Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #44

[TL4S]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't believe CR left home with plans to kill anyone, and I haven't seen anything stating there was a knife used other than pure speculation. I think it's at least as likely that the reason she had "sharp force" injuries is that he used what he had on hand to attack her. It could very well have been a knife he had on him, but it could also have been a screwdriver or awl that was in the car or a bottle he broke and cut her with, or any number of other things that might be found in a car (especially the trunk). The only reason I might think it shows a preference for that type of weapon is that there were probably at least as many items in the car (or even on the ground) that could have been used to cause blunt force injuries. MOO


I hope that not having any/many long term relationships doesn't mean you're likely to kill somebody! My longest relationship in my life has been less than 5 years (probably closer to 3), the last serious relationship I had was about 25 years ago, and the last relationship I've had of any kind was close to 20 years ago; unless you count my "fiance" - we met when I was about 14-15, when we were in our early 30's we decided we'd get married when we hit our 80's if we were both alive and single by then, so far, so good (but I haven't even talked to him in close to 10 years.) It took me a while to figure it out, but I believe that some of us just aren't cut out to be part of a couple. I love being single, and I don't regret for a minute the decision to stay this way. MOO

I agree, on both counts. I think a tire iron could be a likely weapon. They often have one straight edge. And yes, for a 24 year old guy to have had only one serious relationship (that we know of) doesn't seem odd to me at all. moo

 

[1987]

Not sure I understand what it is that may or may not be known about being owned by the same body or entity? I'm a little lost on that one.

if my legal known name is 1987, but I say maybe buy a car or get a DL in the name of say 2020 same body, same person..same entity, but different names...does the item belong to the person, body, entity whatever clarifies it the best...or does it belong to the name....could 1987 own a item that names 2020 as the owner if the same body bought it but used different names?

 

[Jim G]

When you go cruising the streets of a small Iowa town in the middle of cornfields hassling young teen girls for their looks and make up, you don't need to be an expert to say that's just not right

 

[Kaylas]

I researched the significance of covering a body after a murder. I found it indicates a younger person and the feeling of remorse or not wanting to accept what they did. Other research showed using a knife could indicate some type of emotional attachment to the victim.

Wonder what the research says if the sharp object is a machete?

 

[MsBetsy]

if my legal known name is 1987, but I say maybe buy a car or get a DL in the name of say 2020 same body, same person..same entity, but different names...does the item belong to the person, body, entity whatever clarifies it the best...or does it belong to the name....could 1987 own a item that names 2020 as the owner if the same body bought it but used different names?

I think it belongs to the person using the name as the other person had no part of consenting to it. But then again, the person acquired it under a false name. But legally, I don't know. It depends on whether that person is even alive, or if it is a child. But since that person had no say in the matter I don't think they would be considered the true owner. There are some people here who have had their identity stolen or know someone who has so they can probably give you an answer. Not sure where mom24 is.

 

[Bravo]

IMO likely a Narcissistic Sociopath. Just a guess at this point. He appears to care about his appearance with attention to detail. From reports he was able to continue routines, showing up for work, out in the Community etc. I hope Mollie's loved one's are coping as best they can.

 

[1987]

I think it belongs to the person using the name as the other person had no part of consenting to it. But then again, the person acquired it under a false name. But legally, I don't know. It depends on whether that person is even alive, or if it is a child. But since that person had no say in the matter I don't think they would be considered the true owner. There are some people here who have had their identity stolen or know someone who has so they can probably give you an answer. Not sure where mom24 is.

what has me pondering this riddle is maybe his person had a DL or owned the car but the name CR did not.

 

[katydid23]

You very well may be, and probably are right, but unless you are a mental health professional who has examined him and is qualified to state that, your post probably should have a MOO, like this one.>>>>MOO

Anyone who follows a young woman, attacks her and throws her into the trunk of his car, leaving her for dead in a field, is a sexual deviant,MOO

 

[SteveP]

Anyone who follows a young woman, attacks her and throws her into the trunk of his car, leaving her for dead in a field, is a sexual deviant, IN MY OPINION.

...and my OPINION is the same as yours and the other poster's.

 

[Followfacts]

The autopsy revealed her cause of death to be multiple sharp force injuries.

As far as the vehicle being used to disable Mollie, the possible proof would be in damages to the vehicle. If there is no damage to the vehicle, doubtful an insurance company would ever be held liable for the drivers illegal acts. Can you imagine the precedent that would set? Any time a person committed a robbery and arrived at the crime scene by vehicle, the victim would also be eligibe to collect damages from the vehicle insurance company. The end result would be nobody could afford car insurance. No one case is ever decided without every similar situation in the future getting applied equally.

I still think that the farm owners by letting the unlicensed help use the vehicle resulting in a death, liability it there. The vehicle is what was used to abduct and transport. The vehicle is the one piece of evidence from the film that led LE to Rivera. That vehicle was used to commit crimes by an employee that worked for the farm owners.
I think about my daughter and it would be my decision, in that case it would not matter to me what I had to do to get justice for her, holding the criminal accountable to the fullest extent of the law. Holding the farm owners responsible for their negligence would be based on justice for the loss of my one and only child/ daughter. I recognize that this family may not do this and that is their decision. I on the other hand would make sure to hold every single entity responsible that had any part in or that led to the loss of my daughter.
When I was hit age 27 and badly injured almost killed by a three time arrested drunk driver, my father went and hired the best legal in our town, everyone involved was taken to court, including the bar that served him. It worked out better covering ever base legally. The bar was oh so sorry for their part, my father could have cared less how they felt... the judgement was punitive and sometimes that’s really the only thing these businesses understand monetary loss, which was six figures. The drunk driver well his inheritance was the family home, guess what my dad did? People matter in our family, and so does the law. If your illegal behavior leads to injury or death in my family, just see you in court.

 

[guestwriter]

Carryover from last thread (sorry, don't know how to quote from there):

@Tippy Lynn asked: Out of curiosity....if we could ask LE three questions what would you ask them?

@rebel123 answered:
a) When exactly did you get the CCTV? (1-2 weeks doesn't cut it)
b) Have your recovered the clothing CR worn on the evening / night in question?
c) Have you recovered the following items, the sharp object that caused Mollies death, Mollie's phone and Fitbit?

Great question and excellent response! I would add these:

a) What other towns has CR lived in since coming to the US?
b) Has a criminal record been found under his name, or any known aliases, in either the US or Mexico?
c) What, if any, evidence was found in the Malibu's trunk?

*Bonus question - 'Sup with the Nissan, yo? (my best "gangsta" impression...)

I have More Questions
A Who else own or drove the grey car that was being towed with the Malibu?
B.) Is there any evidence her body was kept at another site besides the car?
C Is there a serial rapist on the loose in that Iowa area?
D Who else did CR tell and who helped him move the body?
E What did he do with his clothes after he supposedly killed her?
F Did either of her brothers know him?

<modsnip: negative speculation not victim friendly>

J Was there a concrete or large container on the property where CR lived?
K What does CR say is the reason he stalked her... Lust, anger, Opportunity?

 

[Al Hoffman]

Brilliant, post mate, wish we could pin it! Using the post #406 for all future reference. As an employer, I've no doubt that using E-Verify for CR's hiring docs would not yield a different result than the SSNVS system used by employer. 4 years steady employment with same employer is the best indicator his "bogus documents are good."

Thank you very much for your kind words. I much respect your contributions.

While I did not post links, simply Googling SSNVS Handbook and What does E-Verify show you?, and What can you ask a new hire? will allow anyone to read the same and more.

I too know from experience how much of a minefield the hiring process and employee management can be. What can seem to be common sense, or something said in anger can come back to bite you. EEOC is a real and present threat.

***************************************
Double Post

Would DJ have any standing? Mollie's status was 'girlfriend'--not even 'fiancee.' I don't intend this to denigrate their relationship--but from a legal standpoint, I wouldn't think that he'd be able to do anything.

This is a good question. For possible TOS reasons I don't want to go too far with this, and ask that the thread respect this. Another poster touched on some of the possible reasons last night. But, yes, I do think that he could have "standing" to file. It would involve revealing possible details about their relationship, but I think it could be doable. The question still is would he, especially if the father asked him to please not do so?

I feel very bad for this young man, and his loss. I hope that he can find a constructive outlet for the emotions to come.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree, on both counts. I think a tire iron could be a likely weapon. They often have one straight edge. And yes, for a 24 year old guy to have had only one serious relationship (that we know of) doesn't seem odd to me at all. moo

Yes, I think people may be assuming it was a knife because it's probably the first thing they think of. It could have been any one of a variety of farm tools. And no, it is not odd at all that he only had one relationship. That alone means nothing. I was in the middle of my first serious relationship at that age myself. I think the descriptions of his staring and not saying anything, and his repetitive messaging late at night to women who had already turned down are bigger red flags but we don't even know if that's true. It seems he was more interested in having " dates" with those women that were interviewed than women were in dating him, except for the woman in the last article,( I think it was today) I forgot her name, but she seemed much older than him. She said he wasn't interested, but that doesn't surprise me at all. Jmo. I also don't think he was interested in " dating" Mollie. He had to have known better that circling and following her in his car was not appropriate. Imo he had to have known she was scared and made it known he was unwelcome if his story is true. Imo I don't think it's believable that he thought it was ok to do what he did, and just got upset and angry then somehow lost it and couldn't remember what happened. It's too convenient, imo. He knew perfectly well what he was doing. He had every intention of killing her, even if he didn't decide to follow through with it until that moment. Imo

 

[TL4S]

guestwriter-g,h,i are incredibly disrespectful IMO

I was replying about the same thing but you beat me to it.

 

[MsBetsy]

Anyone who follows a young woman, attacks her and throws her into the trunk of his car, leaving her for dead in a field, is a sexual deviant,MOO

I believe it was sexually motivated as well. Jmo

 

[SharonNeedles]

I'm sure when he was around those he knew best he was more open and wouldn't have been as quiet and shy. He felt comfortable enough to ask a few girls out. Of course alcohol or some other drug would help with that. But from what we have heard he didnt drink. It seems from what we have read that he persued several women, but not neccessarily after he got to know them, just because they were there. Their descriptions seem to be conflicting. Also I'm sure people that were friendly with him and liked him would describe him in more favorable terms. There are some people who seem extremely shy and barely say a word in a formal setting, but out in "the streets" or wherever they hang out, are more social and outspoken. I just can't see Rivera having a bubbling, charismatic personality or someone who is compassionate or considerate of others. How could he have done what he did if so? What people outwardly show to their friends is not necessarily a reflection of what's inside. He may just be very good at imitating a certain type of personality. Jmo

Hold on, I got just three sentences into that and had to stop. 1) I haven’t found anyone he knows best, nor do I expect to. Our social circles don’t really overlap. 2) He felt comfortable enough to ask a lot of girls out. 3) I have no indication from anyone that he drinks or does drugs.

 

[Al Hoffman]

I might not should be typing this as I don't have my own head wrapped around it very well at this moment, every time I think I might be getting my head solidly around it, it seems to excape. that said I am going to try to ask a question...

we know that CR at least in name did not have a DL, has been said the car was not registered to him. we know he used a different name for work. so if his body and entity that inhabits that body had a DL or car or whatever with a different name on it than what LE is using as the name for that body and entity they would consider that whatever wasn't his as in not CR or that it didn't belong to the same body and entity? it would not be or would be understood to belong to that body and entity no matter the name? it is all clear as mud to me about name he is know to by LE and fake name and who knows if there are any other assumed names and how he may or may not have used any name he may or may not have used. i think i am trying to ask that even if something did belong or was owned by the same body and entity that that doesn't matter if he used a different name? maybe I am down a hole with those critters Al was warning about a couple days ago?

The Jack Russell and the Dashound both welcome you...

There is at least one John Doe currently doing 42 months in prison in Maryland, for ID fraud over the 20 prior years. The authorities can't ID him, and he isn't saying who he actually is.

Google: "John Doe" Sentenced to 42 months in prison for Passport Fraud, Social Security fraud, Aggravated Identity Theft, and Two Counts of Voter Fraud

You'll find him on the group W bench with Arlo....

 

[MsBetsy]

Hold on, I got just three sentences into that and had to stop. 1) I haven’t found anyone he knows best, nor do I expect to. Our social circles don’t really overlap. 2) He felt comfortable enough to ask a lot of girls out. 3) I have no indication from anyone that he drinks or does drugs.

I read the opposite, that he only drinks soda. Just wondering if that's true, not suggesting you try to find out! It does tend to give people the " nerve" to do things they wouldn't normally do!

 

[MsBetsy]

The Jack Russell and the Dashound both welcome you...

There is at least one John Doe currently doing 42 months in prison in Maryland, for ID fraud over the 20 prior years. The authorities can't ID him, and he isn't saying who he actually is.

Google: "John Doe" Sentenced to 42 months in prison for Passport Fraud, Social Security fraud, Aggravated Identity Theft, and Two Counts of Voter Fraud

You'll find him on the group W bench with Arlo....

After being a litter bug

 

[Al Hoffman]

if my legal known name is 1987, but I say maybe buy a car or get a DL in the name of say 2020 same body, same person..same entity, but different names...does the item belong to the person, body, entity whatever clarifies it the best...or does it belong to the name....could 1987 own a item that names 2020 as the owner if the same body bought it but used different names?

People like 2020, are the reason that DMV workers drink! If a car, it belongs to the entity on the title. I hope that all your IDs match, and never get caught by LE with more than one set of ID or Car Titles, with your picture on it, at a time. You could then join the John Doe in prison, in Maryland, for 42 months for ID fraud.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Wonder what the research says if the sharp object is a machete?

That CR grew like my Latino mom did, harvesting and picking by hand with a straight "corn knife"/machete. Even when elderly, she kept a razor sharp machete by the front and back doors, "just in case". I always pictured my pear shaped, elderly mother, running down the street after a scared, cut up, bleeding young thief, yelling "Ven aca, come back here and fight like a man!", while waving the blood slinging machete over her head!".

Latinas, you gotta grow up with 'em to REALLY appreciate them.

MOO