ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 69

[r3d-ros3]

Was it ever stated how many undergrads were in this class? Just curious. MOO

No, but we do know he TA'd for two classes (Criminal Law and something else that I am not remembering at the moment). I imagine the classes were pretty large to qualify for TA's, but it differs from school to school.

 

[Dotta]

Oh, I totally agree with you. Even in medicine, I would say it's inappropriate. My point is just that it does happen. If this happened, I do think it was inappropriate and as you said, soul-crushing. It does stand to reason that it could be one more piece to explain his personality. Professional bullying and humiliation is difficult to cope with.

Or maybe it was seen as a chance to explain misunderstanding face to face?
Students could ask questions concerning their grades and he could explain his attitude and method of grading?
It depends on the atmosphere of this meeting - was it friendly or aggressive?

Communication is important.

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I respectfully disagree. It shows a pattern, a pattern that BK put himself in close proximity to the victims, repeatedly. They know where he was, because of cell phone pings, wifi, video surveillance footage (from businesses, etc.). If he was at the restaurant, that, along with all of BK's close proximity to the victims, is huge.... It shows a pattern of behavior, it adds to the case.

Wouldn't it just prove how small the community is? I think the only way it would prove anything is if it's something unusual for that area and I'm not getting the sense that it is. He lived only 8 miles away, right? So it makes sense to me that in two small sister towns, they may visit the same locations.

I may revise this once we have more information about where his phone pinged, but for now, I want to post the passage from the PCA that has gotten so much attention. It says:

"On December 23, 2022 pursuant to that search warrant, I received historical records for the 8458 Phone from AT&T from the time the account was opened in June 2022. After consulting with CAST SA, I was able to determine estimated locations for the 8458 Phone from June 2022 to present, the time period authorized by the court. The records for the 8458 Phone show the 8458 Phone utilizing cellular resources that provide coverage to the area of 1122 King Road on at least twelve occasions prior to November 13, 2022. All of these occasions, except forone, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of their respective days."

It doesn't say he was at the house or even on the street. It just says that his phone pinged a tower that "provides coverage to the area of 1122 King Road."

That is incredibly vague and not even approaching a smoking gun, IMO.

Where else does the tower provide coverage besides 1122 King Road? How long was he there? A drive through is different from being stopped somewhere along the road. How many other random cars have this same pattern of 12 pings in that area? So many questions.

JMO.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Idaho murders victim Kaylee Goncalves had reported possible missing woman sighting to police

Slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves closely followed true crime and missing persons news and once reported a sighting of a woman who vanished.

www.foxnews.com

One thing this article makes clear to us (not that it matters in the investigation, but it has been discussed here) is that KG had not just moved into the King Rd. house in August, even though the lease was signed then. Per the police report shown in this article, she was living at the King Rd. house in 2021 at the time she made the report.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Murphy… An odd thought occurred to me, (as they often do).

I’ve been told some dogs have a keen sense of smell. If Murphy were brought around BK, I wonder if he would recognize BK and react? Could Murphy be triggered or have any memory of the murder?

Poor pup, he’s probably afraid of everyone now.

 

[Nila Aella]

No, but we do know he TA'd for two classes (Criminal Law and something else that I am not remembering at the moment). I imagine the classes were pretty large to qualify for TA's, but it differs from school to school.

I think it matters how large the class was. In my experience, classes can be anywhere from 12-300 people. I am not familiar with all the workings of class size requirements for TA's though. JMO

 

[Zella]

That makes sense and I agree that it probably varies based on the field of study. IMO, making a first-year graduate student TA stand up in front of a class full of undergraduates to answer for their severe grading seems totally uncalled for in the social sciences or humanities. The professor probably could have saved it for a private conversation, and could have been as serious as they imagined the matter warranted. I definitely believe that med school and residencies / internships seem like a different ball game (and dare I say, one with higher stakes? I say this as a PhD in a humanities field).

Yeah I agree for a humanities/social sciences program, this would have been considered absolutely mortifying. I was in an English program and taught composition on my own as a TA but did act as a TA one semester for a lit professor. He actually asked me about my grading privately before the first paper was returned to them because he felt like I was being too hard on them, but I was not a first-year teacher/grad student and he'd also hand-picked me for the position and trusted me and was a very kind person. He wasn't approaching me to humiliate me. He had a genuine concern. When I pointed out my reasoning for the grades, he ended up agreeing and telling me maybe I was being too lenient. LOLOL

In any event, I think it's possible the professor is famously gruff and didn't think it would be a big deal, but I think it's also quite possible that he was very well aware of how embarrassing it would be for BK and maybe did it intentionally because he felt like he needed to be knocked down a peg or two.

The professor I worked with had talked with me about us being a united front since students will often approach whomever they think will be the softer touch to beg for grades--they always went to him instead of me--so I think even if he'd been very unhappy with my performance, he would never have undermined me like that in front of students. He'd have torn into me in private, though.

I am pretty sure that's a pretty standard dynamic for many professor/TA relationships because otherwise the system breaks down, not only between the professor and TA but also between the students and the TA. I'm assuming this professor likely is very used to having TAs in his class, and it seems significant to me that he basically threw his TA to the wolves. MOO

 

[Dotta]

Yeah I agree for a humanities/social sciences program, this would have been considered absolutely mortifying. I was in an English program and taught composition on my own as a TA but did act as a TA one semester for a lit professor. He actually asked me about my grading privately before the first paper was returned to them because he felt like I was being too hard on them, but I was not a first-year teacher/grad student and he'd also hand-picked me for the position and trusted me and was a very kind person. He wasn't approaching me to humiliate me. He had a genuine concern. When I pointed out my reasoning for the grades, he ended up agreeing and telling me maybe I was being too lenient. LOLOL

In any event, I think it's possible the professor is famously gruff and didn't think it would be a big deal, but I think it's also quite possible that he was very well aware of how embarrassing it would be for BK and maybe did it intentionally because he felt like he needed to be knocked down a peg or two.

The professor I worked with had talked with me about us being a united front since students will often approach whomever they think will be the softer touch to beg for grades--they always went to him instead of me--so I think even if he'd been very unhappy with my performance, he would never have undermined me like that in front of students. He'd have torn into me in private, though.

I am pretty sure that's a pretty standard dynamic for many professor/TA relationships because otherwise the system breaks down, not only between the professor and TA but also between the students and the TA. I'm assuming this professor likely is very used to having TAs in his class, and it seems significant to me that he basically threw his TA to the wolves. MOO

But the system of grading should be clear to students.
Each grade ought to meet specific criteria.
And all this must be explained to students at the very beginning.

JMO

 

[Zella]

But the system of grading should be clear to students.
Each grade ought to meet specific criteria.
And all this must be explained to students at the very beginning.

JMO

Agreed, but there's always an element of subjectivity to grading if you're evaluating someone's writing, even with a clearly defined rubric.

It seems like he was getting pushback from grading assignments that may not have been essays but still involved shorter writing. Even with the same rubric, one person's A can be a B or a C to another grader, depending on how it's set up. MOO

 

[Dotta]

Agreed, but there's always an element of subjectivity to grading if you're evaluating someone's writing, even with a clearly defined rubric.

It seems like he was getting pushback from grading assignments that may not have been essays but still involved shorter writing. Even with the same rubric, one person's A can be a B or a C, depending on how it's set up. MOO

True.
But if the same work is graded differently by 2 different people (harsh/lenient) it is not fair to the student.

JMO

 

[Zella]

True.
But if the same work is graded differently by 2 different people (harsh/lenient) it is not fair to the student.

JMO

In my experience, the students aren't going to see a disparity between the professor and the TA's approach to grading because the TA is doing all the grading, though. Their comparison point is going to be what they see their friends getting in another course or their experience with other teachers.

I don't doubt that BK was overbearing with his grading and the revolt was deserved, but I doubt they were complaining because their professor had graded things differently than BK did. MOO

 

[Dotta]

In my experience, the students aren't going to see a disparity between the professor and the TA's approach to grading because the TA is doing all the grading, though. Their comparison point is going to be what they see their friends getting in another course or their experience with other teachers.

I don't doubt that BK was overbearing with his grading and the revolt was deserved, but I doubt they were complaining because their professor had graded things differently than BK did. MOO

I have this nasty feeling that grading was a "power trip" to him.
I pity these students.

JMO

 

[acutename]

That makes sense and I agree that it probably varies based on the field of study. IMO, making a first-year graduate student TA stand up in front of a class full of undergraduates to answer for their severe grading seems totally uncalled for in the social sciences or humanities. The professor probably could have saved it for a private conversation, and could have been as serious as they imagined the matter warranted. I definitely believe that med school and residencies / internships seem like a different ball game (and dare I say, one with higher stakes? I say this as a PhD in a humanities field).

I think for me it's just the combination of being a first year student and having little / no experience teaching undergrads that makes it seem inappropriate and potentially soul crushing. An issue like severe grading could be handled privately and the situation remedied, without the professor making the TA look and feel stupid. It would be a professional courtesy for someone who is just entering the profession and might make mistakes.

Apologies for belaboring the point, but I feel like it could end up being significant. All IMO.

Edit to say -- I also think it's worth mentioning that the student quoted could have left out important details. It could have been a less hostile situation where the prof simply said: many of you have questions about your grade, so I thought I'd let BK respond to some of your concerns. This would make sense to me, IMO.

If you listen to what this student has to say:

Bryan Kohberger's former student describes abrupt behavior change after Idaho college murders

The criminology student said Kohberger's grading style took an abrupt turn after the murders took place.

abc7chicago.com

he says it was a course that was pre-law, and the prof thought it would be an exercise to have some arguments and defenses- sort of a court like set up, so possibly more defensible (though I personally think BK might have found it to be awful)

 

[Zella]

I have this nasty feeling that grading was a "power trip" to him.
I pity these students.

JMO

I suspect so too! I doubt he expected to be challenged like that. And that's also why I find the professor's response interesting. I doubt this is the first time students have complained to him about a TA's grading, but I doubt he usually responds by having the TA have to face the students and defend their grading. My suspicion is he also thought BK was going overboard with it. MOO

 

[Zella]

If you listen to what this student has to say:

Bryan Kohberger's former student describes abrupt behavior change after Idaho college murders

The criminology student said Kohberger's grading style took an abrupt turn after the murders took place.

abc7chicago.com

he says it was a course that was pre-law, and the prof thought it would be an exercise to have some arguments and defenses- sort of a court like set up, so possibly more defensible (though I personally think BK might have found it to be awful)
e

Even with that explanation, it still strikes me as quite pointed at BK. It would be different if the TA agreed to this (I'm not sure that he did), but I'd think it would be more appropriate to have them debate something less contentious and personal than their grading and to not put the TA on the spot like that. Unless you wanted them put on the spot, which is increasingly what I am thinking. MOO

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617707039161217025

 

[Ccging]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617707039161217025

MAY require consent? <modsnip> I think the attorney needs to be removed from this case, IMO

 

[acutename]

Even with that explanation, it still strikes me as quite pointed at BK. It would be different if the TA agreed to this (I'm not sure that he did), but I'd think it would be more appropriate to have them debate something less contentious and personal than their grading and to not put the TA on the spot like that. Unless you wanted them put on the spot, which is increasingly what I am thinking. MOO

FWIW, I think the prof is a lawyer ... remember the socratic method where professors call on law students to expound upon legal concepts? Lawyers are supposed to be tough that way and not be too sensitive about winning or losing... just argue whatever point they need to argue. So the prof might not have seen this as a big deal but BK might definitely have experienced it as a major attack, IMO

 

[Zella]

FWIW, I think the prof is a lawyer ... remember the socratic method where professors call on law students to expound upon legal concepts? Lawyers are supposed to be tough that way and not be too sensitive about winning or losing... just argue whatever point they need to argue. So the prof might not have seen this as a big deal but BK might definitely have experienced it as a major attack, IMO

What's described in the link doesn't sound that neutral.

"He brought in Bryan, and he was like, 'alright, go at him,'" Stinchfield said. "And he had Bryan stand up. And a few people were on his side because they wanted to keep their high grades... but for the most part, it was like half of a 150-person class just asking these real critical questions."

"It wasn't like yelling or anything, but it was certainly conflict," Stinchfield added.

It also seems weird to me to drag a criminology TA rather than a law student into that and expect them to debate it like a lawyer. It would be great prep for a law student, for sure. But BK was not a law student. Maybe he arranged that with BK and BK was totally fine with it, but what is being described in that article doesn't seem like a neutral, no-feelings-hurt exercise in debate to me. It reads more like a rather pointed message at an overbearing TA, one that was intended to put him in his place and make a rather lasting impression when it comes to grades. MOO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Respectfully, while I've admitted that he left DNA there, the line of posts I was replying to in the post you quoted had nothing to do with DNA. We can't use DNA as the reason and then hang every single thing onto it. I mean, we can, but that isn't what I choose to do. There was DNA on the sheath. That doesn't mean he messaged the girls through Instagram, it doesn't mean he went to eat at MG, it doesn't mean he was stalking them at their workplace.

MOO.

I think it's taking the totality of the situation into account. The driving around over a period of months and phone pings, etc. becomes important once we have the DNA at the scene. I mean, if I drove around that neighborhood over and over although I lived in another town, I might be giving someone a ride to work or something. But BK has no REASON to be there. And once we have his DNA inside the crime scene, on a knife sheath, after a knife crime, then his travel around that neighborhood before that night, during the night, and the next day becomes evidence that he watching the house, stalking, etc. The video of him speeding off--consciousness of guilt. I'm sure there will be way more forensics. Remember, prosecutors may seem to present isolated bits of evidence but actually their job is to connect that stuff into a narrative that puts BK at the scene. With a knife. And killing people he's stalked for months.

Edited to add: I 100% agree about Instagram, MG or stalking at the workplace. We don't know.