corn. The aim is for the female parts (ears) of corn plants of one type to be fertilised by the pollen of the other type of corn in the field. So the variety of corn that will provide the females has their tassels pulled so that they can't pollinate their own variety. Seed corn contracts require that seed corn fields be 99.5% clean of tassels from the variety that is producing the ears. So first they send the cutter through, to cut the tops off the plants just before the tassels emerge because the detasseling machines don't deal well with plants of varying heights. And then the detasseling crew is sent in to clean up the field. They detassel the plants that the machine missed and they also make sure that none of the tassels that were thrown out of the machine landed on the corn plants (which would defeat the whole purpose).

For really tall varieties, the detasselers ride in a detasseler carrier, which has room for 8 to 12 detasselers, depending on the make and model. For the shorter varieties, the detasselers walk the fields.

Typically, a detasseling contractor has several contracts, enough for as many crews as they have to manage. They only go in the fields to do spot checks and then to do the final check with the field supervisor but that doesn't mean they goof off the rest of the time. A contractor who has 4 crews to supervise typically spends all day doing a circuit from crew to crew, spot checking work and making sure everything is running smoothly and efficiently.

It used to be the traditional summer job for teens but these days, relatively few teens will take it. The people in the fields are generally Latino. Detasseling is hard, hard physical labour, even if you are riding a carrier. Before the spread of Round-up ready soybeans, the only job harder for a teen was walking soybeans. You didn't know if your arms were just going to fall off or if you were going to cut them off to stop the pain. There are still farmers who do not use Round-up ready soybeans (organic farmers, mostly) and I haven't seen any light complected teens walking beans in many, many years.
 
A pattern I've noticed in every single case I have followed that there has always been at least one clue or lead that seemed really promising but when the case is finally solved, turned out to be nothing more than a random coincidence or mistake. For instance, there is a scary level of mistaken eyewitness identification that figures in DNA exoneration cases (72%).

Personally, I really doubt the paddleboats. Other people probably have different nominations for the clue/lead to doubt the most. Anyone else have a clue that they doubt in this case?

The misidentification statistics make me assume that at least some of the sightings of the girls are mistaken as to time, place, or people, or all three.

The lack of information released about the bikes inclined me to think LE probably thinks they're very important to the case. Or it might just be that since they were found early on, there was no reason for pictures etc.


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