ID - 2 year boy accidentally shoots and kills mother in walmart in ths US

[Elley Mae]

I imagine that in a culture where guns are just another item that automatically goes into your handbag every day with your keys, wallet and phone it's much easier to get so blasé and nonchalant about them that you leave loaded and unsecured firearms in the shopping cart where your toddler can take them, or anyone else really.

bbm What does this mean? If people like boats do you say those are boat culture people? Or if people like to bowl are they the bowling culture people? JMO TIA

 

[IzzyBlanche]

bbm What does this mean? If people like boats do you say those are boat culture people? Or if people like to bowl are they the bowling culture people? JMO TIA

You might want to ask sonjay.

I'm guessing that you're not part of "the gun culture."

I am. I happen to know from personal knowledge and experience that "the gun culture" does not encourage people to leave weapons where young children can get hold of them. In fact, "the gun culture" condemns that sort of irresponsibility even more than the anti-gun culture. "The gun culture" strongly encourages gun owners and CCW carriers to always be vigilant and alert and keep their firearms safe from the hands of young children.

 

[Donjeta]

bbm What does this mean? If people like boats do you say those are boat culture people? Or if people like to bowl are they the bowling culture people? JMO TIA

There are good dictionaries online, see eg. here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture


Do people who like boats or bowling have other things in common? Are there particular ways of thinking, shared attitudes, social conventions, behaviors, beliefs and practices that characterize their groups? If so, there might be a culture.

Plenty of groups and subgroups have their own culture. What is your point?

: the beliefs, customs, arts, etc., of a particular society, group, place, or time

: a particular society that has its own beliefs, ways of life, art, etc.

: a way of thinking, behaving, or working that exists in a place or organization (such as a business)

1
: cultivation, tillage
2
: the act of developing the intellectual and moral faculties especially by education
3
: expert care and training <beauty culture>
4
a : enlightenment and excellence of taste acquired by intellectual and aesthetic training
b : acquaintance with and taste in fine arts, humanities, and broad aspects of science as distinguished from vocational and technical skills
5
a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations
b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture>
c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization <a corporate culture focused on the bottom line>
d : the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristic <studying the effect of computers on print culture> <changing the culture of materialism will take time &#8212; Peggy O'Mara>
6
: the act or process of cultivating living material (as bacteria or viruses) in prepared nutrient media; also : a product of such cultivation

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ow-an-idaho-toddler-shot-his-mom-at-wal-mart/

While away from the lab, she and her husband, whom she married in 2009, spent time shooting guns. &#8220;She was just as comfortable at a camp ground or a gun range as she was in a classroom,&#8221; close friend Sheri Sandow said in an interview. On Facebook, she showed an interest in the outdoors and the National Rifle Association, and followed Guns.com, a publication that reports on gun life.
&#8220;They carried one every day of their lives, and they shot extensively,&#8221; Rutledge said. &#8220;They loved it. Odd as it may sound, we are gun people.&#8221;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ow-an-idaho-toddler-shot-his-mom-at-wal-mart/

It sounds like the family identifies pretty strongly with the kind of way of life where guns are everywhere.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It might be true for most but from where I stand it looks like some people who embrace the gun culture also have an awful lot of excuses if people are irresponsible with their guns and tragedy happens.

I respectfully disagree, Donjeta.

I even find the usage of 'gun culture' offensive. It implies that the gun owners think about nothing else but guns and that is absolutely false. Most don't even see their weapons often as they are either locked away in a safe or in another safe area hidden away. What gun owners never want to have happen is having to use their weapon if someone breaks in and they have to protect themselves. They hope they never have to retrieve their handgun at all but they will do so only if they have to protect themselves from someone who is hell bent on harming them or a member of their family. Other than that most use other weapons to go hunting for meat they cook and eat. Or occasionally go to the gun range to target shoot.

Usually legal gun owners are the first ones to state a person was irresponsible in handling or securing their weapon if it involves a situation like this where the gun was left accessible to children.

I don't make any excuses for these type of gun owners anymore than I do for the drunks, druggies or speeders that gets behind the wheel of a vehicle and kills many thousands of innocent people each year and injures over a million more........many of the injuries sustained are life changing events leading to terrible disabilities including paraplegics or suffering severe brain trauma.

When you take into consideration that there are over 100+ million legal gun owners in our country who own over 250 million weapons of various types it certainly shows that the vast majority of them are very safety conscious and expects every legal gun owner to be.

This year more firearms were bought at Christmastime than ever before. I am sure it has a lot to do with all the unrest we have seen in our country in the past few months. In fact my husband bought me a new 38 pistol this past week. I do not nor would I ever leave a loaded weapon in a purse unattended with a small child in the buggy.

I grew up around guns and so did our five children. I am 68 years old and in all that time I have never known any child/adult who has been hurt by a child finding and playing with a firearm. Not once did we ever leave any weapon out where small children could even see them much less be able to touch them. And we still secure our weapons now since we have grandchildren. They aren't even aware we have handguns. They are aware that we have long guns in our safe since they know their Papa and Nannie go hunting. When our children got older we taught them about gun safety and saw to it they took the safety courses. My hubby always implemented gun safety when he took our daughters/son and grandsons deer hunting. They knew they were to do exactly as he instructed them to do. They were taught to be gun safety conscious at all times and to respect the rules and the gun itself by knowing the power it has and the great responsibility that comes along with owning firearms.

This mother shouldn't have ever left her purse in the buggy with her gun in it. An irresponsible mistake that cost her .........her life.

It was an terrible lapse in judgment.

Do I feel broken hearted for the mother and her family? Of course I do. She seemed to be a very nice young woman.

We have way more irresponsible people than gun owners though, imo. People who drive and kill innocent others..........people who are addicted to alcohol and drugs who wind up over dosing. More people are dying from vehicle accidents and Florida is losing more people from prescription drug and illegal drug use than even automobile accidents. So there is bad judgment in a lot of issues in our country by some.

It just seems to me when something like this happens many will immediately jump and lump ALL of the gun owners together in one sift broad wide brush when in truth the vast majority of legal gun owners take gun ownership and safety very seriously. And most gun owners are respectable law abiding citizens who do not accidentally leave a weapon where someone can be hurt or worse. Nor do they commit most of the violent crimes.

I really hate when accidents like this happens.........not only because this child will have to live with knowing he killed his mother and the great loss the family feels but it starts the anti gun rave/debate against ALL legal gun owners as if every one of them/us are somehow also guilty when the vast majority of legal gun owners do not act recklessly or make bad judgments but instead are totally safety conscious at all times.

 

[CoolJ]

I think "gun culture" refers to a culture, in this case an entire country, where it is acceptable and even encouraged to own and carry guns as you go about your day to day activities.

In a country where there is somewhere in the neighbourhood of THREE HUNDRED MILLION guns, I think it is fair to say there is a "gun culture". In a country with that many guns it is understandable that there are going to be a whole crap load of gun deaths; whether it be murder, suicide or accident. If you could eliminate the crazy amount of guns it is common sense to me that you would eliminate many many deaths (I would say needless deaths, but they are all needless IMO)

 

[sonjay]

It might be true for most but from where I stand it looks like some people who embrace the gun culture also have an awful lot of excuses if people are irresponsible with their guns and tragedy happens.

Just 22 posts into this thread:

People love their guns more than they love their children's safety.

That is what some of us are bristling at.

It's not a matter of excuses. Do you think that woman did that on purpose? Do you seriously think she loved her guns more than she loved her children's safety?

The "gun culture" does not love their guns more than they love their children.

Many of us here who own guns and carry guns have been critical of that woman's judgement. No one is excusing the fact that she left her gun where her kid could get his hands on it.

But..... We also recognize that this was not an intentional act on her part. And we recognize that this type of event is vanishingly rare, in a country with some 70 or 80 million gun owners. We recognize that it does not require a slew of new laws or regulations. It requires perpetual vigilance to keep our children safe. Whether "it" is driving a car, carrying a gun, or boiling water to make pasta. And we recognize that, being human, anyone can make a mistake. In fact, everyone can and does make mistakes. Most of us are fortunate enough to have not made a mistake that resulted in tragedy, but I would bet that most of us have made mistakes that could have resulted in tragedy.

Painting the entire "gun culture" as people who love their guns more than their children is not fair or accurate, and it certainly does nothing for gun safety.

 

[Donjeta]

Just 22 posts into this thread:


That is what some of us are bristling at.

It's not a matter of excuses. Do you think that woman did that on purpose? Do you seriously think she loved her guns more than she loved her children's safety?

The "gun culture" does not love their guns more than they love their children.

Many of us here who own guns and carry guns have been critical of that woman's judgement. No one is excusing the fact that she left her gun where her kid could get his hands on it.

But..... We also recognize that this was not an intentional act on her part. And we recognize that this type of event is vanishingly rare, in a country with some 70 or 80 million gun owners. We recognize that it does not require a slew of new laws or regulations. It requires perpetual vigilance to keep our children safe. Whether "it" is driving a car, carrying a gun, or boiling water to make pasta. And we recognize that, being human, anyone can make a mistake. In fact, everyone can and does make mistakes. Most of us are fortunate enough to have not made a mistake that resulted in tragedy, but I would bet that most of us have made mistakes that could have resulted in tragedy.

Painting the entire "gun culture" as people who love their guns more than their children is not fair or accurate, and it certainly does nothing for gun safety.

I was not talking about all the people who own guns. I have nothing against the people who store their firearms safely away from the children.

However, it was reported that she usually carried on her person but they were looking for something more comfortable for her to carry on. She made the conscious, intentional choice to carry in a bag where the only thing between her inquisitive child and the loaded firearm was a zipper. She must have known as well as anybody else that everyone has moments of inattention. Things come up, you need to set the bag down for a minute, you forget about it for a moment when something else requires your attention, and the child finds it. Boom.

Sorry but I don't believe that anyone who prioritizes their children's safety would ever think that a zipper is acceptable protection between a child and a loaded gun.

Yet that was her choice.

It was not a choice that was made putting her child's safety first. JMO and I'm not apologizing for it.

http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/loca...s-need-a-lock-despite-inconvenience/21126465/

"Well this is a big seller for people with concealed carry," said Larry Hyatt of Hyatt Guns, one of the busiest gun shops in the country.

He says that no mother should consider a zipper enough of a barrier and advises them to add a lock, as well.

"Of course the negative is if you need your gun fast, you're not going to be able to get to it quickly, but there is really not a good solution to the problem. We say put the children first."

Chris Hamilton is a mother and gun enthusiast. Her two boys are now teens, but she can't help but think about Rutledge.

"Me personally, being a mother, when I sell a gun I'm stressing as much -- think of how you are going to store that gun," she said.

She strongly believes that concealed carry purses are not for mothers with small children.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think "gun culture" refers to a culture, in this case an entire country, where it is acceptable and even encouraged to own and carry guns as you go about your day to day activities.

In a country where there is somewhere in the neighbourhood of THREE HUNDRED MILLION guns, I think it is fair to say there is a "gun culture". In a country with that many guns it is understandable that there are going to be a whole crap load of gun deaths; whether it be murder, suicide or accident. If you could eliminate the crazy amount of guns it is common sense to me that you would eliminate many many deaths (I would say needless deaths, but they are all needless IMO)

The criminals would love the hell out of that. Then the only ones armed would be criminals who have never abided by any laws and never will. Isn't it interesting that most all mass shooters target places they know are GUN FREE ZONES?

Just like when we made alcohol consumption illegal during prohibition. Did it stop the selling of alcohol? Heck no. The amount being consumed when along as normal and the only thing it did was make the bootleggers into millionaires.

Then we cracked down on illegal drugs. How did that work out for us? With open borders it has made drug lords into Billionaires and hasn't slowed the drug traffickers and the drug trade down one bit. In fact we are the largest consumer of illegal drugs. The drug lords sell to who demands the drugs. So it is supply and demand.

So we take all the guns away from rightful legal owners that go through the proper channels obtaining one and that leaves the gun runners who are prolific already and the criminals including ex-felons. Illegal guns are being brought in and who do they sell to? The or criminal of course since they cant obtain a weapon legally and are the ones up to no good anyway the vast majority of time.

In the 90s there was a ban on AR-15s for 10 years. Yet the homicide rate using AR15s were the same since killers don't give one whit about bans.

No it isn't fair to say we are a 'gun culture' as if to imply we think only about guns and harming people. Most of the 250 million guns owned legally are never involved in any crime or accident.

What I find interesting is it only seems to matter if someone is killed by a gun when 33% of victims are murdered by other methods such as bludgeonings, stabbings, strangulations, poisoning etc. I guess those thousands don't count. We have approximately 14, 000 homicides yearly out of a nation of 310 million people.

AND our violent crime rate has continued to drop in the last five years yet there are more guns legally bought than ever before. Imo, why our violent crime rate has continued to decrease in the last five years is more and more thugs know that more and more people are armed and have firearms in their homes for protection. Criminals are cowards. They think nothing about robbing, raping, and murdering someone else but they damn sure don't want to be hurt themselves being the yellow bellied cowards they truly are.

In Kennesaw Georgia years ago they implemented a law where every law abiding adult was suppose to own a firearm. Since implementing the law Kennesaw's crime rate plummeted to almost nil.

IMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I am so confused, or maybe just behind on this thread although I've tried to keep up.

I don't understand why saying this mother's actions were negligent with regard to her legally licensed weapon = saying let's ban all guns!

I think this mother was horribly negligent but I recognize that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms.

 

[Paulette]

I didn't realize a harsh, crippling consequence beyond death was even possible but it is good to know society can recover more quickly from an emotional trauma if money exchanges hands.

Of course! One can sue the estate of the person. It's not going to happen in this case though, someone has setup a ******** type of page to beg for donations, I guess to bury her.

Suing for punitive damages is what it suggests - punishment for wrong doing.

There's no amount of money that can help one with emotional trauma. I am aware of that.

 

[SStarr33]

Not to me!

It is normal for American citizens to be armed.

Period.

 

[pukasonqo2]

it was irresponsible to have her gun within easy access to her toddler., i am sorry for her and her baby as i wonder how will he grow up with this weight over his shoulders
on the other hand, if it was a stranger who was hit when the child accidentaly discharged the gun could we still say that she was a responsible gun owner?
i am pro gun control (i am from oz) but that doesn't make me feel less saddened by this
i am also trying to understand why did she feel the need to carry a gun to walmart

 

[CHERIE.T]

I am so confused, or maybe just behind on this thread although I've tried to keep up.

I don't understand why saying this mother's actions were negligent with regard to her legally licensed weapon = saying let's ban all guns!

I think this mother was horribly negligent but I recognize that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms.

imhoo this thread isnt about the 1st post............................................it's anti gun.

 

[Donjeta]

Even the NRA agrees that there is "gun culture".


http://www.nranews.com/home/document/welcome-to-gun-culture-2-0

Welcome to Gun Culture 2.0
..."

Welcome to NRA Freestyle, where culture and firearms collide.

In a May 30 statement, the NRA applauded Texans for the "robust gun culture" in the Lone Star State, but said recent public showings of gun support "crossed the line" and were "downright weird" (emphasis NRA's).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/02/nra-open-carry-activists_n_5433648.html


http://www.nrafreestyle.tv/noir/vid...s-and-gun-culture/list/noir-season-1-episodes

NOIR | Episode 2: &#8220;Colorways & Gun Culture&#8221;
NOIR Sponsored by Mossberg

On this episode of NOIR, Colion and Amy address some criticism the show's first episode received from the mainstream media and discuss the ideal experience when shopping for a gun.

If people get offended because of the perception that the use of the words somehow implies that everybody just wants to kill people imo means that people want to get offended and are willing to put words into other's mouths in order to accomplish that.

 

[Brightbird]

rsbm

If people get offended because of the perception that the use of the words somehow implies that everybody just wants to kill people imo means that people want to get offended and are willing to put words into other's mouths in order to accomplish that.

Totally agree. It definitely doesn't make me think of people wanting to kill people. Nor is it a "code word" for wanting to ban guns. I do get that there is some negative judgement with the term "gun culture" in certain contexts (but not all - Aussies have a "beach culture" and a "footy culture" but that's not offensive), but I really am fascinated and confused by the animosity and defensiveness that comes from both sides of this debate.

 

[Sonya610]

I did find some studies that showed there is an increase in suicide rates with gun ownership. I looked up "Higher suicide rates in homes with guns".

Other factors come heavily into play. White males have the highest suicide rates in the U.S. White males also have the highest legal gun ownership rate. Suicide is highest in White and Asian populations throughout most of the developed world regardless of whether guns are prevalent or non-existent.

England has banned virtually all firearms yet their suicide rate is nearly as high as the U.S. 18 vs 20 per 100k.

 

[Sonya610]

It might be true for most but from where I stand it looks like some people who embrace the gun culture also have an awful lot of excuses if people are irresponsible with their guns and tragedy happens.

Actually I have found it to be the opposite. On gun forums folks always debate/argue with each other a LOT every time a story involving an accidental shooting is posted (unless it involves something really stupid, like a 6 year old using an AR at a range). They argue about whether guns should be carried chamber loaded, and handbag vs. holster carry etc...

Lots of strong opinions get thrown around. Difference is they are arguing with OTHER gun owners so there is no need to be defensive around anti-gun people.

 

[Donjeta]

Actually I have found it to be the opposite. On gun forums folks always debate/argue with each other a LOT every time a story like this gets posted. They argue about whether guns should be carried chamber loaded, and handbag vs. holster carry etc...

Lots of strong opinions thrown around. Difference is they are arguing with OTHER gun owners so there is no need to be defensive around anti-gun people that simply want to ban all firearms and use every tragedy as an excuse.

The easy solution for this would be to stop arguing with the anti-gun people when the anti-gun people actually agree with them.

If pro-gun people attack anti-gun people for expressing the opinion that unsafe gun storage that puts children in danger is irresponsible it is totally counterproductive because it gives the very impression that they're trying to avoid: that advocating responsible gun practices is something that pro-gun people are against.

JMO.


Everybody agrees that guns and toddlers are not a safe combination.
Everybody agrees that the parents should keep their kids safe in all circumstances.
Everybody agrees that most gun owners aren't planning to get their kids killed.

 

[nrdsb4]

bbm What does this mean? If people like boats do you say those are boat culture people? Or if people like to bowl are they the bowling culture people? JMO TIA

Well, the unfortunate young woman's FIL said himself "We are gun people." What do you suppose he meant by that?

 

[Elley Mae]

Well, the unfortunate young woman's FIL said himself "We are gun people." What do you suppose he meant by that?

I would assume it means they like guns, like people that like to ski or play golf, they like to shot.