IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm returning this thread. If any of you have questions regarding other forums, send PMs. Don't take up space here for that sort of thing. We don't promote other forums. If anyone has any questions, concerns, complaints, problems, etc. about any other posters here at Websleuths, send me a PM.

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[docwho3]

Also, correction, the photos say in "properties" that they were created today, but according to the sub-album's heading, the last photos in it were posted June 29, 2006. Either these albums contain pictures of actual kidnapped children and possibly Gosch, or they are just some sicko's collection and this whole thing has been a cruel hoax. Either way, I'm truly unnerved.

The properties will say that when you view a pic that is on the internet because the copy you see is downloaded to your comp as a temp file just as you view it. You are not actually viewing the properties of the image that was uploaded and is sitting on the server. You might try saving a copy of the pic and then opening it with notepad or wordpad and read the header info to see if it gives date time info and program that created the file.

 

[FourthBase]

The properties will say that when you view a pic that is on the internet because the copy you see is downloaded to your comp as a temp file just as you view it. You are not actually viewing the properties of the image that was uploaded and is sitting on the server. You might try saving a copy of the pic and then opening it with notepad or wordpad and read the header info to see if it gives date time info and program that created the file.

Thanks doc, I didn't know that.

Since the sub-album's last entry was June 26th, then it's almost beside the point to see exactly when the photo files were created... The point is: They were created before August 27th. Does this necessitate that the photos aren't really of kidnapped children and/or aren't of Gosch? Not at all. Who knows where the original photos came from, certainly not "TV or a movie". But it makes it likely IMO that whoever gave them to Noreen Gosch is probably connected to that site.

I'd still like to know if Noreen was given polaroids or prints... I had heard polaroids, but seeing the TV news video on johnnygosch.com, with what appear to be computer printouts, and now these photos on the sicko site... I wonder now if the polaroid thing was inaccurate.

 

[Roy Harrold]

From the Des Moines Register:
"One West Des Moines detective confirmed the images have appeared on a Web site that caters to people with bondage fetishes. Iowa officials have also enlisted the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children in hopes of identifying the youths involved through archived photos."

The police are well aware of the website, that the photos have been sitting on for at least a month.

If the person claiming responsibility for sending the photos to Noreen Gosch's associates is telling the truth, then they were sent to her by one of her associates - perhaps trying to be helpful, perhaps trying to give her "a solid lead".

 

[inquiringmindz]

That site just sickens me. I am disturbed and appalled! Can you imagine what these poor children have had to endure? Whether the photos are real or have been staged the seed of thought has been planted in the minds of these poor boys just makes me :furious: . These photos just make it all too real. So many of these pictures are new. The thought that an adult could do this to any child is just shockingly evil.

When you run your cursor over the photos of JG and the three boys, the date added/downloaded to that album is April 20, 2006.

Whatever owns this disgusting collection needs to be questioned and then hung by their -----. Where would you find a collection such as this? Even if the pictures have been scanned in, downloaded, or passed around someone needs to be held accountable for originally having them to begin with.

 

[Trocaria]

There is a school of thought that wonders if Jimmy Gibson isn't really the adult and now hiding out Johnny Gosch. This Jimmy person now throws open a whole website of disturbing images that could blow a lot of lids off of a lot of cold cases on back burners.

Da-hang. It just gets more and more amazing. Who ever ya are, keep it coming! Let's roll this thing on wheels! :clap:

 

[Mr. E]

The site is very disturbing. I can't allow myself to believe the pictures were staged, as the boys in many pictures seem either drugged or terrified.

What also bothers me about the site is some of the captions to the pictures. Like there is one where a boy is tethered to a big gameshow wheel (maybe a screencap from a gameshow?), and the caption says something like "Pull his pants down while you can!" Another one showed a kid on a bed, I think, and a caption which read something like, "I'd like one of these for my bed."

Sick. Just sick. It pains me to think that those boys might be hurting or scared. If it's all staged and a joke, that's just painful, too.

I did notice that the color photo of the one they claim is Johnny Gosch doesn't have a brand on the arm. Kid looks like Johnny Gosch to me. And Noreen is so sure. His own mother, you know?

 

[FourthBase]

From the Des Moines Register:
"One West Des Moines detective confirmed the images have appeared on a Web site that caters to people with bondage fetishes. Iowa officials have also enlisted the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children in hopes of identifying the youths involved through archived photos."

The police are well aware of the website, that the photos have been sitting on for at least a month.

If the person claiming responsibility for sending the photos to Noreen Gosch's associates is telling the truth, then they were sent to her by one of her associates - perhaps trying to be helpful, perhaps trying to give her "a solid lead".

Who is "the person claiming responsibility for sending the photos to Noreen Gosch's associates"? What did that person say, and where can we read it?

If the photos don't depict Gosch, then whoever sent these photos to "Noreen Gosch's associates" probably did so in order to discredit the Franklin Coverup.

 

[laini]

If this Jimmy Gibson really did give the photos to TimWhite, the guy working for/with Noreen, then someone is lying. Either Noreen didn't really find them on her doorstep, but rather got the photos from one of "her people", then lied about how she got them. Or the man working for/with Noreen (Tim White) sent them to her rather anonymously, which doesn't sound like someone working with her to find her son at all. I just don't get any of this.

 

[Roy Harrold]

laini - there's a very long and complex history of associations going on in this case.

Essentially, it seems as though a long string of people have taken advantage of Noreen Gosch over the years. The most outrageous thing about that, is that several of these people have been sex offenders with an interest in boys.

Paul Bishop, who contacted Noreen Gosch shortly after Johnny went missing and planted the seeds of the "satanic child sex slave" theory in her mind, was arrested for possession of child *advertiser censored* in 2005 after police received reports that he was hosting drugs& booze parties for young boys in his home.
Paul Bonnaci, who claims to have participated in kidnapping Gosch and to have sexually assaulted him in a hotel room, was in prison for molesting a boy when he made this "confession" to John DeCamp.
Rusty Nelson, who claims to have been the photographer for the pedophile ring alleged in the conspiracy, really is a convicted child pornographer (but wasn't part of an organized ring).

Then there is retired FBI agent Ted Gunderson, who has insiuated himself into several high-profile cases and always seems to weave a confused tale of satanic cult & government agency conspiracy into them that essentially destroys any credibility they may once have had. Tim White appears to be an associate of his.

To get an idea of just how complex the inter-relationships get, and of the break-ups, feuds and inter-necine warfare going on amongst them, try googling "open letter to Noreen Gosch" and read Barbara Hartwell's take on "what's going on". Bear in mind that many of the other personalities involved now shun her also.

It's almost impossible to separate fact from fantasy, where these people are involved.

 

[FourthBase]

but wasn't part of an organized ring

How do you know that?

 

[laini]

Roy- Thanks for responding. It is so confusing and very sad. So I guess one thing that we do know is some of her (Noreen's) "people" don't necessarily have her best interest at heart.

 

[laini]

One thing I believe, though, is that West Des Moines LE are not "keystone cops". They are dedicated just as many/most LE is, IMO. THey have kids themselves and I am sure want to find Johnny, whether he is alive or dead. I don't believe they dismiss everything Noreen finds as garbage just becasue they think she is nuts. I believe they do look into things as they comes up.

JMO

 

[Roy Harrold]

One thing I believe, though, is that West Des Moines LE are not "keystone cops". They are dedicated just as many/most LE is, IMO. THey have kids themselves and I am sure want to find Johnny, whether he is alive or dead.

I totally agree with that! I know several police officers and I like and respect them all. There is the occaisional bad person in law enforcement, as there is in any profession, but as a rule they are competent and dedicated people who deserve our respect.

These conspiracy theories, the "Franklin Cover-up" and "Conspiracy of Silence" allege that local and national law enforcement agencies and their personnel are controlled by a massive child sex slave conspiracy and I find that very offensive - particularly as the principle "sources" for these conspiracy theories are convicted sex offenders!

 

[godzorphan]

One thing I believe, though, is that West Des Moines LE are not "keystone cops". They are dedicated just as many/most LE is, IMO. THey have kids themselves and I am sure want to find Johnny, whether he is alive or dead. I don't believe they dismiss everything Noreen finds as garbage just becasue they think she is nuts. I believe they do look into things as they comes up.

JMO

I suggest people actually READ The Franklin Cover Up, so that when people accuse Paul Bonacci of being a "convicted sex offender" that they actually know what charges were brought against him and why, and why he was given such extraordinary punishment in an effort to keep him from continuing to talk about who the real criminals and child molesters, kidnappers and murderers were. I would be very concerned about anyone posting who is hell-bent on assassinating the messengers - i.e., Noreen Gosch, Paul Bonacci.

 

[Roy Harrold]

"the real criminals and child molesters" are the people with criminal convictions for sex offenses against children, such as Paul Bonacci.

It boggles my mind, that people choose to make rationalizations and excuses for convicted sex offenders - attempting to portray them as heroes - and at the same time promote slanderous allegations against law enforcement personnel.

The facts are this: the "Franklin Cover-up" conspiracy theory and it's champions have generated the arrest & conviction of ZERO sex offenders. Police agencies generate the arrest and conviction of hundreds of sexual predators every year, and solve dozens of cold cases every year.

It's not hard to see who the real heroes are.

 

[maima]

I would like to speculate that the person who created the website with the bondage photos has many more photos, perhaps stored on his computer as well as printed photos in his home. I would guess that some of the photos in his possession could be more graphic (i.e. illegal to own). Also, if there are more photos, there might be even more children to trace/identify.

If LE can track down and identify this person using IP addresses or whatever, I'd say they'd have plenty of reason to charge and arrest him--at the very least for having child *advertiser censored*. But if LE has known about this bondage website for a long time, perhaps they already know who created it (and have no grounds to arrest him).

 

[Jeana (DP)]

The Franklin Cover Up and other interesting articles:

http://www.thelawparty.com/FranklinCover-up.htm


WARNING - ADULT CONTENT

 

[Trocaria]

One thing I believe, though, is that West Des Moines LE are not "keystone cops". They are dedicated just as many/most LE is, IMO. THey have kids themselves and I am sure want to find Johnny, whether he is alive or dead. I don't believe they dismiss everything Noreen finds as garbage just becasue they think she is nuts. I believe they do look into things as they comes up.

JMO

Given how despite eyewitness accounts of Johnny being forced into a van, despite witnesses coming forth about seeing a man talk to Johnny, seeing someone tailing him and taking photos of him, the LE of West Des Moines choose to ignore all this and in one case even urged a witness to recant his story.
Later on,they also accused the Mother of having done something to Johnny.

It is my observation, in my opinion that I say again, they dropped the ball then, they drop it still by digging up this person in FL to say that the photos are old and have been on the internet since the 70's. :liar:

Something is very wrong here. VERY wrong.

 

[Roy Harrold]

It's true that some police forces did not give missing persons cases - especially cases involving male adolescents - the priority that they deserved, at the time Johnny Gosch went missing. Sometimes they still don't, as this excellent series of articles from the Seattle Intelligencer show:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/missing/

Nevertheless, child *advertiser censored* and child pornographers were vigorously pursued and prosecuted at that time - as they are today. It simply isn't true, as alleged in "The Franklin Cover-up", that the FBI and other police agencies have protected child pornographers. Here's a really informative interview with a man who was one of the FBI's top people in this area at the time Gosch went missing:

http://www.obscenitycrimes.org/RogerYoung.cfm

There was no internet in the late 1970's, but child pornographers were busy trading their obscene wares with each other back then in other ways. This seems to be a nearly universal obsession for them, to trade their horrific materials and even make them publicly available in various ways. It's very likely that the pictures in question have been in circulation since the 1970's, and may have been found in collections of child *advertiser censored* since that time.

What has never been found in such collections, (and the FBI and Interpol have 10's of thousands of seized images), is pornographic pictures of officially missing children. If there had been *advertiser censored* pictures of Johnny Gosch, it's inconceivable that they would not have been traded around and turned up in collections seized by police over the years.