IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1
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I realized my link may not answer all your questions and I may not be able to either. According to the story her husband was also in on it so they knew where she lived. She is alive (I'm guessing) because she does not present a risk to them. Like you asked for before, she has no proof so what risk does she present. I agree it is very hard to believe, but declassified documents exist of the governments envolvement. I can't explain why the documents exist if what they outline doesn't. May I add that during my military service people in the CIA were putting drugs in the body bags.2sisters said:
As to why Johnny did this and didn't do that, to me is not material, with the understanding of what the conditions did to his mental development. It is very likely that he is now a pedophile also.
My only connection with any of this is my experiences in cult deprogramming.
I have no proof only my experiences which I can't deny.
p.S. your a fast reader!
I know that cults exist and I am not an expert in deprogramming, I know that there are deprogrammers or whatever you would call them and I know what they do. I just don't think it is the case here. It just doesn't add up. Sorry.
that's ok. I only believe that Decamps story is plausable based on my own experience of cult behavior/trauma/programming.
The story is a big one and hard to swallow. There was a lot going on. I have to break it up to make sense of it. Cppweb's posting leaves a lot unanswered for me. There seems to be support from other areas of info for Decamps story.
I also have a copy of the Decamp video that was suppose to be aired on Discovery Channel, but was pulled.
A search on the word "xeper" on the web will get you some of the perp sites.
The story is a big one and hard to swallow. There was a lot going on. I have to break it up to make sense of it. Cppweb's posting leaves a lot unanswered for me. There seems to be support from other areas of info for Decamps story.
I also have a copy of the Decamp video that was suppose to be aired on Discovery Channel, but was pulled.
A search on the word "xeper" on the web will get you some of the perp sites.
VespaElf
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Capt. said:
Blaster is banned from here because-surprise!-he's a scam artist who claims to be an abducted child ,now grown,who was abducted by one of your crazy cults!
Backing him up does nothing for your credibility!!!!!!!!
I am not seeking credibility with you. Cults exist. Mind control exists. Sometimes they are one and the same.messiecake said:
Do some study on this, other than the NE that you have indicated you read in Walmart.
Yes they are crazy cults, go to xeper.org for an example.
You are not able to explain why declassified documents refer to MK projects.
You have absolutly no background in this area.
You have repeatedly used "Coast to Coast, words such a wacko, and UFO's to attemp to discredit and control threads on this forum. I never said anything about UFO's, you did. I did not bring up Coast to Coast, you did.
Rather than look at the facts you choose to try to "win" threads by terms to trigger by exageration. You are found out.
You can not prove a negative.
It is like this, I can not prove that you are not a moron, but you may be able to prove that you are.
The medical community accepts mpd/did, mind control, and cults, because they have to deal with it. They are the ones that treat missing persons when they are found alive. Get over your fear of the truth.
Rather than somebody that is truly concerned with the health of the missing, you are a person obsessed with crime in the news.
You have not responded to me after I provided references from MCNEC on statistics that support Johnny being alive. After you said they didn't. Could be your too proud to admit your wrong.
May I say again,
Explain how declassified documents exist on mind control. They are available from the national archives.
It is amazing the power you wield, being able to cast people from the list because they don't believe as you do. Let me test your great powers, get me kicked of the list because I support the scenero you provided on Blaster. Not that I support Blaster, but I know the scenero is valid.
Now, go pet your bull(shiit)dog.
P.S. I don't see how anybody can claim any compassion for the missing and discredit somebody that claims they have been in a like situation as a scam artist. Who is scamming who here?
mom-a-licious
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I've been reading some posts about far-reaching, international conspiracies among some very powerful people and organizations devoted to child slavery, and some sort of "Monarch" project involving brainwashing and mind control.
Of course I do know that kids are abducted, and sexually abused, and they are threatened, etc, and that sometimes they may even be sold.
My question is this: If such a vast, powerful, moneyed and politically strong group of people are running such a network, why in the world would an organization such as this need to kidnap any paper-boys, and why would they have to use a common street criminal to do so?
Any organization such as the one being referred to would have access to any number of kids, from any number of sources. They could have a vast "stable" of people giving birth to kids, which in just a few short years they would be able to have access to for whatever reason they wanted. Not to mention all the people you read about from time to time who are actually trying to sell their kids for drugs, or all the runaways on the street who would go with someone like this for the promise of drugs or money or just a place to stay.
Many sources, yet they would kidnap someone off the street?
This sounds like a horrible scenario, but it is certainly no more far-fetched and actually more easy and less risky for such a powerful, rich group of people to use some of the tactics noted above.
I suppose one might argue that they want someone who has just led a "normal" life, so they can practice their mind-control techniques; etc.
Most people though who want an "object" to gratify their unusual desires want just that, though---an "object"; as long as it looks and maybe talks the part, they don't care if it was plucked from suburbia then "brainwashed" first before it comes to them.
And, if the need to mind-control was so necessary, these same all-powerful people could raise a kid to a certain age in a very "normal" manner, then do all the brainwashing they wanted starting at a certain age. Also, as the kids would have been born and raised in the world of the "cult", they wouldn't have any outside families or pasts to go back to, to tell them any stories of what was going on inside the organization.
SO...I really wonder why any such powerful group would want or need to go through all the random selection, kidnapping and brainwashing to get what they want, when if they are so rich and connected they could set up a process that would get them what they want without all the trouble.
Makes the whole child-abduction/far-reaching conspiracy thing seem fairly far-fetched to me.
Of course I do know that kids are abducted, and sexually abused, and they are threatened, etc, and that sometimes they may even be sold.
My question is this: If such a vast, powerful, moneyed and politically strong group of people are running such a network, why in the world would an organization such as this need to kidnap any paper-boys, and why would they have to use a common street criminal to do so?
Any organization such as the one being referred to would have access to any number of kids, from any number of sources. They could have a vast "stable" of people giving birth to kids, which in just a few short years they would be able to have access to for whatever reason they wanted. Not to mention all the people you read about from time to time who are actually trying to sell their kids for drugs, or all the runaways on the street who would go with someone like this for the promise of drugs or money or just a place to stay.
Many sources, yet they would kidnap someone off the street?
This sounds like a horrible scenario, but it is certainly no more far-fetched and actually more easy and less risky for such a powerful, rich group of people to use some of the tactics noted above.
I suppose one might argue that they want someone who has just led a "normal" life, so they can practice their mind-control techniques; etc.
Most people though who want an "object" to gratify their unusual desires want just that, though---an "object"; as long as it looks and maybe talks the part, they don't care if it was plucked from suburbia then "brainwashed" first before it comes to them.
And, if the need to mind-control was so necessary, these same all-powerful people could raise a kid to a certain age in a very "normal" manner, then do all the brainwashing they wanted starting at a certain age. Also, as the kids would have been born and raised in the world of the "cult", they wouldn't have any outside families or pasts to go back to, to tell them any stories of what was going on inside the organization.
SO...I really wonder why any such powerful group would want or need to go through all the random selection, kidnapping and brainwashing to get what they want, when if they are so rich and connected they could set up a process that would get them what they want without all the trouble.
Makes the whole child-abduction/far-reaching conspiracy thing seem fairly far-fetched to me.
My guess to your question. I believe in 20 yrs there as been a lot of change within the sub culture we are talking about. I believe they do have a large supply of bodies now, thou they would be open to easy pickings. Back when Johnny was taken, the supply was not as plentyful. Nowdays most are taken from their own ranks. Such has been the case a person I know of, who had been reabducted twice after trying to leave the group. Why use a street criminal? Because of lower risk.
The subculture has many resources yes, but not always located where they want them.
Normal life ain't it. Ages are. Those that have had incest at an early age have a higher level of disassociation. It is easier to fragment these subjects. The age that a child learns primary colors is important. If they are not able to disassociate they really don't have much of a use except to introduce trauma to their attending members. They use animals in the same way.
If a person wants an "object" for their desires they have more problems than just that. Their desires are violent, their sex is violent, they act out in violence.
Desires has that connotation of sex and I don' believe that is highest purpose. Like a drug mule or to do something without being able to trace it back. Someone to control. I really don't like the term brainwashed as it is something I reserve for the spritual cults, say like Moonies or Patty Hearst(political group). The level of control I am talking about comes from introducing trauma for long periods at the edge. This is an effort to create alters and program those alters from the most most intense fear immaginable. The mafia was able to control by fear, but it is still not as intense as what I am referring to.
In some cases I understand the MC starts at birth as a premmie. The more trauma a person can endure the stronger they are. Only the strong last. True there are those that know nothing else but the cult life and others that didn't last that long.
"SO...I really wonder why any such powerful group would want or need to go through all the random selection, kidnapping and brainwashing to get what they want, when if they are so rich and connected they could set up a process that would get them what they want without all the trouble."
I really don't believe cold kidnapping is practiced as much as in the past for some of the reasons you have given. The programming part still exists so that they can control by fear and the "process".
I agree, it is the most far-fetched disturbing thing I have ever heard. I say that everyday I look at someone that was exposed to it.
May I add some government info: The study of the Tuskagee airmen with untreated syphilis went on for 40 years. After 30yrs a medical report was published in the Journal for Medicin. After 10 more years it was halted because an investigative journalist wrote about it and then people decided to be upset about it.
Senator Kennedy held a closed door investigation on the declassified papers that were found with MK content. This was in the mid 70's. The transcript is available online.
Clinton started an investigative commite to investigate reported radiation tests on U.S. citizens. 52 people gave testimony of the radiation test which also included MK. This is available online. It was in 1995 that Clinton felt it was needed to pass a presidential order banning experimentation on U.S. citizens in light of the investigation. This is found online in his new presidential library.
I imagine messie will attack this post also. I don't know of any cold cult abductions that have taken place, I only think it is very plausable in Johnnys case and others in the same local 3 hour radius.
The subculture has many resources yes, but not always located where they want them.
Normal life ain't it. Ages are. Those that have had incest at an early age have a higher level of disassociation. It is easier to fragment these subjects. The age that a child learns primary colors is important. If they are not able to disassociate they really don't have much of a use except to introduce trauma to their attending members. They use animals in the same way.
If a person wants an "object" for their desires they have more problems than just that. Their desires are violent, their sex is violent, they act out in violence.
Desires has that connotation of sex and I don' believe that is highest purpose. Like a drug mule or to do something without being able to trace it back. Someone to control. I really don't like the term brainwashed as it is something I reserve for the spritual cults, say like Moonies or Patty Hearst(political group). The level of control I am talking about comes from introducing trauma for long periods at the edge. This is an effort to create alters and program those alters from the most most intense fear immaginable. The mafia was able to control by fear, but it is still not as intense as what I am referring to.
In some cases I understand the MC starts at birth as a premmie. The more trauma a person can endure the stronger they are. Only the strong last. True there are those that know nothing else but the cult life and others that didn't last that long.
"SO...I really wonder why any such powerful group would want or need to go through all the random selection, kidnapping and brainwashing to get what they want, when if they are so rich and connected they could set up a process that would get them what they want without all the trouble."
I really don't believe cold kidnapping is practiced as much as in the past for some of the reasons you have given. The programming part still exists so that they can control by fear and the "process".
I agree, it is the most far-fetched disturbing thing I have ever heard. I say that everyday I look at someone that was exposed to it.
May I add some government info: The study of the Tuskagee airmen with untreated syphilis went on for 40 years. After 30yrs a medical report was published in the Journal for Medicin. After 10 more years it was halted because an investigative journalist wrote about it and then people decided to be upset about it.
Senator Kennedy held a closed door investigation on the declassified papers that were found with MK content. This was in the mid 70's. The transcript is available online.
Clinton started an investigative commite to investigate reported radiation tests on U.S. citizens. 52 people gave testimony of the radiation test which also included MK. This is available online. It was in 1995 that Clinton felt it was needed to pass a presidential order banning experimentation on U.S. citizens in light of the investigation. This is found online in his new presidential library.
I imagine messie will attack this post also. I don't know of any cold cult abductions that have taken place, I only think it is very plausable in Johnnys case and others in the same local 3 hour radius.
--Darn I hate Vbulletin Editors--
O.K. I have read all the threads from my original post. I must say I find it hard to believe that actual people actually believe the Noreen/Decamp/NLC story.
Fraklin Coverup - Yes it did happen, the missing 39 million was in fact traced and accounted for. Mr. King had a lavish lifestyle, a gambling problem and was a drug/alcohol addict. That spells trouble for anyone who is in charge of a financial institution. It's funny that all those "thousands of photos" that Rusty Nelson has in his posession have never been seen.
Gary Caradori - His plane crash was a result of engine trouble and a well known flaw in the model of aircraft he had. It is unfortunate that his plane was not outfitted with the replacement part. Read the FAA accident report. As far as the "military vehicles" picking up his plane is pure and utter crap. I have talked to the neighboring farmers and towns folk, neither of them report "military" personel or equipment. I have even seen local photos of the cleanup from local media outlets and citizens.
Leonard John Gosch - Johnny's father. I have talked to the close neighbors that lived in the same culdasact as the gosch's. They all have stated that Mr. Gosch was a strange character and they do not trust him. It is also a known fact that the Gosch's were going through marital problems at the time and before the abduction. Doesn't mean alot but has some clues here.
The Johnny Funds - I have researched and added up all the donations that the Gosch's have recieved since the day after to today's date. The total donation $ is around 1.9 million dollars. That's a bunch of cash which can spell motive. Where did all the money go? That is what the US Attorneys office in Des Moines wants to know also. Could this be spelling out another entirely different scam? Could of the whole thing be faked for monatary gain?
Eugene Martin - Clearly a runaway from a abusive family. Used the Gosch saga as cover.
John Decamp - Got tons of cash for his political runs for office. Where exactly did all that money come from. I think he is as sinister as the made up stories about the other business peoples in Omaha. Do your homework people and dont make stories up unless you see the facts and figures. Research is the only true option in solving cold cases.
So you see really this thing had gotten way out of hand and control, now both sideas are blaming eachother with wild accusations and rumors of which all have no merit.
Logic only tells us if the Gosch kid was kidnapped by a pedophile he is most certainly deceased. As per 99% all other sexually motivated abductions.
Do the homework and you will see the culprit(s)
O.K. I have read all the threads from my original post. I must say I find it hard to believe that actual people actually believe the Noreen/Decamp/NLC story.
Fraklin Coverup - Yes it did happen, the missing 39 million was in fact traced and accounted for. Mr. King had a lavish lifestyle, a gambling problem and was a drug/alcohol addict. That spells trouble for anyone who is in charge of a financial institution. It's funny that all those "thousands of photos" that Rusty Nelson has in his posession have never been seen.
Gary Caradori - His plane crash was a result of engine trouble and a well known flaw in the model of aircraft he had. It is unfortunate that his plane was not outfitted with the replacement part. Read the FAA accident report. As far as the "military vehicles" picking up his plane is pure and utter crap. I have talked to the neighboring farmers and towns folk, neither of them report "military" personel or equipment. I have even seen local photos of the cleanup from local media outlets and citizens.
Leonard John Gosch - Johnny's father. I have talked to the close neighbors that lived in the same culdasact as the gosch's. They all have stated that Mr. Gosch was a strange character and they do not trust him. It is also a known fact that the Gosch's were going through marital problems at the time and before the abduction. Doesn't mean alot but has some clues here.
The Johnny Funds - I have researched and added up all the donations that the Gosch's have recieved since the day after to today's date. The total donation $ is around 1.9 million dollars. That's a bunch of cash which can spell motive. Where did all the money go? That is what the US Attorneys office in Des Moines wants to know also. Could this be spelling out another entirely different scam? Could of the whole thing be faked for monatary gain?
Eugene Martin - Clearly a runaway from a abusive family. Used the Gosch saga as cover.
John Decamp - Got tons of cash for his political runs for office. Where exactly did all that money come from. I think he is as sinister as the made up stories about the other business peoples in Omaha. Do your homework people and dont make stories up unless you see the facts and figures. Research is the only true option in solving cold cases.
So you see really this thing had gotten way out of hand and control, now both sideas are blaming eachother with wild accusations and rumors of which all have no merit.
Logic only tells us if the Gosch kid was kidnapped by a pedophile he is most certainly deceased. As per 99% all other sexually motivated abductions.
Do the homework and you will see the culprit(s)
I hate to ask this question, but I saw the refrences to the Goschs' and I don't want to accuse them of anything BUT do they belive this story or are they involved in the alleged scam? I hate to think that a family would profit off of their missing child but its possible I guess. It is a sad story no matter how it happened.
2sisters all I can tell you is if you take the "hollywood" feel out of this case you can come down to reality and it all makes sense. I personally believe that someone in the Gosch family knows. Yes I think that someone in the immediate family is involved.
The Federal Gov wouldn't have a 12 year long case if they didn't believe that something is a miss here.
We will all find out in a few months as the case is finally coming to an end. I have been told indictments will be un sealed and arrests will be made.
The Federal Gov wouldn't have a 12 year long case if they didn't believe that something is a miss here.
We will all find out in a few months as the case is finally coming to an end. I have been told indictments will be un sealed and arrests will be made.
Oh yeah another thing......if Johnny was kidnapped into a pedophile ring, surely there would be pictoral evidence floating around the web. So far there is nothing that has showed up to this point.
Why I know all this? I am a law enforcement liaison that writes studies on famous and old cases for educational purposes. This case has came into my desk about 13 years ago as per the AMW shows. I was there for all the segment filmings as a advisor adn I have met all the parties involved including Rusty Nelson.
Again I must say that the show was cancelled due to the fact the FBI and SEC started an investigation into the financial status of the not for profit groups and family financials.
I have written a book about the whole case starting weeks before the abduction to present day. It is a complete detailed date by date refrence.
Note: Paul Bonacci has indicated that he was also involved in the Wetterling case, well he stuck his foot in his mouth on that one because MN DCI knows who the perp is but do not have the evidence to make an arrest. So by Mr. Bonacci making those statement just shows you he is full of crap and is a mixed up nut case as well as a pedophile (Book explains his positions)
It is completely sad and is a travisty of peoples faith and true hearted actions all for nothing. There are going to be many people ticked off once the truth is told.
Why I know all this? I am a law enforcement liaison that writes studies on famous and old cases for educational purposes. This case has came into my desk about 13 years ago as per the AMW shows. I was there for all the segment filmings as a advisor adn I have met all the parties involved including Rusty Nelson.
Again I must say that the show was cancelled due to the fact the FBI and SEC started an investigation into the financial status of the not for profit groups and family financials.
I have written a book about the whole case starting weeks before the abduction to present day. It is a complete detailed date by date refrence.
Note: Paul Bonacci has indicated that he was also involved in the Wetterling case, well he stuck his foot in his mouth on that one because MN DCI knows who the perp is but do not have the evidence to make an arrest. So by Mr. Bonacci making those statement just shows you he is full of crap and is a mixed up nut case as well as a pedophile (Book explains his positions)
It is completely sad and is a travisty of peoples faith and true hearted actions all for nothing. There are going to be many people ticked off once the truth is told.
miles_draken
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Well, if all this truth is out there then why isn't somebody spilling the beans! Noreen Gosch even admitted in an interview that she believes her husband was involved in the whole thing. A lot of bad seeds roll out when we tip over the apple cart folks, there is the possibility a lot of this is true, and some very powerful people are involved. People involved around this case have been killed or silenced in some other way, facts are facts. When you illiminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, is the answer. I hope the truth does come out and we find out what really happened. Eugene Martin by the way is considered to be kidnapped by the same people who took Johnny.
Miles, just about 2/12 months ago there was a team of law enforcement agents with Iowa DCI, FBI and West DesMoines PD and the Polk County Sheriff's dept. digging up around the area where John Gosch had his hobby farm northwest of Des Moines. John used to sell seed and used this plot to do his seed/planting tests and store all his personal stuff including a Korean war era jeep. Well in that jeep under the passenger seat (There is a compartment) was a bunch of tapes, tapes that were telephone recordings of Noreen for a period of three months after the AMW story. Now that is strange. Those tapes are now in the hands of the Iowa DCI for review.
This is what I think went down.
Leonard and Noreen were having marital problems. With Leonard's psychotic history I think he hatched a scheme to have his kid taken by an associate in order to make his marriage stronger. You see Johnny was a momma's boy all the way and Leonard was jealous of that. I think the original scheme was to have Johnny go missing and then the father would find him thus making the marriage better.
But it got all out of hand and he paid his associate to "take out the kid" for fear of being found out. Financial records show $5000.00 taken out of his checking account 2 days after the kidnapping. Sept. 07 1982. He has stated in interviews by law enforcement that he used the money to get supplies to help find his son. But no proof of any materials was ever found.
Phone records do indicate a phone call to the Gosch residence at 3:27am Sunday morning lasting 32 seconds and coming from the Souix City exchange. They dont have the number only the area code due to phone technologies at that time.
As far as the rest, it's all made up by a bunch of right wing christian fundamentalists that were seeking a political seat and this is where John Decamp comes in along with the Nebraska Leadership Confrence and many others. Hell at one tie everybody and their brother cashed in on this case.
There are no satanist/pedophile/secret goverment/shadow government groups responsible, there is no connection to the New World Order and Mind Control. It just is not feasible. Only in Hollywood my friend.
This is what I think went down.
Leonard and Noreen were having marital problems. With Leonard's psychotic history I think he hatched a scheme to have his kid taken by an associate in order to make his marriage stronger. You see Johnny was a momma's boy all the way and Leonard was jealous of that. I think the original scheme was to have Johnny go missing and then the father would find him thus making the marriage better.
But it got all out of hand and he paid his associate to "take out the kid" for fear of being found out. Financial records show $5000.00 taken out of his checking account 2 days after the kidnapping. Sept. 07 1982. He has stated in interviews by law enforcement that he used the money to get supplies to help find his son. But no proof of any materials was ever found.
Phone records do indicate a phone call to the Gosch residence at 3:27am Sunday morning lasting 32 seconds and coming from the Souix City exchange. They dont have the number only the area code due to phone technologies at that time.
As far as the rest, it's all made up by a bunch of right wing christian fundamentalists that were seeking a political seat and this is where John Decamp comes in along with the Nebraska Leadership Confrence and many others. Hell at one tie everybody and their brother cashed in on this case.
There are no satanist/pedophile/secret goverment/shadow government groups responsible, there is no connection to the New World Order and Mind Control. It just is not feasible. Only in Hollywood my friend.
blueclouds
Former member
cppweb said:
That's right, a Hollywood story exactly. Do you think the dad set up someone to "fake" an appearance by Johnny years later or do you think Noreen knows and just made stuff up to sell her book?
Noreen came up with that story for Paul Bonacci and John Decamp in order to get that Million dollar judgement. She saw $$ in her eyes because she is basically broke. She thought she would make tons of cash off her book, but it basically flopped and sold only about 2000 copies. Didn't even make enough money to cover the publishing fees.
TisHerself
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So what about the other paper boy who went missing 2 years later? Do you think Leonard had something to do with that?
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