IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, found deceased, Evansdale, 13 Jul 2012 #38

[CastlesBurning]

Perhaps this would help the case -

This Iowa bill would create a cold case investigations unit

 

[PezCandy]

I hope these girls get some justice soon, sad to believe they haven’t already.

 

[dotr]

After all this time where is the killer, how does he feel, is he looking over his shoulder or feeling pretty confident he got away with murdering two little girls?
Has his life improved or spiraling out of control?
Does he look the same, has he gained or lost weight, grown/cut/coloured his hair/ facial hair?

Did he move to a different neighbourhood, state, or country?
Does he have other victims, looking for victims, or never wants to kill again?
Did he commit suicide?
speculation, imo.

 

[LaborDayRN]

After all this time where is the killer, how does he feel, is he looking over his shoulder or feeling pretty confident he got away with murdering two little girls?
Has his life improved or spiraling out of control?
Does he look the same, has he gained or lost weight, grown/cut/coloured his hair/ facial hair?

Did he move to a different neighbourhood, state, or country?
Does he have other victims, looking for victims, or never wants to kill again?
Did he commit suicide?
speculation, imo.

If he's alive, I pray he hasn't hurt any other children and that he is spending his time looking over his shoulder to see if LE has figured it out yet.
I can't remember.....
Did LE find any useable or trace DNA on the girls. DNA profiling has advanced so much since the girls were murdered.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Personally, I think he’s in prison for another crime. The girls remains were long deteriorated and likely no DNA, so he wasn’t linked to these crimes. Just my opinion.

 

[dotr]

2020
Evansdale murder case still 'very active' a year later | The Gazette
''Officials have declined to say whether DNA evidence was found with Elizabeth and Lyric's bodies.
A reward of over $150,000 is in place for information about the Evansdale case. People with tips can call 1-855-300-TIPS or email ourmissingiowagirls@dps.state.ia.us.''

2019
Father of Elizabeth Collins still has hope case will be solved (kcci.com)
''Authorities aren’t ruling anything out. They’ve looked at more than 300 sex offenders and interviewed more than 1,000 people.
“I do feel like somebody knows something out there, but maybe they’re scared,” Collins said.
Once a month Collins meets with FBI agents for coffee to check in. The FBI remains tight lipped on the details but tell him they are determined to find his daughter’s killer.
“I have hope,” Collins said.
He said he has new hope after hearing online DNA profile websites have recently helped police catch murderers years later.
“I am hoping technology that is on the edge of coming out or something that is recent or new will bring this case to a close,” Collins said.''

CNN.com - Transcripts
''Jane Velez-Mitchell
Police Confirm Bodies are Missing Cousins
Aired December 06, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.''

''I`ve been talking to police sources for the past 24 hours or so, and they stress to me that they have a lot of information, but the reason why they are not releasing much of it is because much it`s information that only the killer or killers would know, and they do not want to jeopardize the investigation.

That said, my sources tell me the following, which we can report: No. 1, bodies were not found, according to my sources, smack dab next to each other. They were found about 40 to 50 feet next to each other.

The second key point is the theory right now is that this was the dump site. That they are looking for the primary murder scene. In other words, where the bodies were found is not where these two little girls were killed.

In addition, I am told...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Let`s stop you right there. You`re saying the location where the bodies were found is, according to your police sources, not where the girls were killed, correct?

LIEBERMAN: That is correct. Police are looking for the primary murder scene.''

 

[Yemelyan]

Personally, I think he’s in prison for another crime. The girls remains were long deteriorated and likely no DNA, so he wasn’t linked to these crimes. Just my opinion.

"Likely no DNA" could be the situation, but police also have a known abduction scene where the girls' belongings (bikes and plastic purse) were found by LE right away and were likely handled by the abductor. The purse in particular was thrown over a fence into a area of high vegetation if I recall. There is a chance that one or more DNA profiles could have been developed from these items. Obviously it would be of lower probative value than DNA or hair found with the victims' remains; however, it could lead to the perpetrator identity and contribute to the prosecution's case in a "totality of the evidence" way.

 

[carbuff]

But they never found the actual murder site, did they?

 

[Yemelyan]

But they never found the actual murder site, did they?

I don't think so, but IMO there is a good possibility that the murder scene was actually the perpetrator's vehicle. What I'm basing that on is a verified LE commenter on this site who talked about this feature of child abduction murders on a different cold case thread here on Websleuths.

 

[carbuff]

I don't think so, but IMO there is a good possibility that the murder scene was actually the perpetrator's vehicle. What I'm basing that on is a verified LE commenter on this site who talked about this feature of child abduction murders on a different cold case thread here on Websleuths.

That would be quite plausible, certainly.

Still hoping...

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I don't think so, but IMO there is a good possibility that the murder scene was actually the perpetrator's vehicle. What I'm basing that on is a verified LE commenter on this site who talked about this feature of child abduction murders on a different cold case thread here on Websleuths.

I can see that if he were abducting one person. Abducting two little girls who are old enough to fight back and murdering both in your vehicle is hard to imagine unless they were both incapacitated. I guess it's possible, but to me it's less likely than a single abduction.

 

[archenemy toenail]

I’m interested to know why it’s thought that there is a separate murder scene. If their bodies were found quite a bit a part, to me that points to the location where they were found being the same as where they were killed. Otherwise, you’d think that the perp would arrive at the location with the girls dead in his vehicle, stop, dump them out together at the same time, in the same spot, and move on.

 

[carbuff]

I’m interested to know why it’s thought that there is a separate murder scene. If their bodies were found quite a bit a part, to me that points to the location where they were found being the same as where they were killed. Otherwise, you’d think that the perp would arrive at the location with the girls dead in his vehicle, stop, dump them out together at the same time, in the same spot, and move on.

As I recall, the spot wasn't accessible by car. He probably carried or dragged them from the parking area one at a time.

After several months, I'm not sure whether they would have been able to use any of the usual forensics to determine whether the bodies had been moved, but there might have been an absence of expected traces beneath the bodies. I have often wondered whether that's a clue that they were kept in another spot for quite some time before being moved to Seven Bridges.

 

[dotr]

I’m interested to know why it’s thought that there is a separate murder scene. If their bodies were found quite a bit a part, to me that points to the location where they were found being the same as where they were killed. Otherwise, you’d think that the perp would arrive at the location with the girls dead in his vehicle, stop, dump them out together at the same time, in the same spot, and move on.

rbbm.
CNN.com - Transcripts
''Aired December 06, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.''

''LIEBERMAN: That is correct. Police are looking for the primary murder scene.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to stop for a second to go to Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst. How would authorities be able to deduce, looking at -- and you`re seeing some of the wooded areas. The girls were found about 25 miles north from where the lake where they disappeared in this wooded area, which is sort of a county park. And now we`re hearing from our sources that they were not killed there. How would cops be able to deduce that from looking around the crime scene?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, they`re not finding certain evidence that should be there because they know -- they probably have a pretty good idea of how the girls died, or at least they most likely do, Jane. But they`re -- things they`re seeing there that wouldn`t -- that aren`t there, that would be there if they had been killed right there in that specific area.''

''A couple of things that we know. I`m told by police sources that they were able to make an eyeball identification, meaning looking at the bodies and knowing in their heads that it was these two girls, very, very quickly. I`m told is that it didn`t appear that the bodies had been out exposed to the elements for the four or five months since they went missing. That`s No. 1.

I`m also told that there was some articles of clothing belonging to these two girls found at that scene, as well. And also we did some researching, and there are 18 registered sex offenders within ten miles of this 125-acre camping area. So that is something that law enforcement is looking at, as well.

But really what they`re focusing on is, and there`s the graphic, is the timeline. They need to figure out what happened when and how long these girls had been out in that park.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Rita Cosby, investigative journalist, I got chills when Jon just said that these bodies had been kept somewhere, and then when they were put there in this wildlife park, they were easily identifiable. I mean, it`s horrifying to think that they were kept in some -- it implies that they were possibly kept in some kind of refrigeration or something that preserved them.''

 

[Yemelyan]

I can see that if he were abducting one person. Abducting two little girls who are old enough to fight back and murdering both in your vehicle is hard to imagine unless they were both incapacitated. I guess it's possible, but to me it's less likely than a single abduction.

In a manner of speaking, the abduction of two children at once by a stranger/predator is so rare that there is not much data to look at to say what is likely compared to the abduction of a single child. I think, though, that the partial profile released by LE in this case states that they think the victims were lured by "quiet coercion" - that's very different from a blitz-style attack where a victim is dragged kicking and screaming to a car. So if LE is right about that, the girls may not have been fighting back until the vehicle was far enough away or in a private enough spot that they could be incapacitated or attacked...they might not have realized the danger they were in until they were already in the car and driven quite far away. Also they were very young and may have been too scared to make a scene, which is, I'm sure, part of what their attacker was counting on when he picked them.

I think for some of these offenders their vehicle is a much more private location than, for example, their home (where other people may come and go, where neighbors can hear what's going on). A vehicle is mobile, can be driven to out of the way places, making it easy to assault a victim or dump a body, and it may actually be easier to control victims in a confined area like a trunk or a backseat.

 

[iamnotagolem]

rbbm.
CNN.com - Transcripts
''Aired December 06, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.''

''LIEBERMAN: That is correct. Police are looking for the primary murder scene.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to stop for a second to go to Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst. How would authorities be able to deduce, looking at -- and you`re seeing some of the wooded areas. The girls were found about 25 miles north from where the lake where they disappeared in this wooded area, which is sort of a county park. And now we`re hearing from our sources that they were not killed there. How would cops be able to deduce that from looking around the crime scene?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, they`re not finding certain evidence that should be there because they know -- they probably have a pretty good idea of how the girls died, or at least they most likely do, Jane. But they`re -- things they`re seeing there that wouldn`t -- that aren`t there, that would be there if they had been killed right there in that specific area.''

''A couple of things that we know. I`m told by police sources that they were able to make an eyeball identification, meaning looking at the bodies and knowing in their heads that it was these two girls, very, very quickly. I`m told is that it didn`t appear that the bodies had been out exposed to the elements for the four or five months since they went missing. That`s No. 1.

I`m also told that there was some articles of clothing belonging to these two girls found at that scene, as well. And also we did some researching, and there are 18 registered sex offenders within ten miles of this 125-acre camping area. So that is something that law enforcement is looking at, as well.

But really what they`re focusing on is, and there`s the graphic, is the timeline. They need to figure out what happened when and how long these girls had been out in that park.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Rita Cosby, investigative journalist, I got chills when Jon just said that these bodies had been kept somewhere, and then when they were put there in this wildlife park, they were easily identifiable. I mean, it`s horrifying to think that they were kept in some -- it implies that they were possibly kept in some kind of refrigeration or something that preserved them.''

Somehow I thought this was all just idle speculation, I don’t remember reading from an official source that the bodies were intact and easily identifiable and that they were likely stored somewhere. That completely takes me back to my original suspect so scratch my thinking the guy is in prison.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Somehow I thought this was all just idle speculation, I don’t remember reading from an official source that the bodies were intact and easily identifiable and that they were likely stored somewhere. That completely takes me back to my original suspect so scratch my thinking the guy is in prison.

If they were intact and easily identifiable I hope that also means some usable DNA of the perp was found.

 

[carbuff]

Somehow I thought this was all just idle speculation, I don’t remember reading from an official source that the bodies were intact and easily identifiable and that they were likely stored somewhere. That completely takes me back to my original suspect so scratch my thinking the guy is in prison.

I don't think it was ever confirmed, but I don't recall that it was ever denied, either.

Even if it's true, there are lots of reasons why a person's remains don't decay as quickly as expected. Environment, conditions, accident like being under something that reduces insect activity (not an exhaustive list--I'm not a forensic expert) It doesn't have to mean that either the bodies were stored or the girls were kept captive for a while before being killed.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

In a manner of speaking, the abduction of two children at once by a stranger/predator is so rare that there is not much data to look at to say what is likely compared to the abduction of a single child. I think, though, that the partial profile released by LE in this case states that they think the victims were lured by "quiet coercion" - that's very different from a blitz-style attack where a victim is dragged kicking and screaming to a car. So if LE is right about that, the girls may not have been fighting back until the vehicle was far enough away or in a private enough spot that they could be incapacitated or attacked...they might not have realized the danger they were in until they were already in the car and driven quite far away. Also they were very young and may have been too scared to make a scene, which is, I'm sure, part of what their attacker was counting on when he picked them.

I think for some of these offenders their vehicle is a much more private location than, for example, their home (where other people may come and go, where neighbors can hear what's going on). A vehicle is mobile, can be driven to out of the way places, making it easy to assault a victim or dump a body, and it may actually be easier to control victims in a confined area like a trunk or a backseat.

I suppose. I just can't see this with two girls this age unless they were tied up or drugged.

 

[Yemelyan]

I suppose. I just can't see this with two girls this age unless they were tied up or drugged.

I would also suggest another possibility for how the girls were controlled...there could be two perpetrators in this crime. The placement of the bikes, the attempt to conceal the purse (the former two things done in a very short period of time), the abduction itself from a pretty well-traveled and open park, and then the placement of their bodies when found, all make me wonder about this.