ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 62

[isabella88]

But if I wanted to talk to the press about a student, I would certainly look up their status. I would never do this as a professor, but I was an administrator for a while, and sometimes it's necessary (it was not necessary in this case and no receptionist should be doing this - we have confidentiality training for our classified staff and this would be against that training, esp. in the health center).

Thanks! My experience with HIPAA is through work in the healthcare industry but not within academic environments.

 

[AliVada]

What would be the strategic reasons for the defense to want to delay the preliminary hearing?

Often in high profile cases, they delay so they have more time plus they want media frenzy to lose interest so if potential jurors had heard anything the likelihood of their recalling it months later does fade, so they hope too it helps them find a more impartial jury.

K

 

[cottonweaver]

warrant docs should be unsealed in a week or two according to legal analyst

 

[Friday Fan]

I don't think it has bearing on the case either. I think some are wondering if the receptionist had the right to blab at all. I know personally it bothers me. Imo.

Receptionist is gonna be in trouble MOO
HiPAA, confidentiality ..whatever..receptionist speaking on behalf of a facility..lots wrong here..

 

[ktm44]

The surviving roommate didn't mention hearing a dog barking, which I think would have been much louder in the home where the dog lived than outside at the neighbor's ring camera, so I have to wonder if a different dog in the neighborhood was barking.

All MOO.

The surviving roommate did mention hearing noises that she thought was K playing with the dog, which I would more expect scuffling sounds you may hear when a dog plays with a tug toy.

I have wondered if the 'discussion about the thud and barking dog just speaks to the effort and scope of the immediate investigation.

 

[louvillian08]

That makes perfect sense to me, but only if I can accept 1) the dog recorded barking wasn’t Murphy and 2) after killing M and K, when he descended the stairs and had a clear exit, he instead came after X and E (but not D). Either is possible I suppose, but I’m leaning strongly to thinking neither is true.

Completely agree here. Whether or not he saw D, he clearly wasn’t concerned about other potential witnesses in the home since it appears he only entered, at most, 3 of the 6 bedrooms.

Also, it’s more than possible he heard X and knew where to go by following the noise. But if he was far enough away when he theoretically saw her that she was able to make it back to her room, wouldn’t there be a chance he wouldn’t know whether to go down the stairs to the first floor vs down the narrow, somewhat hidden hallway to get to her room?

 

[maskedwoman]

And this is where I have a major issue. Really. First, supposedly they have all single-plate Elantra owners in ID and WA and a DNA. Much as I am all for investigative genealogy, isn't it easier to pick up some coffee cups from the Elantra owners and directly compare to their DNAs? Than spend time and money building trees from Gedmatch material?

Another thought - if his parents did DNA tests, submitted DNA to Gedmatch and unlocked the matches (because apparently the DNA was 1/2 match with the Dad), it tells a lot about the parents' social responsibility and also, that they never expected something like this to ever happen to their kid. Thinking of it...

Now, the case you quote is very different. Semen in rape or murder cases is exactly where familial DNA works ideally. But these are old cases. Now, owing to Paul Holes and GSK case, every rapist and murderer knows what not to leave. Partial DNA, transfer DNA is contestable. Semen, not so much (there are some complex cases, but usually it is a direct clue.

MOO: Paul Holes and the media should have kept the details of GSK under wraps, tbh...it would not have propelled Paul to the stardom, but as the method, familial DNA could be of a better use today if the details were not known. What do you think?

We don't know all details of phone tracking. It is still more usable. Digital footprints, too. DNA is very usable, but also, not.

I think it was wrongly assumed that "genealogical" DNA meant gedmatch. I think, in reality, they just tested his father's DNA.

 

[10ofRods]

These reasons for waiving BK's right to a speedy trial sound plausible to me.

However, I the Public Defender's lack of resources is a very significant factor. Specifically, they have no death penalty-qualified trial attorneys, and all their staff attorneys including Ms. Taylor have full caseloads. I suspect the local prosecutor faces the same challenge. This case will consume the full time attention of two senior attorneys on each side for months, and I don't believe the DA or his staff have tried a death penalty case either.

Plus, delay will allow the investigators for both sides to complete their investigations, including (probably) whether BK's mental state could affect the outcome.

It seems to me the DA can only make a decision to pursue the death penalty if he has all the information that both investigations can produce.

With what we know so far, BK's best interests would be served by a plea of guilty and a sentence of life in prison - if such a deal is offered. I've heard all the quibbles offered to the press by noted defense attorneys, but I think a hard headed Idaho jury would find them as weighty as pocket lint.

Ms Taylor is a death penalty qualified attorney, but yes, they do need another one at some point. All that has to be worked out.

Looks like both the DA and Ms Taylor also have pretty full dockets.

I agree about BK's best chances - and yes, you are right, if the DA is going to go for the DP (and I bet he will), he needs to complete the investigation.

Meanwhile, BK can get accustomed to his new circumstances.

 

[YaYa_521]

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[Boodles]

I keep thinking about how pertinent that lack of front license plate was in narrowing down the POI field. And there were 100 male grad students at the WSU Pullman campus who were out of state domestic residents. So for WSU cops, once they found his Elantra, it wouldn’t be too hard to narrow down which of the 100 were from the 21 states listed below by cross-tabbing the data. (Plus, they had BKs drivers license photo from his traffic stop in August.)

Data from December 2022 from Which States Require a Front License Plate?

Total Student Enrollment | Institutional Research | Washington State University

ir.wsu.edu

States That Do Not Require a Front License Plate:​

There are currently 21 states that do not require a front license plate. Even though every state requires at least one license plate to be mounted to each motor vehicle, each state that does not have a front plate requirement requires that a license plate be mounted in the rear of the vehicle.

The following is the list of states that do not currently require a front-mounted license plate:

• Alabama
• Alaska
• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Delaware
• Florida
• Georgia
• Indiana
• Kansas
• Kentucky
• Louisiana
• Michigan
• Mississippi
• New Mexico
• North Carolina
• Ohio
• Oklahoma
• Pennsylvania
• South Carolina
• Tennessee
• West Virginia

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I think it was wrongly assumed that "genealogical" DNA meant gedmatch. I think, in reality, they just tested his father's DNA.

It was misreported early on before the PCA was released that they matched his DNA by genealogical data. There was a miscommunication or misunderstanding between a source and reporters.

 

[10ofRods]

Only if there is a purpose that generally aids the patient. And even then there must be reasonable safeguards. This site lays out the issue quite well, hopefully ending the debate here: HIPAA Waiting Rooms

Sure does settle the question for me.

Where I live, almost every medical facility has people go and sign a clipboard, but when we're called back, they use just our first names. The person who does the calling of names is a nurse and that person reviews the chart briefly so that they can eyeball the waiting room in case more than one person of the same first name is there. These days, they try to keep as few possible people in the waiting room at one time, unlike the olden days.

 

[ktm44]

This is something else that really troubles me… we’d have a better understanding if we had a trail of bloody footprints to follow. How is it even possible that he didn’t track blood all over?

This has been explained a few times too. The mattresses would have absorbed a great deal of blood but it's also a misconception that all stabbing wounds cause arterial spray.

Based only on the coroner and LE statements, it has been suggested that the victims were stabbed in the upper torso which means there is a chance that the victims bled into the body cavity.

 

[10ofRods]

I keep thinking about how pertinent that lack of front license plate was in narrowing down the POI field. And there were 100 male grad students at the WSU Pullman campus who were out of state domestic residents. So for WSU cops, once they found his Elantra, it wouldn’t be too hard to narrow down which of the 100 were from the 21 states listed below by cross-tabbing the data. (Plus, they had BKs drivers license photo from his traffic stop in August.)

Data from December 2022 from Which States Require a Front License Plate?

Total Student Enrollment | Institutional Research | Washington State University

ir.wsu.edu

States That Do Not Require a Front License Plate:​

There are currently 21 states that do not require a front license plate. Even though every state requires at least one license plate to be mounted to each motor vehicle, each state that does not have a front plate requirement requires that a license plate be mounted in the rear of the vehicle.

The following is the list of states that do not currently require a front-mounted license plate:

• Alabama
• Alaska
• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Delaware
• Florida
• Georgia
• Indiana
• Kansas
• Kentucky
• Louisiana
• Michigan
• Mississippi
• New Mexico
• North Carolina
• Ohio
• Oklahoma
• Pennsylvania
• South Carolina
• Tennessee
• West Virginia

Yep. Despite what someone posted yesterday about CA (perhaps a typo?), CA isn't one of them. Which is why many of us have both front and rear cameras on our cars. (I have zero cameras on my car, and would likely fail to operate it properly if I did have one, so I'll just drive around unseen).

(That was sort of a joke).

 

[Colorado303]

That's probably true but my dentist' office used to have us sign in when we got there on a large sheet and they removed that a couple of years ago, saying it violated privacy. I guess because other patients could read it and see who was there ahead of them.

And emergency rooms used to have a whiteboard listing room number, patient’s last name and primary complaint (i.e. back pain, vomiting, etc.) along w/name of Dr assigned. Post HIPAA they can write the patient’s last name or the primary complaint but not both.

ETA: IMO a medical office confirming to pretty much anyone, especially a reporter, that person X is/was a patient would be a violation. Even moreso if the office engages in any kind of specialty. Whether we’re seeing an obstetrician, psychologist, plastic surgeon or cardiologist it’s nobody’s damn business but our own (and those needed to provide and administrate care/payment).

 

[Firstsnow4]

I keep thinking about how pertinent that lack of front license plate was in narrowing down the POI field. And there were 100 male grad students at the WSU Pullman campus who were out of state domestic residents. So for WSU cops, once they found his Elantra, it wouldn’t be too hard to narrow down which of the 100 were from the 21 states listed below by cross-tabbing the data. (Plus, they had BKs drivers license photo from his traffic stop in August.)

Data from December 2022 from Which States Require a Front License Plate?

Total Student Enrollment | Institutional Research | Washington State University

ir.wsu.edu

States That Do Not Require a Front License Plate:​

There are currently 21 states that do not require a front license plate. Even though every state requires at least one license plate to be mounted to each motor vehicle, each state that does not have a front plate requirement requires that a license plate be mounted in the rear of the vehicle.

The following is the list of states that do not currently require a front-mounted license plate:

• Alabama
• Alaska
• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Delaware
• Florida
• Georgia
• Indiana
• Kansas
• Kentucky
• Louisiana
• Michigan
• Mississippi
• New Mexico
• North Carolina
• Ohio
• Oklahoma
• Pennsylvania
• South Carolina
• Tennessee
• West Virginia

Thanks for this - I assumed he didn’t have a front license plate to avoid detection - didn’t realise its not required in certain states. I’m in the UK so can someone please explain how it works? Is it the state the car is registered to that requires the plates or the state you are driving in? (I.E BKs car was a Pennsylvania plate but he was driving in Idaho)

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Stalking is the hunting of humans. It is an extremely deviant behavior. It is not normal and you cannot find a reason or provocation that justifies hunting human beings. Bullied, not bullied. Does not matter. Hunting and slaughtering humans is not justified or explained with any rational explanation. I would guess brain differences have to exist, but, when an individual knows right from wrong (i.e., turning off the cellphone, hiding covertly, going in the house in black at night), that individual made a conscious choice to slaughter innocent lives. Whether they were happy or popular or whatever, they were young adults at school trying to create a future, butchered in the prime of their lives. Ironically, even their grieving families would not, after learning of the slaughter of their son and daughters would not be legally justified in taking the same revenge. They will be reduced to a legal process that will never feel like justice.

I share this because my family was stalked by two individuals for two years that we thought were going to kill us. The provocation? They willingly relinquished rights to a special needs child who became our daughter. She was terrified of them. She vomited every time she saw them. She was three years old when we met her and five when she was adopted. This is how we started our trauma journey and my field in abuse now. These two individuals did NOT want her back. Our daughter reported abuse in their home on several occasions to counselors. We were absolutely stuck. My husband and I had three other young children at the time. These two grown adults, moved from over 1000 miles away. They went to my children's school to scare them. One applied for a job as a janitor to stalk my children. They went to my husband's work. They drove by our home repeatedly, terrifying our children. The sheriff's officer had a deputy assigned to drive by our country home (17 minutes for 911) to make sure we were alive. I cannot begin to express the horror. My oldest child, still young, dropped out of elementary school with repeated panic attacks. If he left home, they would go to his school (shared by all four kids). He did not trust the school could protect him like his mom would. He went into a very severe panic and anxiety overload. There were pictures of the stalkers at the elementary school and anywhere else we were. The university I taught for posted an armed security guard by my college class so I could continue to teach. One day, I was at church, without my husband, I got out of my car with four small children. As I went to go in, with children in tow, the man, well over 6 foot tall came to me. I froze. What could I do? If I ran, my children could not keep up. I would never leave them. I could not fight him. I had no time to call 911. Fortunately, I ran into the church, interrupting the meeting, and church members called 911 and different families took each of my children to separate places to hide them. When the officers came, the two individuals presented a poem on death and a child screaming from a coffin.

We had twelve restraining orders - one against each individual for six members of our family. They were jailed and continued. We had no way out. We could not "give back" our daughter to such abuse and terror and would not consider it. We could not protect our three young children. Every time we slept, we knew we were vulnerable. Our children were vulnerable. I read Gavin de Becker's Gift of Fear and contacted their agency for help. I was forced to learn methods to protect my children and family and became proficient. As an attorney, testifying at the trial was still one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. They were the hunters. We were their prey. At that trial, I summoned all my courage, after two years of intense stalking, looked them in the eye and said, "Normal people do not hunt other people, especially children." When I was done testifying, I collapsed sobbing into the arms of the victim advocate.

This is a hard story for me to share. Years later, the male turned up at an event I was speaking at on trauma and abuse to sit and stare at me as I was running a conference on abuse. He had free frequent flier miles and could be anywhere he knew I would be. Did they know what they were doing? Yes. Had they been bullied? I don't care. Were they mentally ill? Maybe, but they were fully aware of every action they took and nothing, besides a conviction and jail time would stop them. Even that, did not stop him from showing up years later. My daughter has never been in a year book. I do not share information on her on facebook. We keep her hidden because we do not know what they want with her. She is now the same age as the victims. Maybe that is why this resonates so strongly for me. Normal humans do not hunt humans. As terrified as we were, we knew we were being stalked. These young adults in Idaho did not get that blessing. They were sleeping. They had done nothing that could ever justify the horror they endured and, for what? There is no reason. When we can clearly tell that this was a premeditated attack on innocent human life, there is no sadness for the hunter and there is no justification that even merits consideration. They deserved to live. And, even if the killer didn't think so, they deserved a fair fight. This was not fair in any sense of the word. To hunt the sleeping in their own home at the darkest hour of night is cowardly, deviant and there will never be a reason that merits justification or explanation, especially when it is clear the killer was aware that the actions were wrong. It was a choice. It was a thrill. It was a crime against all of society. There is a price to be paid when humans deviate to the thrill of hunting other humans. Thanks for letting me share my story. To this day, it is still difficult to tell.

I think this story is something we can all learn from. Stalking is deviant and evil. And hunting and killing people asleep in their beds is very very deviant.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm sure the defense will try and get jurors seated who feel that people who don't lock their doors gets what they get. JMO.

Pretty sure that will be clarified in jury instructions (Idaho law as to what constitutes burglary doesn't mention that the door has to be locked).

But yeah, defense will want people who will victim blame and victim blaming is likely to be the main defense strategy, as many of us fear and have seen before.

Good to see you on this case, RANCH.

 

[Down To Earth]

Cuts on face:

View attachment 394872View attachment 394873

Bryan Kohberger Held Without Bail, Trial Won't Start Until Summer

Bryan Kohberger is in no hurry to stand trial for the quadruple murder, and, not shockingly, the judge is ordering him to be held without bail until that trial.

www.tmz.com

Complete speculation on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's been in a trace ruminating, mindlessly picking at some imperfections in his skin, until they started to bleed. I think there can be a type of subconscious troubleshooting loop going on over and over in a ruminating mind, obsessing on flaws or mistakes, and the body just follows along with the mind, trying to bite tiny jagged edges of the fingernails off or trying to scrape off a little bump on the cheek or whatever. Rumination about being perfect which of course leads to an even worse condition. My pure speculation of course.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Thanks for this - I assumed he didn’t have a front license plate to avoid detection - didn’t realise its not required in certain states. I’m in the UK so can someone please explain how it works? Is it the state the car is registered to that requires the plates or the state you are driving in? (I.E BKs car was a Pennsylvania plate but he was driving in Idaho)

Different states have different laws about registering automobiles. Pennsylvania only issues a rear license plate. There are various styles of PA plates (One of my cars has a fairly old one about preserving wild animals). PA also requires yearly re-registration (although you can opt to do 2 years at a time) and owners must submit proof of auto insurance. There is also annual vehicle inspection (with dated stickers) for the car and for emissions. Some other states issue license plates for both front and rear.