IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #2

[rbeck]

They didn't say anything about a pedophile ring. Connie Chung even said it didn't include any government or high ranking officials. I read most of the articles too. They had gay men prostitutes and they paid them. That's their business if they want to involve themselves in that kind of stuff. With all of this being said you still haven't convinced me that the government kidnapped Johnny. We are talking a kid from Des Moines Iowa. There are lots of pedophiles out there anybody could have grabbed Johnny. However like I have said he was at church camp 2 weeks before. rbeck I believe you must be a relative or friend of Noreen's since you have your mind made up as to what happened to Johnny and because you think Noreen is a sane person. I am sorry but you will never get any of us to believe what you do about this case. IMO Happy Holidays!

They didn't say anything about a pedophile ring. Connie Chung even said it didn't include any government or high ranking officials.

I dont want to be rude correcting you Teresa but It does include high ranking government officials.you didnt hear her right listen to it again and leave out the word or. Connie Chung said" it didn't include any government high ranking officials."

quote from Washington Times July 10 1989
"According to documents obtained by The Times, the homosexual prostitution ring includes not only Reagan and Bush administration officials but military officers, congressional aides and U.S. and foreign businessmen with close social ties to Washington's political elite."
I know that Cabinet Member Elizabeth Doles' Labor Department advisor and liason to the White House Paul Balach resigned because he was caught.There is video of Bob Dole out there talking about this its hard to find. I guess hes not considered high ranking

you said it doesnt say anything about underage prostitutes they are all gay men

quote from Washington Times July 1989
"Mr. Spence's influence with the Washington power elite appeared almost limitless, demonstrated by his ability to arrange midnight tours of the White House. The Times has confirmed that Mr. Spence arranged at least four midnight tours of the White House, including one June 29, 1988, on which he took with him a 15-year-old boy whom he falsely identified as his son."

I repeat "15-year-old boy "

Quote from Washington Times July 26 1989 page 1A
"The June 29 tour, according to several of Mr. Spence's friends, occurred after the Washington lobbyist visited the ABC television studios of Nightline and introduced a 15-year-old boy, identified as his son, Will, to anchorman Ted Koppel"

I repeat "15-year-old boy"

im not trying to convince you of anything just throwing the facts out there .research this stuff for yourselves as other people have and put the pieces together. It is not "far fetched" to quote some people to think that Washington power brokers use under age kids to blackmail each other. It happens all the time and It doesnt matter where their victims are from they travel all over the nation procurring kids.I dont know Noreen Gosch id like to meet her. Im not related to anyone in Iowa or Nebraska. I have a 2nd cousin who is a hospital administrator in Lincoln but he is not from there just moved there for the job.

 

[Eire]

One 15 year-old boy hardly a pedophile ring makes. Not saying it's right, but from what you quoted, there is no mention of the boy being used for sexual purposes either.

Many of us have researched this stuff ourselves and we don't come to the same conclusion as you do. Telling us over and over to research it when we have isn't going to make us believe it. Just because we don't believe this conspiracy theory stuff doesn't mean we haven't researched or read about. As has been said many times over recenlty, many people here and elsehwere have been researching this case for years. We've all familiar with the Franklin Files website too.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

. I am sorry but you will never get any of us to believe what you do about this case. IMO Happy Holidays!

Oh so you are speaking for every one on the forum now huh? LOL, Merry Christmas.

 

[rbeck]

One 15 year-old boy hardly a pedophile ring makes. Not saying it's right, but from what you quoted, there is no mention of the boy being used for sexual purposes either.

Many of us have researched this stuff ourselves and we don't come to the same conclusion as you do. Telling us over and over to research it when we have isn't going to make us believe it. Just because we don't believe this conspiracy theory stuff doesn't mean we haven't researched or read about. As has been said many times over recenlty, many people here and elsehwere have been researching this case for years. We've all familiar with the Franklin Files website too.

Oh for goodness sakes read between the lines what do you think a 15 year old boy is doing with a gay man who is a notorious pimp for Washington elites? maybe their helping him with his homework? and you think there was only one 15 year old boy of course not? I guess you think Monica Lewinsky was the only woman who had an affair with old Bill Clinton . He had a string of women she was the only one he got caught with and got alot of press.and what are you talking about "conspiracy theory stuff" there is no theory here these are facts people have gone to jail for. From what youve been saying it doesnt look like you have researched anything about Mr Spence and his underage prostitution ring if you think its a theory. The justice department sealed cases of evidence investigative reporter Paul Rodriguez uncovered i wonder why? they are covering their *advertiser censored*. and as i said before no ones trying to make you believe anything just putting the facts out there

 

[Eire]

Right, got it. Because I don't buy your conspiracy theory, I haven't done my homework. No, I just don't believe the tin foil hat brigade on this one and I won't no matter how many times you tell people to look at your "facts." Again, you've assumed quite wrongly that nobody but you did any research. Try again and next time, stuff that superior attitude of yours in your pocket before you start. Next time you want to get personal and assume what I think, let me know. I can't seem to locate my spare car keys and since you have such insight in to what I think and do maybe you can tell me where they are. :doh:

What I believe about Bill Clinton and Monica has no place in a thread about a missing child, so I'll just leave it out.

You're not winning any converts over and your attitude is a big part of the reason. It's a conspiracy, they're all out to get us. Yeah. OK.

One more thing, when did anybody got to jail over kidnapping Johnny and selling him into sexual slavery? That's what this thread is about after all. Nobody has, therefore, it's just a theory and one that reeks of conspiracy. So, yes, I have every right to call it conspiracy theory stuff.

 

[2sisters]

IMO Noreen is hindering her own case and has been for years. I am bowing out of this thread now b/c it is going in circles, never any new info, just her supporrters giving the same thing over and over. The focus always goes to her pedo group and b/c of her this case will never be solved. IMO she is either insane or is trying to throw LE off her or Johnny's dad. I am starting to belive the latter.
Either way Johnny is dead and has been for 25 years. I hope he is found one day and the killer brought to justice.

 

[rbeck]

Right, got it. Because I don't buy your conspiracy theory, I haven't done my homework. No, I just don't believe the tin foil hat brigade on this one and I won't no matter how many times you tell people to look at your "facts." Again, you've assumed quite wrongly that nobody but you did any research. Try again and next time, stuff that superior attitude of yours in your pocket before you start. Next time you want to get personal and assume what I think, let me know. I can't seem to locate my spare car keys and since you have such insight in to what I think and do maybe you can tell me where they are. :doh:

What I believe about Bill Clinton and Monica has no place in a thread about a missing child, so I'll just leave it out.

You're not winning any converts over and your attitude is a big part of the reason. It's a conspiracy, they're all out to get us. Yeah. OK.

One more thing, when did anybody got to jail over kidnapping Johnny and selling him into sexual slavery? That's what this thread is about after all. Nobody has, therefore, it's just a theory and one that reeks of conspiracy. So, yes, I have every right to call it conspiracy theory stuff.

wow. could I be even more misunderstood?

 

[Teresa Larson]

This is suppose to be a thread for Johnny Gosch not about some government conspiracy or about the Franklin Credit Union. I could care less about how many affairs Bill Clinton had too so let's not even go there What people do in their own personal life is nobody else's business and it doesn't make them criminals. If that was the case every one of the Kennedy's would be in jail That issue is a whole different subject. The bottom line is Johnny was kidnapped by somebody he knew and he has been dead for a long time. There is only 2 ways this can be solved If somebody came forward or possibly if they found his body. I personally do not need to do any research I have discussed this many times with my P.I friend over the years.

 

[Pandora]

Remains discovered by hunters south of Des Moines. No word as yet whether male or female. . . .
http://www.kcci.com/news/14773129/detail.html

 

[Mr. E]

Mount Ayr is about 80 miles from West Des Moines, almost a straight shot down the freeway, according to google maps.

 

[Rhett]

Is there any word on how long the remains have been there or if they can tell if it is male or female. Of course we would all hope that Johnny is alive but wouldn't it be something if it were him?

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

This is suppose to be a thread for Johnny Gosch not about some government conspiracy or about the Franklin Credit Union. I could care less about how many affairs Bill Clinton had too so let's not even go there What people do in their own personal life is nobody else's business and it doesn't make them criminals. If that was the case every one of the Kennedy's would be in jail That issue is a whole different subject. The bottom line is Johnny was kidnapped by somebody he knew and he has been dead for a long time. There is only 2 ways this can be solved If somebody came forward or possibly if they found his body. I personally do not need to do any research I have discussed this many times with my P.I friend over the years.

There is another thread for people who do not believe in a government conspiracy. You might enjoy it better. You really can't tell people that this thread is only for your point of view because it is against the TOS. All theories are WELCOME here.

And as far as "PI's" (yawn). They are a dime a dozen...

 

[Teresa Larson]

There is another thread for people who do not believe in a government conspiracy. You might enjoy it better. You really can't tell people that this thread is only for your point of view because it is against the TOS. All theories are WELCOME here.

And as far as "PI's" (yawn). They are a dime a dozen...

This thread is about Johnny Gosch NOT the government!! This isn't just my opinion it's a fact. There isn't a thread for people who don't believe in government conspiracies. This is for cold case files, the missing etc. My P.I friend worked on this case so he knows what he is talking about first hand. Trying to get us all to believe rbeck's theory about the government is not what this is all about. It's about trying to find out what happen to Johnny. I did NOT try to tell anybody that this thread was only for my point of view!!!! I think you need to reread what I wrote. I don't know where you live but P.I.s are not a dime a dozen where I live.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

This thread is about Johnny Gosch NOT the government!! This isn't just my opinion it's a fact. There isn't a thread for people who don't believe in government conspiracies. This is for cold case files, the missing etc. My P.I friend worked on this case so he knows what he is talking about first hand. Trying to get us all to believe rbeck's theory about the government is not what this is all about. It's about trying to find out what happen to Johnny. I did NOT try to tell anybody that this thread was only for my point of view!!!! I think you need to reread what I wrote. I don't know where you live but P.I.s are not a dime a dozen where I live.

Here ya go...I even bumped it up for you.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43756&page=12

 

[Teresa Larson]

Here ya go...I even bumped it up for you.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43756&page=12

You should have been a little more specific. You said there was a forum for people that didn't believe in government conspiracies. You didn't state it was concerning Johnny. You can believe what ever you want but I know Johnny was kidnapped by someone he knew. It's funny that his dad used to go with him all of the time and then the one day he doesn't Johnny gets kidnapped. I do have a question Did the government officials drive Johnny back to Washington or did they fly?

 

[2sisters]

back to the topic at hand...
Marc Allen
http://charleyproject.org/cases/a/allen_marc.html
Eugene Martin
http://charleyproject.org/cases/m/martin_eugene.html
Johnny
http://charleyproject.org/cases/g/gosch_john.html
All 3 are regular, non descript early teen boys. brown hair blue eyes, except for one who has brown eyes. typical build just average kids last seen out on the street either walking or delivering papers. The only diference is in Johnny who seems large for his age.
Then one state down a few years later, enough time to move away and start over...
Scott is a little younger, but same type of kid
http://charleyproject.org/cases/k/kleeschulte_scott.html
Iowa borders MN so then there is jacob Wetterling.
http://charleyproject.org/cases/w/wetterling_jacob.html
If there is a serial abductor/murderer the it would make sense to jump from place to place. These boys seem typical boys, maybe someone was watching and saw a good opportunity while they were out walking. What do you all think? I know it is easy to group any missing kid with another and find similarities and this seems pretty dumb, but sometiems the simplest explanation is the right one.

 

[Teresa Larson]

Since Johnny Gosch and Eugene Martin were both kidnapped in the same way. It makes me wonder if somebody at the newspaper had something to do with their disappearance. It's odd that Johnny's dad went with him and Eugene's brother went with him but the one day they are not with them they both disappear.

 

[loganone]

Interestingly enough, today I created a google map that plotted these cases and it is scary how close the areas really are.

back to the topic at hand...
Marc Allen
http://charleyproject.org/cases/a/allen_marc.html
Eugene Martin
http://charleyproject.org/cases/m/martin_eugene.html
Johnny
http://charleyproject.org/cases/g/gosch_john.html
All 3 are regular, non descript early teen boys. brown hair blue eyes, except for one who has brown eyes. typical build just average kids last seen out on the street either walking or delivering papers. The only diference is in Johnny who seems large for his age.
Then one state down a few years later, enough time to move away and start over...
Scott is a little younger, but same type of kid
http://charleyproject.org/cases/k/kleeschulte_scott.html
Iowa borders MN so then there is jacob Wetterling.
http://charleyproject.org/cases/w/wetterling_jacob.html
If there is a serial abductor/murderer the it would make sense to jump from place to place. These boys seem typical boys, maybe someone was watching and saw a good opportunity while they were out walking. What do you all think? I know it is easy to group any missing kid with another and find similarities and this seems pretty dumb, but sometiems the simplest explanation is the right one.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

back to the topic at hand...
Marc Allen
http://charleyproject.org/cases/a/allen_marc.html
Eugene Martin
http://charleyproject.org/cases/m/martin_eugene.html
Johnny
http://charleyproject.org/cases/g/gosch_john.html
All 3 are regular, non descript early teen boys. brown hair blue eyes, except for one who has brown eyes. typical build just average kids last seen out on the street either walking or delivering papers. The only diference is in Johnny who seems large for his age.
Then one state down a few years later, enough time to move away and start over...
Scott is a little younger, but same type of kid
http://charleyproject.org/cases/k/kleeschulte_scott.html
Iowa borders MN so then there is jacob Wetterling.
http://charleyproject.org/cases/w/wetterling_jacob.html
If there is a serial abductor/murderer the it would make sense to jump from place to place. These boys seem typical boys, maybe someone was watching and saw a good opportunity while they were out walking. What do you all think? I know it is easy to group any missing kid with another and find similarities and this seems pretty dumb, but sometiems the simplest explanation is the right one.

Exactly! Devlin isn't the first nor the last that could pull something like this off. They just have to be related.

 

[pixies]

Wow, Johnny's mom is all sorts of crazy! I read her book and it is hard to tell if she has always had mental issues or the loss of her son pushed her over the edge. I know it would me but wow. She is crazy.

It seems obvious that Johnny was kidnapped and probably murdered shortly afterwards. Probably someone in the neighborhood or close by.
Remember this didn't happen in 2007. People back then still lived in a world where child molestation was hush-hush and rarely reported. A perv could have lived nearby without anyone knowing.

About his dad. Seems like his dad was having an affair with another woman. That is why he was acting *weird* not because he killed his kid.

I do not understand why anyone would believe anything that crazy woman has to say. Sex-rings and auctions??? Do you know how many people would have to be involved to keep that secret?? Impossible.

I respect everyones opinion. This keeps Johnny alive and in the public eye. I hope we find out one day.