Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #44

[Jaclin]

we don't know the situation, but sometimes a woman could be financial dependent on the man and the man dependent on the woman to easily have access to their child so moo they could have not been a couple but still lived together for financial reasons and or to co parent. not saying that is the way it was but a could be. I question about when the child was born, if not married he would have had to sign that he was the father, at least if he wanted to have his name on the birth certificate and to me it seems that would cause a issue with his id.

it seems you do need that information. I wonder if CR used his fake ID or if they decided it wasn't worth the trouble and just left his name out of it?

 

[kpm]

Oh yes sorry I do remember that one. Anonymous coworkers.

Just like John Budd?

ETA: It’s highly doubtful they would want their names mentioned in this situation, as many others giving interviews, they fear what may happen to them.

 

[MsBetsy]

Is there a link for this please? I’m just curious.

It has been reported two lived together for a year, then broke up two years ago.......but if they were living together the entire time wouldn’t they’ve been living together for three years regardless of whether it was a romantic relationship or not???

Apparently she lived on the property. That is what the others living there have stated. It would make sense since he was reported to have seen the child often. Jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

Wow. Did I miss another news article describing the suspect, Rivera, going to church and confessing the murder?

A pretty boring theory, if I do say so myself.

but wondering why the priest would seek forgiveness for a total stranger.

 

[MsBetsy]

More than that, we know nothing about Rivera and religion. Nothing. To suggest that an unfounded, fact-less religious theory proves that the murder was not pre-planned has nothing to do with anything.

Rivera did not confess. He was arrested in relation to Mollie's disappearance and questioned about everything from his whereabouts on the night of the murder to whether police will find Mollie's blood in his car. We know the answer to that question. So does Rivera. After admitting that her blood will be found in the trunk of his car - "bleeding on the side of her head" - it would be easy to convince Rivera that it would go easier if he led them to the body.

There's no "serial killer" here. There's a cunning suspect who had a high likelihood of committing another random abduction/murder.

When did he confess to a priest? I don't remember that either. If he was urged to go to LE by a priest, why did the priest not report him?

 

[cluciano63]

Regardless of remorse, if any, or what LE already knew from video...it would have been very easy for him to not say a word and Mollie would likely still be classified as a “missing person”. No matter the reason, I am grateful he led police to her body...it does not change his situation, if anything it solidifies it, but has to be a huge relief/blessing for her loved ones.

I remain surprised that he talked at all and have very little interest in what he said...only that he did the one thing that was most necessary to move on with the case, and allow Mollie’s family a funeral.

 

[Jaclin]

A pretty boring theory, if I do say so myself.

but wondering why the priest would seek forgiveness for a total stranger.

I don't think he is necessarily seeking forgiveness only for CR. Though, it would be biblical to do so. We are asked to forgive anyone who trespasses against us. I think he wants the other parishioners to have a forgiving spirit so that they can better put this tragedy behind them rather than be full of anger and resentment. The verse doesn't say "forgive only other catholics".
Matthew 6:14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Can you repeat that, please? What is thanatomicrobiomic community and what exactly, is a community of body cavities? Can someone other than Dr. Javan summarize this in simpler terms?

Hey, this is what I posted about WAY up post.

The cited article is about a plan (The Human Microbiome Post-Mortem Project) to make a catalog of all of the bacteria that digest a body after death, along with a data base of their DNA. The idea is that with a rapid (48 hour) DNA sequencing of these bacteria, taken from a dead body, that it might be possible to quickly determine a more accurate time of death in highly decomposed bodies, based on the type and species of bacteria found. Kinda like what the entamologists do with bugs, flys and larva showing up at different identifiable times in the process of decomp, only with MUCH smaller bugs, e.g. bacteria.

The "Thantomicrobiome" community is simply all of the bacteria found in the internal body organs and body cavities upon death. The "Epinecrotic" microorganisms are those found on the surface of a body, or in the mouth and gut; the same bacteria in your "probiotic" gummy bear, and others that cause tooth decay and bad breath. Also molds, fungi, and bacteria found on the skin and in the soil and the environment. (The human digestive track, from the mouth to the anus, is technically considered to be on the "outside" of the internal body)

This is new and speculative research, and is considered to be in the realm of "Extreme Microbiology". While the concept shows great promise, and will undoubtedly provide needy PhD' s with grant money, I don't know if this concept is quite ready for "Prime Time" or a Frey Hearing in open court. But it may one day provide a reliable TOD for a body after 33 days in the elements, in the Iowa corn rows.

The cited article, is from the May 2016 "Frontiers in Microbiology"

And yes, I do have reason to know about bacteria that affect the reproductive and urinary tracks. The Lady Doctor I worked for just did not like the mnemonics that I used to teach about the ones that cause disease. Unfortunately, she never heard the filthy mnemonics that the female student doctors in my Board Review Class came up with!

I hope this helps all to understand what the good Dr. Javan meant!

 

[otto]

I think the officer's use of both terms is because LE didn't know whether Mollie got into his car willingly. She was a friendly young woman and he may have offered her a ride and she accepted. Once inside the car, she realized she was in danger and reached for her phone. I think the story of the earbud in his lap is to try to explain why her DNA would be found inside his vehicle. We also don't know what CR did with the earbud. JMO

Discussion about Mollie hopping into someone's car while she was still missing might have made sense, but now that we know that police have been unable to find a connection between the suspect and the victim prior to the abduction/murder, we know that she did not hop into someone's car in the middle of her jog to mom's house for brats.

Once inside the car, she was still thinking about jogging to her mom's house for brats, and the next morning field trip at work.

Why would she step into the trunk of a car?

 

[kpm]

Discussion about Mollie hopping into someone's car while she was still missing might have made sense, but now that we know that police have been unable to find a connection between the suspect and the victim prior to the abduction/murder, we know that she did not hop into someone's car in the middle of her jog to mom's house for brats.

Once inside the car, she was still thinking about jogging to her mom's house for brats, and the next morning field trip at work.

Why would she step into the trunk of a car?

Didn’t that theory come from a profiler?

 

[MsBetsy]

Hey, this is what I posted about WAY up post.

The cited article is about a plan (The Human Microbiome Post-Mortem Project) to make a catalog of all of the bacteria that digest a body after death, along with a data base of their DNA. The idea is that with a rapid (48 hour) DNA sequencing of these bacteria, taken from a dead body, that it might be possible to quickly determine a more accurate time of death in highly decomposed bodies, based on the type and species of bacteria found. Kinda like what the entamologists do with bugs, flys and larva showing up at different identifiable times in the process of decomp, only with MUCH smaller bugs, e.g. bacteria.

The "Thantomicrobiome" community is simply all of the bacteria found in the internal body organs and body cavities upon death. The "Epinecrotic" microorganisms are those found on the surface of a body, or in the mouth and gut; the same bacteria in your "probiotic" gummy bear, and others that cause tooth decay and bad breath. Also molds, fungi, and bacteria found on the skin and in the soil and the environment. (The human digestive track, from the mouth to the anus, is technically considered to be on the "outside" of the internal body)

This is new and speculative research, and is considered to be in the realm of "Extreme Microbiology". While the concept shows great promise, and will undoubtedly provide needy PhD' s with grant money, I don't know if this concept is quite ready for "Prime Time" or a Frey Hearing in open court. But it may one day provide a reliable TOD for a body after 33 days in the elements, in the Iowa corn rows.

The cited article, is from the May 2016 "Frontiers in Microbiology"

And yes, I do have reason to know about bacteria that affect the reproductive and urinary tracks. The Lady Doctor I worked for just did not like the mnemonics that I used to teach about the ones that cause disease. Unfortunately, she never heard the filthy mnemonics that the female student doctors in my Board Review Class came up with!

I hope this helps all to understand what the good Dr. Javan meant!

I think I get it. Thank you. Even if they find trace DNA, for example from a maggot retrieved from the body, would they be able to link Rivera to the crime? Or it could be found in a sample of tissue from the body? I know we discussed all this but I'm still curious how likely it is that they can prove SA, if it did occur.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Cunning, yes. Blitz attack. Brazen. Calculating.

He had seen Mollie jogging in the past. He knew her route. He most likely fantasized about how he would grab a woman off the street, he most likely knew that he would put her in the trunk of his car rather than the front or back seat. He most likely knew that there were no cameras in the area, although he made a mistake with one camera. He knew when she jogged and where she was most isolated. He knew that as soon as he started the attack he could not fail - or he would be instantly arrested, and he knew that once he had her in the trunk of his car he had to take her to a secluded area to fulfill his fantasy. There are so many moving parts in the abduction of a woman from a public street during daylight hours, that nothing should be left to chance if he wants to get away with it.

He wanted to get away with this, and he nearly succeeded. There was simply one small detail that he overlooked, and which police spent days to detect.

This is a post that makes complete sense, and yet . . .

By taking Mollie Tibbetts, he was racheting up the risk factor, the notoriety. Why would he consciously choose Mollie?

Maybe to increase the challenge for himself?

If he focused on other illegals, or continued to focus on other illegals if this is not his first crime, basically he would have been safe.

So, why change his victim pool?

 

[otto]

A pretty boring theory, if I do say so myself.

but wondering why the priest would seek forgiveness for a total stranger.

It's most likely because Rivera and the Priest did not meet each other.

Rivera was arrested. He did not confess.

He was asked questions. It didn't matter whether he lied or told the truth, police would find evidence of Mollie in his car. At that time, they had proof that he at the very least kidnapped her. It was in his best interests to lead them to the body because he was going to be found out either way.

 

[Harmony 2]

Hey everyone, a new thread is open for posting:

IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #45

Jump over... this thread will close in 10 minutes.

 

[Al Hoffman]

I think rejection may have played a role. Just because he was used to it doesn't mean it didn't have an effect on him. Especially if it was a theme in his life carried over from childhood. Of course we don't have this information but we do know that he was repeatedly turned down by various women, and that the only serious relationship we know of ended as a result of her betraying him and likely angering and hurting him. If it was the first time he felt a deep connection and love for someone it may have had a big impact on him. Some describe him as quiet and others explosive. Maybe he kept everything inside, leading to the explosive anger. Of course that is not necessarily the reason he did what he did, but adds to the idea that he is an angry, possibly unstable person who is not capable of feeling guilt, shame, remorse, and imo has no respect for human life. How else can one carry on with life, lie and deceive people after murdering someone? Jmo

Delete post.

 

[otto]

Hey, this is what I posted about WAY up post.

The cited article is about a plan (The Human Microbiome Post-Mortem Project) to make a catalog of all of the bacteria that digest a body after death, along with a data base of their DNA. The idea is that with a rapid (48 hour) DNA sequencing of these bacteria, taken from a dead body, that it might be possible to quickly determine a more accurate time of death in highly decomposed bodies, based on the type and species of bacteria found. Kinda like what the entamologists do with bugs, flys and larva showing up at different identifiable times in the process of decomp, only with MUCH smaller bugs, e.g. bacteria.

The "Thantomicrobiome" community is simply all of the bacteria found in the internal body organs and body cavities upon death. The "Epinecrotic" microorganisms are those found on the surface of a body, or in the mouth and gut; the same bacteria in your "probiotic" gummy bear, and others that cause tooth decay and bad breath. Also molds, fungi, and bacteria found on the skin and in the soil and the environment. (The human digestive track, from the mouth to the anus, is technically considered to be on the "outside" of the internal body)

This is new and speculative research, and is considered to be in the realm of "Extreme Microbiology". While the concept shows great promise, and will undoubtedly provide needy PhD' s with grant money, I don't know if this concept is quite ready for "Prime Time" or a Frey Hearing in open court. But it may one day provide a reliable TOD for a body after 33 days in the elements, in the Iowa corn rows.

The cited article, is from the May 2016 "Frontiers in Microbiology"

And yes, I do have reason to know about bacteria that affect the reproductive and urinary tracks. The Lady Doctor I worked for just did not like the mnemonics that I used to teach about the ones that cause disease. Unfortunately, she never heard the filthy mnemonics that the female student doctors in my Board Review Class came up with!

I hope this helps all to understand what the good Dr. Javan meant!

Thank you! I wasn't sure whether oral was internal or external.

Still, if 48 hours is the starting point, the half-life won't be worth much after 33 days, but maybe. Let me think about how to figure this out ... there must be a formula?

Otherwise ...

day 1 : half the specimen
day 2 : 1/4
day 3 : 1/8
day 4 : 1/16
..
day 33 ... would that be 48 divided by 2 - 33 times?

 

[Al Hoffman]

My basic understanding talking to friends about the research and reading what I could of the research:

The body is a molecular life form, when the body stops living a process and stages of decomposition occurs. Temperature and days effect the breakdown of tissue, organs, and internal systems to breakdown.

Thanatomicrobiomic

This Term that was named for this level of study by Dr. Javan Ph.D.
She has no laymans way of describing it just academic scientific analysis of cells decomposing, chemical breakdown of what breaks apart, comes together, and what time tissue and organs die.

My very limited understanding
So someone kills you, you stop living but your body parts don’t all die at once but a process of dying (trace DNA) at the thanatomicrobiomic level. The research can test death at that level and with these DNA databases and research contributions for the HPMP human postmortem microbiome project. We have the DNA gene sequence and RNA is part of this work. If each cell has a job within an organ and organ system, instructions embedded in it to preform a function while body is alive and a reached homeostasis exists, then when body dies these cells continue to go do their job without the support of the other organs and these cells made up of molecules can work together and try to live and it takes longer for them to die even though there is no host to live in.

I’m no chemist, or biologist, just interested in science, but my academic friends in these areas can say and pronounce the words, their meanings and they are fascinated by the work... so obviously it’s beyond their current professional areas and education as most have master degrees in these fields. One friend works with Federal Government in Fish and Wildlife in Wyoming preserving from extinction one fish in a one creek, endangered species. Looked like a very small guppy to me when we went into the field to collect her water samples during my visits.
I want to say Ask SAL; but Al seems to get this as he worked in or around the science.

"?"

See my answer to Ms. Betsy above, about this.

 

[Harmony 2]

Hey everyone, a new thread is open for posting:

IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #45

This thread is closed.

link for graphic

 

[Al Hoffman]

Thank you! I wasn't sure whether oral was internal or external.

Still, if 48 hours is the starting point, the half-life won't be worth much after 33 days, but maybe. Let me think about how to figure this out ... there must be a formula?

Otherwise ...

day 1 : half the specimen
day 2 : 1/4
day 3 : 1/8
day 4 : 1/16
..
day 33 ... would that be 48 divided by 2 - 33 times?

No, not a 48 half-life.

A 48 hour automated rapid sequencing of the bacterial DNA to ID THEIR species (of the bacteria eating the corpse)as a way to determine TOD.