Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #44

[TL4S]

Carryover from last thread (sorry, don't know how to quote from there):

@Tippy Lynn asked: Out of curiosity....if we could ask LE three questions what would you ask them?

@rebel123 answered:
a) When exactly did you get the CCTV? (1-2 weeks doesn't cut it)
b) Have your recovered the clothing CR worn on the evening / night in question?
c) Have you recovered the following items, the sharp object that caused Mollies death, Mollie's phone and Fitbit?

Great question and excellent response! I would add these:

a) What other towns has CR lived in since coming to the US?
b) Has a criminal record been found under his name, or any known aliases, in either the US or Mexico?
c) What, if any, evidence was found in the Malibu's trunk?

*Bonus question - 'Sup with the Nissan, yo? (my best "gangsta" impression...)

 

[rebel123]

Responding to @wary from last thread:

I did see that, but I don’t see the significance of it. Illegals normally buy their docs, this guy must have got the cheap package. I worked with a guy named Jose Cuervo once, I always wondered if that was his real name.

We once had a customer called 'Luke Skywalker', he'd legally changed his name to that; strange but true. Credit checking him was fun; I can't remember if he passed it or not.

 

[SharonNeedles]

JMO
I think the significance of it will come into play in civil court as I am expecting MT's family will most likely sue the farm for some percentage of liability they may have had in MT's death.

I suspect their lawyers will argue that with a name like "John Budd" which is traditionally a well known US surname that the farm should have known he was using an illegal allias and thus should have checked him out more carefully regarding his status to be working in the country legally. Amongst other things too like the car and whether he had a valid drivers license and insurance to be driving the roads on which MT was taken.

I have been interested in learning about the car insurance situation because there was a case in my state where an illegal immigrant hit and killed a person and they were held liable but the person had no drivers license or insurance. So it causes quite a quandry as the family is tried to recoup hospital medical bills that were incurred before the person died.

If and when a civil case gets filed in this case I am pretty sure the farm is going to be involved in some percentage of liability. Lawyers will include them in a civil suit because they know the defendant does not have the money. This is why having valid insurance when driving is so important and why people get upset when others drive without drivers licenses and insurance.

When and if your family member ever gets injured in a vehicle crash or worse dies in one and if the other person is not insured properly then you are left to figure out how to recoup money lost or you may not have the means to pay either as hospital bills skyrocket.

There will not be a civil against the farm. Mark my words, I’ll eat my hat if I’m wrong.

 

[kpm]

Carryover from last thread (sorry, don't know how to quote from there):

@Tippy Lynn asked: Out of curiosity....if we could ask LE three questions what would you ask them?

@rebel123 answered:
a) When exactly did you get the CCTV? (1-2 weeks doesn't cut it)
b) Have your recovered the clothing CR worn on the evening / night in question?
c) Have you recovered the following items, the sharp object that caused Mollies death, Mollie's phone and Fitbit?

Great question and excellent response! I would add these:

a) What other towns has CR lived in since coming to the US?
b) Has a criminal record been found under his name, or any known aliases, in either the US or Mexico?
c) What, if any, evidence was found in the Malibu's trunk?

*Bonus question - 'Sup with the Nissan, yo? (my best "gangsta" impression...)

Where did he get his fake documents

Were any other fake docs found

Did CR have MT in two locations at the cornfield, the secluded spot and the disposal spot

Was MT held for any amount of time after the abduction

When was TOD

Did anyone tip you off on his creepy behavior prior to or after the presser about the key spots to focus on

 

[Mominmi]

Question: my employee, Lizzie, is entitled to use the tools in my tool shed as part of her compensation. She must check them out. She comes to me one evening asking to borrow my ax. I allow her to and the next morning I discover she’s given everyone in her company owned house a whack. Am I liable because it was my ax she used?

 

[Hatfield]

There will not be a civil against the farm. Mark my words, I’ll eat my hat if I’m wrong.

JMO
I politely disagree. We will have to wait and see.

Lawyers get very creative in who they will include in civil cases for percentages of liability. Usually multiple defendants are listed and if they win the case then a percentage of liability is established by the verdict.

In the OJ civil case it became quite interesting and is what lead to OJ getting mad about his stuff being taken and finally put him in jail.

In the Schlitterbahn Water Park accident case in Kansas, there were multiple defendants listed in the civil case.

KS - Caleb Schwab,10, dies on 17-story Schlitterbahn waterpark slide, Aug 2016

Even when families may not necessarily want to sue someone then a lot of times they end up doing so to recoup monies lost and future earnings lost. In MTs case they had already invested in her schooling and her murder now has lost all potential future earnings that she would be able to provide for herself and possibly her family.

 

[Hatfield]

Question: my employee, Lizzie, is entitled to use the tools in my tool shed as part of her compensation. She must check them out. She comes to me one evening asking to borrow my ax. I allow her to and the next morning I discover she’s given everyone in her company owned house a whack. Am I liable because it was my ax she used?

The jury in the civil case will decide.
Thats if you are included as a defendant in a civil case to begin with. The employee will also be included and most likely have the most culpability.

If they decide against you, then the court will assign a percentage of liability for your part, if any. They may assign 0 percent or some other percent.

Like if you knew your employee was unstable and had past incidents in the past then your percentage may go up.

This is my understanding and JMO as I dont have any legal experience but I have followed quite a few cases where civil cases followed a criminal case.

I think typically they like to let the criminal case end first because that establishes guilt for sure of the original defendant. Then once that is established then civil cases can pop up. Sometimes they dont as well. It all depends on the circumstances and if any deep pockets exist.

 

[TL4S]

In my best estimate, the two cars being towed in this picture are:

1) Chevy Malibu (early 2010s)
2) Nissan Maxima (late 1990s)

From the late 2000s to the early 2010s (when CR would have first entered the country), both those cars were in the top 10 models most stolen. That made me wonder. The cars may belong to the farm, but until we know that as FACT, isn't it possible that along with a stolen/fake ID and SSN, CR might have been set up with a stolen vehicle, as well?

Although I would wonder why not a fake DL...

*Note: That black fin antenna on the roof of the Malibu is an OnStar antenna from what I've read. JMO, that means OnStar really could have CR's route from that night, even if the car's service wasn't activated.

 

[Hatfield]

In my best estimate, the two cars being towed in this picture are:

1) Chevy Malibu (early 2010s)
2) Nissan Maxima (late 1990s)

From the late 2000s to the early 2010s, both those cars were in the top 10 models most stolen. That made me wonder. The cars may belong to the farm, but until we know that as FACT, isn't it possible that along with a stolen/fake ID and SSN, CR might have been set up with a stolen vehicle, as well?

Although I would wonder why not a fake DL...

Interesting question.

I wonder if its something about those vehicle types that may make them easier to steal or something. I have always wondered what makes a certain car type the most stolen vehicle.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Question: my employee, Lizzie, is entitled to use the tools in my tool shed as part of her compensation. She must check them out. She comes to me one evening asking to borrow my ax. I allow her to and the next morning I discover she’s given everyone in her company owned house a whack. Am I liable because it was my ax she used?

IMO, no, re the ax. But I would guess you could be liable if your company-owned house didn't have sufficient security procedures in place to protect tenants...

 

[MsBetsy]

Carryover from last thread (sorry, don't know how to quote from there):

@Tippy Lynn asked: Out of curiosity....if we could ask LE three questions what would you ask them?

@rebel123 answered:
a) When exactly did you get the CCTV? (1-2 weeks doesn't cut it)
b) Have your recovered the clothing CR worn on the evening / night in question?
c) Have you recovered the following items, the sharp object that caused Mollies death, Mollie's phone and Fitbit?

Great question and excellent response! I would add these:

a) What other towns has CR lived in since coming to the US?
b) Has a criminal record been found under his name, or any known aliases, in either the US or Mexico?
c) What, if any, evidence was found in the Malibu's trunk?

*Bonus question - 'Sup with the Nissan, yo? (my best "gangsta" impression...)

Yes, we would all love to know the answers to those questions. I would also like to know if he has done this before or if it was his first time. I wonder if we will ever find out? What does everyone think are the chances of going to trial?

 

[kpm]

Interesting question.

I wonder if its something about those vehicle types that may make them easier to steal or something. I have always wondered what makes a certain car type the most stolen vehicle.

I have read several articles where people have said they saw him and or the vehicle around town.

But there was another black car at the trailer that it could have been mistaken for too

 

[otto]

Why would there be a lawsuit related to a car that was used during the abduction? There's no reason to believe that this is the only car he could have used. Maybe there were other cars that he could borrow, or he could steal a car.

He shouldn't have been driving any car on public roads.

Following up on this point from yesterday. In order to hold the owner of a vehicle responsible for a crime that occurred using that car, doesn't it have to be proven that if that car was not available, the crime would not have occurred? That's not possible here. There no reason to believe that if that car was not available, Rivera would not have obtained another vehicle to use in the abduction and murder of Mollie.

 

[cody22]

Yes, we would all love to know the answers to those questions. I would also like to know if he has done this before or if it was his first time. I wonder if we will ever find out? What does everyone think are the chances of going to trial?

50/50 at this time. I think the community and state would love this crime not to go to trial...... It has the potential of being a political media circus.

 

[MsBetsy]

Interesting question.

I wonder if its something about those vehicle types that may make them easier to steal or something. I have always wondered what makes a certain car type the most stolen vehicle.

I had a Volkswagen Cabriolet and my insurance company told me the reason the premium was so high was because it was one of the top most commonly stolen vehicle. I'm sure you can guess why. I wish I had known when I bought the car!

 

[kpm]

Question: my employee, Lizzie, is entitled to use the tools in my tool shed as part of her compensation. She must check them out. She comes to me one evening asking to borrow my ax. I allow her to and the next morning I discover she’s given everyone in her company owned house a whack. Am I liable because it was my ax she used?

I am not sure but a better question would be....

What if Lizzy was not qualified to use the tools in the box, let’s say your employees had to be certified and licensed to use the tools by law but you were allowing them to check out the tools with the knowledge they were not certified to use them?

 

[cody22]

What if Lizzy was not qualified to use the tools in the box, let’s say your employees had to be certified and licensed to use the tools by law but you were allowing them to check out the tools with the knowledge they were not certified to use them?

Or lawfully legal for Lizzie to use the tools ?

 

[Hatfield]

IMO, no, re the ax. But I would guess you could be liable if your company-owned house didn't have sufficient security procedures in place to protect tenants...

This is included to illustrate how multiple parties can get dragged into a civil case. Look at the result of how many different parties ended up with a judgement against them and their share was a percentage of the overall judgement.

The most interesting one to me is the raft builder. They probably never expected they would be dragged into a civil case resulting in someones death. They just supplied the raft. They probably had little control in how tall the water park made the ride or how fast the ride itself made their rafts go. Their small judgement related to the other parties reflects this. But yet they still had to pay some.

▪ $14 million from SVV 1 and KC Water Park, two companies associated with Texas-based water park company Schlitterbahn.

▪ $5 million from Henry & Sons Construction, the general contractor on the 17-story ride that broke records for the height of a water slide.

▪ $500,000 from Zebec of North America, which manufactured the raft that carried up to three riders down the slide.

▪ $232,125 from National Aquatics Safety Co. and its founder, John Hunsucker, which consulted on Verrückt.


Family of Caleb Schwab receives nearly $20 million in Verrückt settlements

 

[TL4S]

Delete

 

[MsBetsy]

50/50 at this time. I think the community and state would love this crime not to go to trial...... It has the potential of being a political media circus.

Well, that helps!!! JK... I would think it depends on how much Rivera is willing to cooperate. Or maybe the lawyers.