IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Anthony D]

oh yeah, I agree about the popo in Dunkin. lol

So please help me understand the point people are making with the cultural divide in small town Iowa. How does that affect this murder?

Is the point being made that he had no other way to meet white women other than to follow them randomly and run up on them?

I think its more of for whatever reason (social incompetence, mental issues, whatever) he somehow felt stalking women from his car was something he felt was acceptable (to him not everyone). I dunno where or how he came to that conclusion, but he somehow came to that conclusion that it was ok for him to do that. Obviously if he didn't think it was ok he would have backed off with the police comment from Mollie and said to himself well ok maybe I crossed a line here. No idea why he felt creeping out girls like this was ok, but that could come from the cultural divide.

 

[MsBetsy]

I have many relatives who own farms in central California. Spent a lot of time there for many decades. I have seen that cultural divide.

But at the same time, if a farm worker is polite and sociable, no one has a problem with them attending community functions. Sure, if they harass or hassle young girls, they will be kicked out or maybe a fight may ensue.

But I guess I am not understanding what people here are saying about CR, or why he 'needed' to meet a young white girl. Are people justifying his driving around hassling young women because he had no 'other option' to meet them?

No! Not at all. I think you are misunderstanding the point. I don't think anyone is thinking that at all! Its not that he " needed any particular girl at all. She was the easiest target. His lack of being able to find " dates" has absolutely nothing to do with it. He was not interested in dating or having a relationship with her at all. Imo. He obviously had at least one relationship, although it lasted only one year. And was with a women from his country. The subject of him trying to pick up girls came from a few people who believe this is what he may have been doing. I, however, don't believe he was and neither do many people. Many believe he was simply looking for a good victim, and to me it woukd HAVE to be someone he had no feelings for or wasn't interested in dating. After all, he must have had a decent relationship with his girlfriend. She certainly isn't on the news saying he was abusive. Most killers like this don't abuse those close to them at all. Jmo

 

[katydid23]

So therefore scenarios :

After he chases her:

1. He catches her, hits/stabs her with an object knocking her unconscious and she either dies very soon after from head trauma or she bleeds out in the trunk. She is dead at the cornfield already. He then does the carry/cover thing like he said.
2. He catches her, hits/stabs her with an object knocking her unconscious, but she doesn't die. When getting her out of the trunk she is not conscious, but not dead so he finishes her off by stabbing her again then covers her with cornstalks.
3. He catches her, He shoves her in the trunk still alive, and kills her in a struggle after he takes her out of the trunk (I find this one super unlikely)
4. He catches her, hits/stabs her with an object knocking her unconscious, but she doesn't die. When getting her out of the trunk she is not conscious, but not dead, however she is bleeding badly enough so he just leaves her to die and covers her with the cornstalks.
5. He catches her, knocks her out, holds her captive for however long, kills her later then brings her to the cornfield, carries/covers her etc. ( I also find this one unlikely with the current evidence)

I think a case could be made for most of those scenarios.

But what led up to him chasing her? What was his intent when he followed her, and when he got out of the car?

 

[SharonNeedles]

Wow. I have not seen one indication whatsoever that anyone here is victim blaming. The killer is victim blaming by saying she made him mad, but certainly no-one on here is suggesting that. Trying to get inside the head of the killer is exactly what investigators do to solve a crime. If anything, that is all I see people doing here. Understanding the way he operates give us clues we can use to figure out what happened. Not saying we all think we know better than detectives, but I think we are all here because we are interested in crime, and want to see that justice is served.

I certainly won’t blame Mollie, but I do question one decision that may have been a critical mistake: why on earth did she head east down that street into a more isolated area? She was not known to run east on 385th ave heading out of town, so why would she go that direction when she knows she’s having issues with this guy. That doesn’t make a bit of sense to me.

 

[feralwriter]

oh yeah, I agree about the popo in Dunkin. lol

So please help me understand the point people are making with the cultural divide in small town Iowa. How does that affect this murder?

Is the point being made that he had no other way to meet white women other than to follow them randomly and run up on them?

So, what we're doing on the website is speculating. We are writing our theories about motive, means, and opportunity. Some Iowans are here talking about cultural differences in whatever aspects they choose to bring up. We're all contributing in our own ways via our own experiences in life. We can't come to conclusions for you- nor would you want us to, right? We're all just here speculating about his motive, his means, his opportunity that July night.

 

[katydid23]

But what led up to him chasing her? What was his intent when he followed her, and when he got out of the car?

What I am trying to say is, if he was too uncomfortable with the cultural divide, to speak to her if he saw her in town, or at Casey's etc, why did he think that running up alongside her, out of the blue, would be any more comfortable or effective?

 

[katydid23]

I certainly won’t blame Mollie, but I do question one decision that may have been a critical mistake: why on earth did she head east down that street into a more isolated area? She was not known to run east on 385th ave heading out of town, so why would she go that direction when she knows she’s having issues with this guy. That doesn’t make a bit of sense to me.

Maybe he blocked her from going the other way?

 

[Al Hoffman]

I can't imagine that anyone is offended.

I do think that he did have to give up her location to relieve the pressure being put on him and not have LE on his tail day in and day out. He had almost 5 weeks. Obviously he wasn't motivated prior to that. I'm sorry he didn't allow her to have a burial until it suited him.

I'm still sticking with the possibility that CBR believed, because of his experiences and rumor growing up in Mexico, that the rubber hoses would come out if he did not tell LE what they wanted to hear, which was as much of the truth that he could tell, along with the location of the body. I am still waiting to see a move by the defense to invalidate CBR's Miranda on a cultural milieu grounds rational. Meaning that CBR was incapable of believing that he had a right to non-self-incrimination or the right to legal counsel, no matter what LE said to him.

 

[feralwriter]

I'm still sticking with the possibility that CBR believed, because of his experiences and rumor growing up in Mexico, that the rubber hoses would come out if he did not tell LE what they wanted to hear, which was as much of the truth that he could tell, along with the location of the body. I am still waiting to see a move by the defense to invalidate CBR's Miranda on a cultural milieu grounds rational. Meaning that CBR was incapable of believing that he had a right to non-self-incrimination or the right to legal counsel, no matter what LE said to him.

Have we seen a case like this, though? I'm not familiar with one? Anyone? Where the Miranda Warning won't hold water because the recipient had some sort of belief?

 

[SharonNeedles]

Right, and just because he might’ve had limited opportunities to socialize, that’s not grounds for murder. And furthermore we can’t possibly know that if Brooklyn had umpteen social opportunities for CR, Mollie’s (alleged) murder by CR would’ve been prevented.

Nobody’s saying that at all. My point is that there is nothing unusual about him driving around town hoping to find girls. Y’all are giving him too much intellectual credit if you think he came up with some elaborate plan and pulled it off with perfect timing. The guy had five weeks to get out of here never to be seen again and he wasn’t even smart enough to do that much.

 

[MsBetsy]

If you are interested in meeting girls, you go where the girls are. Who cares if they went to your high school or not?

My daughter and her friends used to go to skateboard tournaments and surf competitions, and guess what---they didn't like skate boarding or surfing.


And what is all this cultural difference talk? Why was he so intent on finding a young woman who was not in his community or culture? What is that about? He wasn't looking for a girlfriend ?

What was his intent?

In answer to your last 2 questions: No, he was not looking for a girlfriend. Now I think I see why you might be confused. There was some conversation about the possibility of him looking for someone to pick up or "date" at some point. It led to alot of speculation as to whether or not this could be possible. I'm not sure how much you have been following, but there has been no evidence to support this other than he was drawn to her that particular day. That can mean alot of things. The general consensus is that he was looking for someone to " kill," and he followed her, waited for the right time ( isolation) and when she ran, chased her down, assaulted and viciously murdered her. In no way does this indicate that he wanted to date her, or that he was even looking for a relationship. Imo Does that clear things up?

 

[MassGuy]

No! Not at all. I think you are misunderstanding the point. I don't think anyone is thinking that at all! Its not that he " needed any particular girl at all. She was the easiest target. His lack of being able to find " dates" has absolutely nothing to do with it. He was not interested in dating or having a relationship with her at all. Imo. He obviously had at least one relationship, although it lasted only one year. And was with a women from his country. The subject of him trying to pick up girls came from a few people who believe this is what he may have been doing. I, however, don't believe he was and neither do many people. Many believe he was simply looking for a good victim, and to me it woukd HAVE to be someone he had no feelings for or wasn't interested in dating. After all, he must have had a decent relationship with his girlfriend. She certainly isn't on the news saying he was abusive. Most killers like this don't abuse those close to them at all. Jmo

Exactly. He was out hunting, not looking for a date. I don’t care where you’re from, running up to a woman while she is jogging and asking her out, has absolutely no chance of working. Her rejection of him would have only given him an excuse to use violence, something that would have likely occurred regardless of her response. He is victim blaming, face saving, and giving himself a justification. No one believes that he had any intention that was not nefarious.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Do people really go to HS football games of a school they didn't attend? I personally never have and I doubt CR would find that very appealing when he knows nobody, isn't part of the school community, and has a cultural difference. Importance on the word cultural difference. That really effects how comfortable/uncomfortable someone is in certain situations.

Sometimes a six pack and a big zapper can be a big draw on Saturday night. Also, the rare "zilch" party involving a chain of burning bread bags zilching into a washtub of water, sometimes with the herbal assistance of something grown in the middle of a cornfield (if the deer don't eat it all first).

 

[TeaTime]

To even suggest that he was motivated because he was lonely for a girlfriend and unfamiliar in the wooing style of our culture is preposterous. He stalked her, chased her down like a dog, dragged her to his car, put her in the trunk and drove away. At some point, he stabbed her to death and then dragged her body into a corn field where he covered her in corn stalks.

If this poor, pitifully awkward lonely young man just wanted to meet her and flirt, good intentions would have him leaving her alone when she made it clear she wasn't interested. He had ill intent from the beginning.

 

[MassGuy]

Have we seen a case like this, though? I'm not familiar with one? Anyone? Where the Miranda Warning won't hold water because the recipient had some sort of belief?

I don’t think so. As long as the law is followed, there is no chance of the confession being thrown out.

As long as law enforcement didn’t threaten him with torture, or do anything illegal that Mexican police might have done, his confession will stand. What happens in other places, and the experiences that people have in these places, doesn’t change what the laws and procedures are here, regardless of what he may have thought.

 

[MistyWaters]

No! Not at all. I think you are misunderstanding the point. I don't think anyone is thinking that at all! Its not that he " needed any particular girl at all. She was the easiest target. His lack of being able to find " dates" has absolutely nothing to do with it. He was not interested in dating or having a relationship with her at all. Imo. He obviously had at least one relationship, although it lasted only one year. And was with a women from his country. The subject of him trying to pick up girls came from a few people who believe this is what he may have been doing. I, however, don't believe he was and neither do many people. Many believe he was simply looking for a good victim, and to me it woukd HAVE to be someone he had no feelings for or wasn't interested in dating. After all, he must have had a decent relationship with his girlfriend. She certainly isn't on the news saying he was abusive. Most killers like this don't abuse those close to them at all. Jmo

One common reason why people associated with a perp, when interviewed by the media, do the “great guy” thing is self-protection so as not to face public blame, harassment and judgement for not having intervened earlier in some way. Nobody can ever to see into the future. Take for example IM. What if CR is known to have a vicious temper and beat the living daylights out of her to cause the seperation but she chose not to file charges for unknown reasons? Like a lot of abused woman, she might think it was all her fault. Maybe he leaves her alone now because she holds it over him that he lives under a fake identity? Maybe she relies on child support to improve her financial situation for the good of her child? Purely speculation but people who make statements to the media are not under oath and sometimes they say what they do for different reasons.

 

[whiskers]

I certainly won’t blame Mollie, but I do question one decision that may have been a critical mistake: why on earth did she head east down that street into a more isolated area? She was not known to run east on 385th ave heading out of town, so why would she go that direction when she knows she’s having issues with this guy. That doesn’t make a bit of sense to me.

I brought that up also a few days ago and was mildly websleuths shamed. I wasn’t victim blaming, but someone said I put her on a pedestal. You are correct, if it wasn’t her normal run, then why that day? I know the poster told me she probably had her music on and didn’t hear him.

But if it wasn’t her normal route, why that day? Perhaps she felt cornered, saw a huge stretch of road and ran? I don’t know. I think it’s a very valid question.

 

[MsBetsy]

To even suggest that he was motivated because he was lonely for a girlfriend and unfamiliar in the wooing style of our culture is preposterous. He stalked her, chased her down like a dog, dragged her to his car, put her in the trunk and drove away. At some point, he stabbed her to death and then dragged her body into a corn field where he covered her in corn stalks.

If this poor, pitifully awkward lonely young man just wanted to meet her and flirt, good intentions would have him leaving her alone when she made it clear she wasn't interested. He had ill intent from the beginning.

Agree. You said it a bit more aggressively than I. Katidid, you need to see above post.

 

[katydid23]

In answer to your last 2 questions: No, he was not looking for a girlfriend. Now I think I see why you might be confused. There was some conversation about the possibility of him looking for someone to pick up or "date" at some point. It led to alot of speculation as to whether or not this could be possible. I'm not sure how much you have been following, but there has been no evidence to support this other than he was drawn to her that particular day. That can mean alot of things. The general consensus is that he was looking for someone to " kill," and he followed her, waited for the right time ( isolation) and when she ran, chased her down, assaulted and viciously murdered her. In no way does this indicate that he wanted to date her, or that he was even looking for a relationship. Imo Does that clear things up?

That is the confusion. There are posters saying it was just fine and normal for him to drive around looking for a girl that night.

So that is where my confusion comes in.

I don't think he was driving around looking for a date. I think he was a predator looking for a victim. Which is why I think it is irrelevant to point to the cultural divide which made him feel to uncomfortable to ask a woman out on a date. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm still sticking with the possibility that CBR believed, because of his experiences and rumor growing up in Mexico, that the rubber hoses would come out if he did not tell LE what they wanted to hear, which was as much of the truth that he could tell, along with the location of the body. I am still waiting to see a move by the defense to invalidate CBR's Miranda on a cultural milieu grounds rational. Meaning that CBR was incapable of believing that he had a right to non-self-incrimination or the right to legal counsel, no matter what LE said to him.

Interesting. Are you familiar with the Gladeau Principle in Canada? It’s quite similar to what you’re referring to except it relates to our aboriginal people.
Key Factors Relevant to Aboriginal Sentencing Considerations | Gladue Sentencing Principles