ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[Cryptic]

I think BK is an opportunist and for some reason the house the girls occupied seemed to him an opportunity for committing multiple murder. It may have been as simple the girls' house providing multiple undefended targets and a reasonable path to escape.

Its possible that the murders were simply going to be the first in a series of opportunistic murders.

As the same time @10ofRods portrayal of BK's situation might suggest that the murders were due to internal stress, rather than a planned "career".

As @10ofRods related (correct me if am wrong), BK's ability to receive free tuition and a stipend for his TA position was very rare- especially for first year doctoral student with no real world experience in his field and an academic ability that was probably good- but by no means "off the charts".

BK, however, endangers his good fortune by running a large number of student complaints. When confronted with his performance issues, BK does not respond by toning himself down a little. Instead, as 10rods related, he gives the program the academic equivelent of a big, bold "FU" by systematically giving everyone As.

BK is now in danger of being booted and losing his free tuition and his stipend. For BK, I am thinking this could be life changing:

No family money to fall back on, no savings, no established career alternatives and no extraordinary ability giving easy second chances ala "Ok, bad start with the doctorate at "U of "X"? I am still the signals engineer who designed Space X's upright landing processor. "U of Y" also wants me- with the same bennies. Re-booting now.... "

BK's stress then re awakens violent tendencies in general? Or, re awakens latent hostilities towards personality types he despises- say, attractive, socially adept and socially confident women? He then finds a target and commits a one occasion only rage murders?

As a side note, 10rods also correlated his observed mood swings and behavior from his performance discipline, the "FU", the murders, post murder and then linkage of the white elantra. It makes alot of sense.

 

[10ofRods]

I’m sure LE/FBI know what he bought. JMO

[…]

Bryan Kohberger’s cellphone data indicates he drove his white Hyundai Elantra to the Lewiston-Clarkston Valley on Nov. 13. Court documents say surveillance footage from the Clarkston Albertsons shows Kohberger exiting the vehicle at 12:49 p.m.
Interior surveillance cameras show the suspect walking through the store, purchasing unknown items at the checkout and leaving at approximately 1:04 p.m.

When contacted by the Lewiston Tribune on Thursday, an employee at the Clarkston grocery store said management is not commenting on the case or releasing the footage to the media at this time.

The white Elantra was also seen in the parking lot of the Chef’s Store at 820 Port Drive and passing by Kate’s Cup of Joe, which is on the same street. An employee at the coffee stand said the car was spotted in the drive-through, but the driver did not stop and order anything.
Detective Bryon Denny of the Clarkston Police Department said he was asked to obtain some surveillance footage by Idaho authorities. However, the FBI handled the Albertsons portion of the investigation.
“We were just called to check the video of the Chef’s Store parking lot,” Denny said. “It did not appear he entered the store.”

[…]

Kohberger was allegedly in Clarkston hours after students were killed

The man accused of slaughtering four University of Idaho students was in Clarkston on the day of the murders, according to the affidavit released Thursday.

lmtribune.com

So, did he walk down to the Snake River (which is very approachable right behind Kate's?)

 

[Deleted member 315675]

It will be a questions until answered, what his background from the younger years were like. i.e. was there family dysfunction, was there social issues, was there any evidence of treating animals poorly. It will be more questions like these and answers that will tell us about why this young man went this route and if it was his first foray into something like this. Clearly, it would not be his last, if he had gotten away with it.

 

[Cindizzi]

So, did he walk down to the Snake River (which is very approachable right behind Kate's?)

Yes the fact that his car was in line at the drive through but he didn’t purchase anything is quite interesting IMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I believe EARONS/GSK (DeAngelo) also did this. He had maps. He actually made phone calls and hung up on people to figure out their daily patterns, so that he knew approximately when people got home from work and which houses had a woman alone in them at night and which houses had a male occupant after a certain hour (he didn't care if there were males there, apparently, instead enjoying dominating the male in various ways). Eventually, he would start killing his prey, but not at first.

I don't think DeAngelo stalked specific people as much as he stalked neighborhoods with particular characteristics of his choosing. It's possible he did zero in on some victims (esp. in Visalia, as I believe him to be the Visalia Ransacker as well, and during that phase, he was amping up to serial killing).

Here, it could be both. When this story first broke, there were already-existing TikToks (now gone) of two of the victims, emphasizing their specialness to the U of ID social scene, but with some jealousy exhibited by some who appeared to be other sorority girls. At any rate, at the time, when I went to TikTok and typed in University of Idaho, the TikToks about these two victims were trending and comments on them went way back before the time of the murders. So it's possible BK did the same thing I did and would have seen pictures (leading directly to Instagram, IMO) of two of the victims if he scrolled the top results. There was quite a bit of information about their lives in those TikToks.

IMO. Observation.

The TikToks certainly add a new dimension to my thinking. The very nature of social media (and maybe especially TikTok and Instagram) objectifies people. How appealing might those highly curated images of popular young women be to someone who was looking for high-value targets, if what he wanted was to kill a houseful of popular college kids?

 

[Which_pancake]

Lots of reasons to meet up with others. Gamers for example. Here's a link for an Airsoft (kind of like paintball) meetup in Moscow. https://disboard.org/server/991591139796852796

Not saying this happened, but it's a possibility.

Role playing games is another possibility I thought of (like dungeons and dragons). MOO

 

[layer]

It sure can be tracked. If, for example, LE thought a RSO was parked outside my house (one block and around the corner from the school), using his cellular data, they could stop by to see if that same phone had pinged my router (which it would unless it had WIFI disabled).

Phones don't ping wifi connections. LE can track cell tower pings through providers, with a warrant. Check your router log and see if it records cell phones that never connected. I know of no consumer routers that do this.

 

[jcamh]

Question: Do you think in any of BCK's 12 other drive-by of the house that occurred late at night that he stopped to see how easy it would be to enter the house, or maybe that he did enter the house to see the layout? Almost like dry runs?

 

[10ofRods]

Hmm... I'm not sure graduate students check out the social scene in the same way as undergrads. At least that was our experience and what we've observed over the years -- we live in an area with two universities nearly the same distance from each other as WSU and Univ Idaho are from each other. Graduate students tend to initially hang out with folks in their program/department. Or if there's a graduate student society which organizes social events, they would check that out. IMO, it's kind of weird for BK to be over in Moscow so quickly. He did say that the shopping is better in Moscow when he was arrested, though, didn't he? Maybe he meant "stalking" instead of shopping.... Eek...

IMO MHO MOO

You say "our" experience. I assume you may be part of a couple? My observation is that married or coupled grad students do not go check out the student scene much or at all. But, single grad students do. When I was in grad school, there was a single grad student dormitory (with single rooms, but shared baths). It was itself a kind of party destination and the residents there had been popping up at my undergrad house for social events (same university for grad and undergrad). That particular residence was almost entirely men. (67% of the undergrads were men; 75% of the grads were men, so that helps explain that).

Yes, grad students almost always have a pre-school meet-up for their cohort, and BK apparently didn't do well at making friends. One of his neighbors said he was likable enough at the beginning, but he began to avoid BK as the semester warmed up, because BK would corner him and not stop talking.

I believe BK was not bonding well with his fellow grad students. It's possible he wasn't invited to their little gatherings. In my cohort, we quickly learned to avoid inviting this one guy. Our main party-hoster (who went on to become Poet Laureate of the United States) did not want that one dude at his apartment. I understood why. I happened to live in the same building as "that guy" and therefore spoke to him rather more often (something I would later regret).

BTW, "that guy" was indeed going to undergrad parties, even though he was married (he lied to the rest of our cohort and said he was not, but I could see with my own eyes that he was in married student housing - and back then, you had to swear you were married to get that housing; I had met his wife - she knew they were married, because she wouldn't have been able to apply for a green card/permanent residency without them being married).

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I am not confident that there is no other DNA on the sheath and fully expect to hear evidence as to which victim(s) DNA is also on it.

Yep.

 

[Ghostwheel]

This map is for Verizon, you can select a different carrier at the below link. IMO, looks like there are enough cell towers to deduce he was in the residential area south of UI.

Also, I thought I read somewhere on this case that they could use "arc" technology to determine positioning among an arc from a cell tower. Think MH370 where they had certain arcs or lines that they came up with based on satellite pings. Someone more technological can correct me, but they may have more certainty he was truly close to King Rd than just "he pinged a cell tower in Moscow"

View attachment 395548

SOURCE: Verizon (United States of America)Cell Tower Map

The thing about cell towers is that they are not always consistent due something blocking the signal, such as a mountain or a really tall building. It can also be due to the fact that all the channels on the close tower are busy, resulting in the phone choosing a different tower. Today I ping off of tower a, tomorrow I ping off of tower b. Each cell-site may have only 200 channels, which would allow it to hold 100 calls at a time, iirc. This may be outdated, I'll have to check. So more subscribers more towers for it all to work. Also, iirc, CMDA (Verizon or Sprint for example) would be able to connect at a farther distance( 35 miles if the world were flat and nothing in the way) than GSM (AT&T or T-Mobile for example, 22 miles if the world were flat and nothing in the way)

The other thing is that they ping more frequently when you move from tower to tower, so movement is more easily seen. If you aren't moving, you are staying on the same tower in theory. Of course, if you turn it off it doesn't ping and thinks you are where you were at last ping.

What the affidavit does say is that at the time BK used the resources, the king street house was also using those same resources. But it doesn't say what those resources encompassed on any given day.

Once/if they get GPS (assuming it is available), that could track to the nearly exact location where he was.

This is all based on research I did trying to figure out why my phone doesn't work at my own house, so in my experience only. I will see if I can find some of the pages I originally got the info from.

 

[10ofRods]

or iPhones don't ping wifi connections. LE can track cell tower pings through providers, with a warrant. Check your router log and see if it records cell phones that never connected. I know of no consumer routers that do this.

Phones "touch" routers, is SG's word. If you don't like the word "ping" and want it to be only cellular, I get that. The official term, I think, is "handshake protocol." And according to the IT people I know, my router could indeed give some identifying information about that weird car that parked outside for 3 hours the other day. I just don't know how to make my router cough that up.

If I were to attempt to join my neighbor's networks, that should be in the router log. In order to do that, though, I have to do more than just look at the name of the router. So that's why I used the word "ping." To me, a ping is an electrical signal sent out by a device. The device does NOT know where it's sending said signal, it radiates outward from the device in every direction (blocked by various features of the house and landscape, but initially in every direction). My router signal does the same thing (goes in every direction from its position in our house). My neighbors can see my router's name. I can see theirs. I do know there's a way to set up a router to hide this, but do not know anyone who has done it.

They do not *join* someone else's wireless, the device just knows the routers are there. How else would we ever sign on to networks at Starbucks? You can see the network on your phone (at every hotel and restaurant) even if some of them are employee only or inaccessible.

At any rate, that's it for me on this topic.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611447996599914497

 

[mzmarymac]

I didn't know this -- thanks for sharing. If this is indeed true, he probably cast a wide net stalking / planning / looking for targets. Obviously the PCA focused on his repeated visits to the area of King road, but I'll certainly be looking forward to learning more about his movements before the end of August.

I'm getting a Joe Goldberg vibe from this guy. Anyone seen the show You with Penn Badgley? He becomes fixated on a particular woman and stalks her. In the first season, he watches the girl through her windows (no blinds.) And he stalks her socials and then inserts himself into her life. That's his MO. I think BK thought that was what he was doing. But he was no Joe Goldberg. Joe was smooth with women and had a nerdy charm that disarmed them. BK couldn't charm any girl. I am still thinking he was stalking MM or KG. I lean toward MM due to her window being so easily seen and the big M in the window. I bet he visited her at her job or tried talking her up in a bar and was rebuffed. He never would have stood a chance with her and he realized that.

Again, I think he went after her not realizing Kaylee was in town. I think he felt this was his chance to sneak in there and find his way to his room and whatever. But nothing went to plan. Hence the messy crime scene, the multiple murders. I bet there is evidence in that car and possibly in his apartment. I also bet there is evidence in his phone and computer history showing that he was stalking her.

I don't think he did this to create the "perfect crime." I think he felt he had enough knowledge in criminology to get away with it, but I bet he had no idea going in this would be such a major case.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Its possible that the murders were simply going to be the first in a series of opportunistic murders.

As the same time @10ofRods portrayal of BK's situation might suggest that the murders were due to internal stress, rather than a planned "career".

As @10ofRods related (correct me if am wrong), BK's ability to receive free tuition and a stipend for his TA position was very rare- especially for first year doctoral student with no real world experience in his field and an academic ability that was probably good- but by no means "off the charts".

BK, however, endangers his good fortune by running a large number of student complaints. When confronted with his performance issues, BK does not respond by toning himself down a little. Instead, as 10rods related, he gives the program the academic equivelent of a big, bold "FU" by systematically giving everyone As.

BK is now in danger of being booted and losing his free tuition and his stipend. For BK, I am thinking this could be life changing:

No family money to fall back on, no savings, no established career alternatives and no extraordinary ability giving easy second chances ala "Ok, bad start with the doctorate at "U of "X"? I am still the signals engineer who designed Space X's upright landing processor. "U of Y" also wants me- with the same bennies. Re-booting now.... "

BK's stress then re awakens violent tendencies in general, or re awakens latent hostilities towards personality types he despises- say, attractive, socially adept and socially confident women? He then finds a target and commits a one occasion only rage murders?

As a side note, 10rods also correlated his observed mood swings and behavior from his performance discipline, the "FU", the murders, post murder and then linkage of the white elantra. It makes alot of sense.

I spent a few years supervising first-year teaching assistants. It's possible for someone to recover from a bad start; the student complaints could be a teachable moment in the TA's teaching career. But evidently BK is not teachable when his sense of superiority or authority is challenged.

 

[Ccging]

Yes the fact that his car was in line at the drive through but he didn’t purchase anything is quite interesting IMO

How do we know he did not purchase anything?

 

[Bliss_Perth]

Phones don't ping wifi connections. LE can track cell tower pings through providers, with a warrant. Check your router log and see if it records cell phones that never connected. I know of no consumer routers that do this.

Yeah - i thought i was the other way around. if my cell was constantly doing that it would go flat. So it's the router that is sending packets out constantly to devices near by. Most consumer routers have those alerts turned off but your isp collects that data.

 

[10ofRods]

The TikToks certainly add a new dimension to my thinking. The very nature of social media (and maybe especially TikTok and Instagram) objectifies people. How appealing might those highly curated images of popular young women be to someone who was looking for high-value targets, if what he wanted was to kill a houseful of popular college kids?

That's what I keep thinking. Kaylee and Maddie were not the only young women with a University of Idaho "top level" TikTok/Instagram presence (by that, I mean coming up first in my own search results on Monday or Tuesday evening of the first week). I did not search by their names, but by then, others were, so perhaps that boosted their results on my search.

However, I learned so much about them in just minutes and was quickly able to find their names on Instagram. I could see that both the TikTok and Insta material had had many visitors and comments before the murders (naturally, there are far more followers on Insta now). All of those pictures of Kaylee and Maddie posing together, holding hands, making a heart with their bodies, smiling for the camera, etc - were around already and have been tweeted long after the original source material has (in some cases) been removed. There were also some uncomplimentary things said about the pair, even before the murders (according to the timestamps on the comment material). But most of it was simply saying how cute they are.

I never came across a picture of Xana until I specifically searched for her.

Did BK do something similar? Also, did he plan this crime for Veterans Day Weekend, knowing it was the last Big Party weekend of that semester? Did he know Kaylee had moved out? Why did Kaylee move out? I do wonder if any of the young women was feeling creeped upon or unsafe.

 

[10ofRods]

Yeah - i thought i was the other way around. if my cell was constantly doing that it would go flat. So it's the router that is sending packets out constantly to devices near by. Most consumer routers have those alerts turned off but your isp collects that data.

Mine is set up not to notify me, I have to do an action to see the other routers. I never run out of battery on the daily, but then, I don't use my phone for much.

I got really tired being notified, so I turned it off.

 

[r3d-ros3]

I spent a few years supervising first-year teaching assistants. It's possible for someone to recover from a bad start; the student complaints could be a teachable moment in the TA's teaching career. But evidently BK is not teachable when his sense of superiority or authority is challenged.

Agree -- it's especially challenging when department's ask or require first year students to TA or teach if they don't have experience. Luckily I had teaching experience when I began my PhD, but there were a lot of rough moments even with some experience. You're absolutely right and, IMO, BK was probably struggling with his perceived self image in response to how poorly TAing was going (at least according to some of his unsatisfied students).

Also, was BK's MA online? Or at least partially online? I wonder if he was having a difficult time adjusting to in person classes and socializing, especially at the PhD level. We know from some of his peers that he made comments that bothered them.