IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1

[Trocaria]

That's not being fair to Barney! Barney had heart and made an effort to solve crimes.

Yer right, yer right. Barney would have done more. Too bad he didn't work in Des Moines.:doh:

 

[HollywoodBound]

So is Paul Bonacci a kidnapped child or not? This seems so important to the story but I can't find it discussed anywhere.

 

[inquiringmindz]

SNIP--


Iowa police got a tip the photos were taken in Hillsborough County and were investigated by Zalva years ago. Now, Zalva and sheriff's officials are digging through thousands of reports, looking for clues about the photographs.
"They literally have someone who's been going through all the archives," said sheriff's spokeswoman Debbie Carter.

Zalva, 56, vaguely remembers the photos, he says, but he doesn't think any charges were filed in that investigation. It's been so long ago, he can't remember the names of the boys in the photos or precisely when he worked on the case.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/09/22/Hillsborough/Man_to_get_another_go.shtml

 

[inquiringmindz]

"The Colonel" was the man who Bonacci said ran a ranch in Colorado. Bonacci said the last time he saw Johnny was back in 1986 at that same ranch. Johnny, whose hair was now dyed black, and was renamed "Mark", had attempted to run away. When they caught up with him, they branded Johnny on his right buttock, like a piece of livestock. "

Did Paul or anyone describe HOW Gosch attempted to flee? Where he went to, how far did he get? Was it, by any chance, as far as Denver, CO?

I have already PMed another member of how one day in Denver in the summer of 1986, while riding the the city bus up Colfax from the capital, I looked up to see a young man getting on, a young man that looked very much like Johnny Gosch. The orbital area, nose and the mouth were very like the photos we all had been seeing. But what held me in check, was that this guy wore glasses and had either dark hair or very dirty hair so that it only looked dark. He was not dressed well, striped shirt, ill fitting pants and yet...there was something about him...
Half of me wanted to go over to him, try to start a conversation to see what he would say or how he would react if I called him by name. The other half cautioned that this was after all the 0 bus on Colfax and not the best place to make new friends. And besides, what kind of kidanpper lets his prey ride public transit alone and buys him glasses to boot?

Now I wonder and after reading this, I wonder even more.

I do know, as I told this other member, that the area around the Denver capital, especially the Centinial building, was ground zero for male hookers, especially the "chickens" and the hawks who hunted for them.
(I was a daytime security guard there. Even in the day, on the weekends, the meat market did a brisk business).

So I am only left to wonder. This latest flurry of activity makes me hopeful that there will be an ending to this story soon. I am prepared to believe the impossible, especially before breakfast.

Here's a snip mentioning CO.


AMW aired a series of interviews with Jimmy in March 1993, in which Jimmy talked about his friendship with Johnny. He said they had made a blood oath to protect and help each other and to trust each other always. Jimmy said he was with Johnny at the ranch in Colorado for four years and that when Jimmy was overheard talking about escaping, he too was branded. Jimmy lifted his pant leg and revealed a large brand on his leg similar to the brand Paul Bonacci had seen on Johnny.

http://www.americasmostwanted.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=26170

 

[Roy Harrold]

Here's a ranch full of boys, in Colorado:

http://www.coloradoboysranch.org/cbrweb/site/

although this one in Washington state would probably interest you more. Lots of sexual abuse:

http://lbloom.net/ok21.html

 

[maima]

So is Paul Bonacci a kidnapped child or not? This seems so important to the story but I can't find it discussed anywhere.

I would like to know this, too. Who exactly is Paul Bonacci? Is this his real name? How did he become part of the pedophile ring (was he a runaway? was he kidnapped?) Where was he born? Where did he grow up? Who are his parents (and where are his parents, if they're still alive?).

 

[Roy Harrold]

"Bonacci claims that this organized ring picked him up at the age of eight and forced him into prostitution. He says he was photographed, blackmailed and later forced to be a decoy to lure young boys, like Johnny, into waiting vehicles"

It would be interesting to obtain his school records and see how regular or erratic his attendance was.

 

[HollywoodBound]

If he really is kidnapped I think his school attendence would not just be erratic it would be he was never there. I can't imagine a group kidnapping him and occasionally bringing him back to his parents so he can go to school for a few days and then the ring takes him away again.

 

[Mr. E]

"The Colonel" was the man who Bonacci said ran a ranch in Colorado. Bonacci said the last time he saw Johnny was back in 1986 at that same ranch. Johnny, whose hair was now dyed black, and was renamed "Mark", had attempted to run away. When they caught up with him, they branded Johnny on his right buttock, like a piece of livestock. "

Did Paul or anyone describe HOW Gosch attempted to flee? Where he went to, how far did he get? Was it, by any chance, as far as Denver, CO?

I have already PMed another member of how one day in Denver in the summer of 1986, while riding the the city bus up Colfax from the capital, I looked up to see a young man getting on, a young man that looked very much like Johnny Gosch. The orbital area, nose and the mouth were very like the photos we all had been seeing. But what held me in check, was that this guy wore glasses and had either dark hair or very dirty hair so that it only looked dark. He was not dressed well, striped shirt, ill fitting pants and yet...there was something about him...
Half of me wanted to go over to him, try to start a conversation to see what he would say or how he would react if I called him by name. The other half cautioned that this was after all the 0 bus on Colfax and not the best place to make new friends. And besides, what kind of kidanpper lets his prey ride public transit alone and buys him glasses to boot?

Now I wonder and after reading this, I wonder even more.

I do know, as I told this other member, that the area around the Denver capital, especially the Centinial building, was ground zero for male hookers, especially the "chickens" and the hawks who hunted for them.
(I was a daytime security guard there. Even in the day, on the weekends, the meat market did a brisk business).

So I am only left to wonder. This latest flurry of activity makes me hopeful that there will be an ending to this story soon. I am prepared to believe the impossible, especially before breakfast.

I remember reading in the news in the late 80s (I still have a newspaper clipping somewhere) that there was a possible sighting of Johnny Gosch in an undisclosed midwestern city. A woman claims a frightened-looking boy ran up to her and said, "My name is John David Gosch. Please help me lady!" At that time, if memory serves, he was dragged away by unknown persons. I could try to find the newspaper article. I used to clip everything about JG. Maybe this was the running away time that was mentioned by Bonacci, the time that caused Johnny to be branded.

 

[Roy Harrold]

If he really is kidnapped I think his school attendence would not just be erratic it would be he was never there. I can't imagine a group kidnapping him and occasionally bringing him back to his parents so he can go to school for a few days and then the ring takes him away again.

Yes. That's why school records would be very helpful - either to demonstrate that he was not attending school over long periods and thereby bolster his claims about the pedo ring - or to show that his attendance rate was normal, which would seem improbable if he was being used as a prostitute all over Nebraska and the United States.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I remember reading in the news in the late 80s (I still have a newspaper clipping somewhere) that there was a possible sighting of Johnny Gosch in an undisclosed midwestern city. A woman claims a frightened-looking boy ran up to her and said, "My name is John David Gosch. Please help me lady!" At that time, if memory serves, he was dragged away by unknown persons. I could try to find the newspaper article. I used to clip everything about JG. Maybe this was the running away time that was mentioned by Bonacci, the time that caused Johnny to be branded.

If I'm not mistaken, that was in Oklahoma. I'll try to find a source for that.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Here it is... it was in Oklahoma, but no particular city was listed.

Mar 1983
Sightings

A 12-year old boy, matching Johnny's description approached a woman leaving a store in Oklahoma. He says, "I'm John David Gosch. Please help me." Before the woman could do anything, two men approached the boy and lead him away. She later reported this to police in October 1983 after seeing Johnny's photo during the NBC Movie "Adam." She immediately phoned authorities and the FBI later confirmed that they believe it was Johnny Gosch.

http://amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=26170

 

[loganone]

To keep this post kinda on topic. I am working on a 3d model of the face of the mystery man in the photo on johnnygosch.com, If I get anywhere with it, I will be glad to share the photo to those that would like it.

The humble newbie

I found that the quality of the photo of the mystery man doesn't lend itself to creating a 3d model. While I am still working on it, I don't think it will be of much use, at least not from the software Im using

 

[Roy Harrold]

I found that the quality of the photo of the mystery man doesn't lend itself to creating a 3d model. While I am still working on it, I don't think it will be of much use, at least not from the software Im using

I'm in awe of the fact that you'd be able to do that, create a 3d model from a photo, at all!

Thank you, for putting the talents you possess in this area to work on missing person cases.

 

[William R Thomas]

Caradori NTSB Report

here is the official NTSB report for Gary Caradori, and his son. If you know anything about accident reports for aircrashes, this one is amazingly blank. There are no notes anywhere, it is an empty report.

However, that aside, here is what is even stranger. The media reports of the Caradori accident state that:

"The National Transportation Safety Board found that the probable cause of the crash was "a loss of aircraft control for an unknown reason, while en route in instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) on a dark night, and the pilot exceeding the design stress limits of the aircraft while attempting to recover from uncontrolled flight. Factors related to the accident were: pilot fatigue and probable spatial disorientation of the pilot and/or an instrument malfunction."

Which leads one to believe that he wandered into cloud cover, or rain or something of that nature, lost control, and couldn't regain it.

However, if you look at the official report, He filed an IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) flight plan, he wasn't flying visually, which means he had planned to encounter poor visibility/bad weather. This would also mean that he published a flight plan in advance, and I'm guessing it was reported at Miegs Field(Which Mayor Daley tore down in the middle of the night), which was passed onto Aurora Center, which controls a large portion of the flights throughout the country.

It is HIGHLY unlikely that Wadman, who was chief of police in aurora at the time, could have had ANY acees to Aurora center. It is guarded like fort knox, and this was PRIOR to 911.

AND, to add another fact, his plane crashed in Ashton, IL, NOT Aurora, which even though it makes for a much better story, is not true.

He was flying a very high powered, modern aircraft, (I have attached a photo)that is very well equipped. He was an IFR rated pilot. He was on a long leg of a long trip, and was most likely using autopilot, especially since A) he was flying IFR, and B) because he had filed his flight plan and would not be allowed to deviate from it, unless he called in his changes, which to my knowledge, he didn't.

I simply do not buy, now more than ever, that he simply lost control, and couldn't recover.

Where is the backseat, and where is his briefcase?

Ashton, here I come.

 

[HeartofTexas]

AND, to add another fact, his plane crashed in Ashton, IL, NOT Aurora, which even though it makes for a much better story, is not true.

Sorry... I'm not clear on what makes crashing in Aurora a better story. I've probably just forgotten, but what's significant about Aurora?

I find it more than a little difficult to accept that both the backseat and the briefcase have never been located. If the NTSB can find the black boxes from huge plane crashes, where there is an overwhelming about of debris (and much of it burned), then I find it pretty hard to believe they couldn't find either a backseat or briefcase. And even more so when you realize he had already telephoned someone to say he had the "smoking gun" of this case with him.

 

[loganone]

Caradori NTSB Report

here is the official NTSB report for Gary Caradori, and his son. If you know anything about accident reports for aircrashes, this one is amazingly blank. There are no notes anywhere, it is an empty report.

Not that it means much.. but just about all the reports from that time are amazingly blank, at least the ones I looked at doing a search on the NTSB search site.

One thing that strikes me very odd about that report though. I thought his son was with him, yet the report only lists 2 people as being on the plane.

Does this prove or disprove anything.. no.. it just adds to the mystery.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Logan, was Mr. Caradori the pilot of the plane? If so, then I guess it's conceivable there were only two on the plane.

 

[loganone]

Logan, was Mr. Caradori the pilot of the plane? If so, then I guess it's conceivable there were only two on the plane.

True, very true, something I didn't think about, its to early in the morning to think.

Does anyone have any news reports on this crash. I have searched but come up wanting more. Where are the reports that the seat was missing and other items that were not recovered. And are there any good photos of the crash site?

Thanks

 

[HeartofTexas]

Here's one report I found, Logan:

St. Louis Post-Dispatch - November 15, 1990

Evidence Lacking For Crash Ruling SOURCE: Associated Press DIXON, Ill. (AP) - A Lee County, Ill., coroner's jury says there is not enough evidence to determine if the deaths of two people in a plane crash July 11 were accidental, murder or suicide.The jury ruled this week that the manner of death of Gary A. Caradori, 41, and his 8-year-old son, Andrew, was undetermined. The two died when their plane crashed into a cornfield near Ashton in north-central Illinois....