IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
child sex rings make me ill. especially when upper levels of US Government are involved. Here are some articles from the Washington Times all gathered on one website. A male prostitute who had been previously arrested for possession of obscene material, production of obscene items involving a juvenile, oral sodomy and possession of cocaine got involved with B Frank (Mass Representative). The prostitute ran a "call boy" operation from Frank's home and later from a principal's school (Dr G Massaro who went on to become a priest!- I googled him). Many of the call boys were teens. The detective I spoke to said people (possible mafia) in NY hired people to kidnap Midwest children putting them into prostitution in NY and in Washington. They would blackmail the clients and get a lot of money out of them. I wish I could interview people to see if they had a list of children. This is a lot of reading, but well worth it.
http://www.voxfux.com/features/bush_child_sex_coverup/article_archive.htm#article15
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/...reyed_on_prominent_gay_men_in_the_1960s_.html
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Tv5imLGgIdwxfbPwr0cvIDg&bvm=bv.49405654,d.aWc
 
He's the type but it can't be him, he was arrested for Michelle Steele's murder on July 30th 1982, and never released.
 
Just thinking about Johnny's case again. Growing up in Iowa, this one was always heavy on my mind.

I think that it is rather safe to assume that the other two Des Moines young men who went missing (Mark Allen and Eugene Martin) were related to Johnny's disspearance or no?

Also, does anyone actually believe it was Johnny actually visited his mother all those year later?
 
Just thinking about Johnny's case again. Growing up in Iowa, this one was always heavy on my mind.

I think that it is rather safe to assume that the other two Des Moines young men who went missing (Mark Allen and Eugene Martin) were related to Johnny's disspearance or no?

Also, does anyone actually believe it was Johnny actually visited his mother all those year later?

I live only a few hours from Des Moines, and Johnny's disappearance was one my mom would always remind me about when I went out and about. I've always been convinced that Marc and Eugene's disappearances are linked to Johnnys. There are way to many coincidences there. As for if Johnny visited his mom or not, I am also undecided about that.
 
I don't believe he visited her either. There is no conceivable way I would let my son walk back out the door after being kidnapped no matter what reason was given.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
 
I read about this case over and over, information overload. I know the photos Noreen received have been looked over more than once but in this one in particular; http://www.justiceforjohnnygosch.com/PHOTOS.php
there looks like a pill bottle on the table, a business card, what time does the clock say?, a stack of books and magazines on the floor, would this information not be enlarged with today's technology and studied for details? Maybe not anything useful but still.
Any most important, why the pictures, regardless from whom? What was the point of them, was someone trying to tell her what happened to her son (and others), were they rubbing it in "look what I can get away with?". It is perplexing.
I pray many times for Johnny and the boys in the photos return but sadly I believe in my heart they may no longer be alive. Just used, abused and disposed of.
 
I just smiled wide seeing this post here. I am going to sit on my hands for a bit and then make a well rounded post. I have actually read every single post here (my gosh the differences in 2005 and now!), plus did wayback machine on a few nsfw websites. Watched everything I could get my hands on and now to write my thoughts.
 
Let's hear it Astrokitty! It's so exciting when things are getting discussed again. Three days is long enough to get your thoughts together,lol.
 
Alright folks! Here we go ;)

Disclaimer: I am not saying any of this to upset anyone. I am not saying any of this to claim I know more than anyone else, I am simply putting reality into the case because it looks like reality checked out long ago.

And yes I'm familiar with everything surrounding it.

Here's my theories:

Johnny was picked up by the same person(s) that also kidnapped Eugene. He was most likely murdered soon after.

Johnny was possibly harmed by his father or someone associated with his father, like the Mistress. It pains me to say that and I'm not stating it because the dad is aloof or out of the press at this point, I'm saying it because of somethings that leads up to Johnny missing.

Before Johnny went missing, his father had been carrying on an affair with another woman. This explains a lot of the phone calls that were abrupt no talk/hang-up's that Johnny's mother had encountered. This is long before cell phones, so a Mistress calling a home isn't something unheard of.

The morning that Johnny went missing (and can I just take this second to mention how I hate calling him Johnny when whether alive or deceased he'd likely go by John) someone called for about 30 seconds and had a conversation with someone.

Johnny's father didn't go on the route with him but later left the home and discovered the bag. I have often thought that either:

A) Johnny's father had taken the call in the AM and snuck out to meet his Mistress.
B) Johnny's father knew someone was going to take his son, thus providing a means to exit the relationship.
C) It is all just one huge coincidence.
D) The Mistress phoned at X o'clock to see if John's father was going on the route with him to confirm if she could see him or not.
E) A person who ran that route was calling to see if Johnny was coming on time or could be there earlier.

I believe Johnny's mother lives in a huge denial about the length of time her husband was unhappy and was seeing someone else.

While Johnny was missing, The father and the Mistress (who posed as his wife) went into banks together. This to me is a huge red flag that's often over looked. Why did she need to pose as her?

Could a man be so desperate to exit his relationship he decided to get rid of his son (why not the other kids though?). Or could the mistress be so jealous of the son she did this (Shades of Kyron). Or did it just all happen to be around the same time someone was out there snatching boys like Eugene who also hasn't been found but likely also murdered.

I do not think that Johnny visited his mother in the 90's. I do believe however someone did and that someone is an individual that she still has contact with, speaks to and possibly was sending money to. I have suspected this Paul character from the start as being the person and that is why she went to the prison to see him to "get answers". I think in her fragile mind she's willing to believe anything.

Regarding the man who worked as a white house journalist etc; I don't blame him for not giving up DNA. I want to make a huge huge statement about that. Giving someone your DNA is risking behavior. If a woman who seems totally unhinged is hounding you for your DNA profile, would you give it to her? Would you trust that she wouldn't plant it on something and then state he's part of this ficticious pedophile ring? I wouldn't trust her! It's also very likely he committed a crime that would put him in prison for a very long time and because he has no record that has his DNA on file, giving his DNA to people who are working with the FBI could evolve into this man getting charges brought up against him for any # of crimes.

I have a feeling he commits identity theft and break-in's (in the past) along with credit card theft. Just a hunch. I'm sure he wants to keep escaping jail time; so no - I dont' find it odd that he won't come off his DNA to a bunch of people believing in insane things.

Regarding the mother:
I go between feeling sorry for her and wondering if she's suffered a nervous break-down and has since that time just been on auto-pilot. I do believe a man visited her, I do think it is Paul. I do think she's been sending him money and I do believe she's been conned.

Regarding the pedophile ring and human auctions:
*YES I read the Franklin stories, and frankly nothing shocks me because I work in the sex industry (sorry that I feel like I always have to state that but sometimes people aren't familiar with me and don't know why I come up with these ideas/conclusions). Politicians, mostly Republican .. have very deep seeded fetishes. At least in my experience. I'm so liberal I'm off the grid so it's nothing political to me, green is green and I don't care where it comes from when they give it to me.

Anyway; there are pedophile rings. Sadly we are all so very aware this exists. Children in group homes are at twice the risk as kids at home who are also at risk. Children on the streets are triple the risk and children who are transgendered or queer are off the charts at risk due to stigma and hate at home and from society.

But the kids who are considered "throw-away" in our culture are who these rings pick. The reason for that is because no one notices that they are gone. No one is looking for them and those kids just want acceptance. Sex isn't special and it's not loving, it's a means of survival. Once a person is victimized over and over and over, they learn to separate from their physical selves and let their body become used, so it's quickly over with and they can just go on about their day. Sex is a utility and from a young age they learn to not fight back because it just makes it hurt more.

Another thing too, these kids that grow up in homes where incest is generational see it as "acceptance" and normality. That being touched, kissed or had sex with is the way ALL adults show someone they care about them. If it's all you know, you wouldn't think to report it. Once you figure it out it's too much emotionally to handle and you turn to drugs and running off. Those parents won't report the kid because they are too afraid to go to jail and then the kids end up on the streets and if they are lucky, foster care.

Taking a male off the streets and throwing him into a pedophilia ring *when there's ample throw -away kids* makes little to no sense. It does happen that kids are taken but usually it's for 1 sicko to use not a ring.

And this Satanic panic stuff just makes my eyes roll into the back of my head. Look, I'm not here to scare people or create a stir. I know that my line of work *never mind the fact I am a nurse and a mother that works in outreach programs!* and the fact that yes, I am a Satanist *card carrying member* as well as Jewish, makes me look like a spooky person. Truly I am not and Satanism in it's true form is just Atheism. I am in the Lavey church (so the true church of Satanism). It's not "Devil worship", we don't believe in a devil. We don't sacrifice and we even have rules! One of those rules is not to harm children and not to harm animals:

I really urge people to read the rules *no demon will enter your soul, I assure you*

http://www.churchofsatan.com/eleven-rules-of-earth.php

But in case you're too freaked out to click the link, here are the rules:

Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

Do not harm little children.

Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Now with that out of the way, let's talk about this so called "rocking X".

I believe the FBI did state there is such a thing as the rocking X brand, however when I google I get conspiracy theories and my gosh there's a ton! I can't comment much on that but in all my years of living my lifestyle *and I started out on the streets very underage and with a pimp before I discovered freedom and being a dominatrix*; I have never once met a person who was branded in this fashion. I have met thousands of young people who have had their pimps' name on their chest though, that's beyond common. Hell, I've met girls who've been traded so many times they have nothing but names on them! Not that it's funny but that's the way it goes.

I could totally see "branding" *with heat not tattoos* being out there and used. I mean, why wouldn't it be? But the problem I see with doing that to these kids is that it's living proof that they were used for sexual exploitation in child *advertiser censored*. Why would these sophisticated high level people risk their business? I know that sex is an addiction and pedophilia is truly a mental disease and sexual preference. There's the age old argument on whether or not it's a chosen sexual preference or something a person is born with (just like some people are born hetero and someone people are born homosexual). I really feel people are born being pedophiles, which is why even liquid castration and therapy doesn't work. you can't fix that. There's no reforming that will work, unless of course it's a teen acting on a child and that teen was sexually abused etc etc. So given that pedophilia is a sexual orientation, the predators will lose interest in these boys once they age out of what the predators enjoy.

Then what happens? It seems like the mother is stating that Johnny was released *kinda* because he aged out but he had to live in hiding. Why would he need to be in hiding if they released him? If they didn't trust him they would have killed him or kept him there to recruit others.

Childhood auctions do happen. I don't have any useful information on that which concerns the US.

I often wonder if Johnny's mother knows she was taken for a big ole con artist ride and at this point she's too afraid to say the truth or feels stupid so she continues on with it.

I don't think he's alive and I think where ever his body is, Eugene's body is near by.

Regarding the photos: I know the photo of the 3 boys on the bed was debunked but looking at it you can't help but realize that some pervert most likely convinced these boys to get tied up for their *escape contest* and said pervert photographed it.

The other photographs and the images that were on the website which "Jimmy" came from; those are obviously bondage child *advertiser censored*. I used the way back machine to view what people were speaking of. They were ranging from kids tied up and obviously drugged or scared, in someone's home/camper etc to even photos of kids playing on the beach and some creeper was taking photos at a distance. These were all "hunting" type shots.

The bondage photos looked like they could be Russian in origin (on the website), including the one that Johnny's mother is convinced is of him with the branding.

I do not think it's him. I think she thinks any photo that kinda looks like him, is him. My thing is, why aren't there photos appearing of Johnny through out the years then? Why only right when he went missing? I think it's because in her mind she knows he's deceased and he quit aging at 12. Does that make any sense?

The amount of quacks in her ears about Satanic cults, ritualistic abuse.. pedophile branding in the US - is just ALL TOO MUCH!.

I have a family case here of a missing great uncle, he worked on the Manhattan project (MK ultra spawned from this) and the Abomb, He's literally missing and obviously deceased. My family is full of FBI employee's and those that work in special forces. I can talk about some things and stuff like Johnny's case is one of them. I'm telling you all, there is no merit in any of this current MK ultra stuff, this supposed ritualistic stuff.. none of it. I won't take over the thread in why I think that or what was shared with me by my family but to make it short:

They have plenty of willing participants to be study objects, all subjects are in the military and the place this all goes on is in VA. (verifiable through wikipedia/google). Why would they pluck starlets and kids?

And back to lil' lies the parents of Johnny told, or things withheld:
Johnny supposedly visiting and no one knowing till his mother testified on the behalf of someone to win a lawsuit.

Johnny's father having his Mistress pose as Johnny's mother in the bank and elsewhere.

Johnny's mother receiving these images and not telling the fbi or police until her people etc etc knew. And at that point it was discovered that the story she gave on when she received them wasn't true either.

I could add so much but it's easier if people just ask my opinion on 1 thing and I answer it lol, if anyone cares that much.
 
So Astrokitty, do you think the dad knows more than he is telling? Do you think Johnny was taken for some sort of "debt" to be repaid by some sort of gang or loan shark?

I can't find a link to the full documentary.
 
I think Johnny being taken as payment for a debt is unrealistic. These types of rumors or stories are pretty out there and the only time I believe someone gives their kid over as payment for "debt" is when the child is female and the MOTHER trades off their child into the industry. What I mean by that is that the mother is a long time sex worker for a pimp and she either starts withholding money from her Pimp or starts dipping into the supply (drugs). If the woman has a child reaching the age of puberty the pimp may "offer" to take the child off her hands as a form of payment, and often times these are the young girls I see outside walking 4am trying to sell themselves. They are never "missing" because the mother or guardian knows where their daughter is. They always say she's off with her cousin/uncle/daddy.

So, no. I don't think Johnny was given as a debt payment.

Is it possible that his father paid someone to kidnap his son and kill him so that he could get insurance money and donations? Possibly! Johnny's father did withdrawal something like 500k right before he went missing, if I remember correctly.

*don't quote me on that, but do check in to see if I'm correct*

I think it goes one of two ways:

Dad knows exactly what happened because he was part of it, but why Johnny was singled out and not his wife or other kids is beyond me. That's the only aspect that makes me question it all. Why not kill his wife? He wanted out of the marriage anyway and was having an affair. Why Johnny?

And that's what leads me to think it was a stranger abduction, the same stranger that abducted Eugene. It only makes sense to me that he likely was murdered along with Eugene. This is probably a serial killer. Why we haven't found the bodies is mysterious but at the same time not really. For all we know they have found his body but it's not been identified. These things do fall between the cracks. Or the person responsible is still alive out there and the bodies are on his property. Look how long Gary Ridgeway got away with his crimes.

I will never believe in a pedophilia ring, drug debt, space aliens or MK ultra taking Johnny.
 
I think Johnny being taken as payment for a debt is unrealistic. These types of rumors or stories are pretty out there and the only time I believe someone gives their kid over as payment for "debt" is when the child is female and the MOTHER trades off their child into the industry. What I mean by that is that the mother is a long time sex worker for a pimp and she either starts withholding money from her Pimp or starts dipping into the supply (drugs). If the woman has a child reaching the age of puberty the pimp may "offer" to take the child off her hands as a form of payment, and often times these are the young girls I see outside walking 4am trying to sell themselves. They are never "missing" because the mother or guardian knows where their daughter is. They always say she's off with her cousin/uncle/daddy.

So, no. I don't think Johnny was given as a debt payment.

Is it possible that his father paid someone to kidnap his son and kill him so that he could get insurance money and donations? Possibly! Johnny's father did withdrawal something like 500k right before he went missing, if I remember correctly.

*don't quote me on that, but do check in to see if I'm correct*

I think it goes one of two ways:

Dad knows exactly what happened because he was part of it, but why Johnny was singled out and not his wife or other kids is beyond me. That's the only aspect that makes me question it all. Why not kill his wife? He wanted out of the marriage anyway and was having an affair. Why Johnny?

And that's what leads me to think it was a stranger abduction, the same stranger that abducted Eugene. It only makes sense to me that he likely was murdered along with Eugene. This is probably a serial killer. Why we haven't found the bodies is mysterious but at the same time not really. For all we know they have found his body but it's not been identified. These things do fall between the cracks. Or the person responsible is still alive out there and the bodies are on his property. Look how long Gary Ridgeway got away with his crimes.

I will never believe in a pedophilia ring, drug debt, space aliens or MK ultra taking Johnny.


I love your honesty AstroKitty
 
Hey lady! Good to see you around :)

I am here :blushing:......had a few surgeries and am feeling so amazing almost human again lol.

May I also say that after reading some of your current posts I am starting not to feel so ashamed about my past xoxo. I thank you for putting yourself out there the way you do.
 
Johnny's case has always bothered me because I grew up in Iowa and it became the quintessential "warning" against wandering around by yourself or talking to strangers.

I know there are several theories out there about what happened to him and I do feel terribly for his mother. However, Johnny was one of THREE young boys to missing from Des Moines (Eugene and Mark being the other two) within a pretty short time frame. I tend to believe that all three were taken by the same person and it was NOT some working for a pedophile ring, but rather just a sole sick, twisted individual. All three boys were probably murdered shortly after they were taken and obviously the bodies were disposed of pretty thoroughly. I do NOT think Johnny visited his mother all those years later, though she may certainly believe it was him.

All that said, this is one case I wish I could know the "answer" to.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
71
Guests online
1,685
Total visitors
1,756

Forum statistics

Threads
605,982
Messages
18,196,302
Members
233,685
Latest member
momster0734
Back
Top