ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[Bogbacal2]

'As methodical as BK thought he could be, he had no clue what he was getting into. Meaning, imo, he thought he could slip in and out, avoid contaminating his clothing/shoes at bare minimum so he would not get caught. Surely he did not expect a struggle (allegedly). The grotesque nature in which BK murdered these kids left behind “one of the worst crime scenes” per LE. Certainly his DNA would be found at the crime scene wouldn’t it? Sweat, saliva, possible cuts…. If XK, or any of the four were able to get in any kind of defense moves, his DNA would be found as well.
I believe that I am trying to make myself feel better and to believe that there is so much more evidence and this monster will pay for this heinous act.

 

[ktm44]

Also the thing about parking behind the house to jog at 4.04am seems a bit problematical but maybe that's just me.

There would be so much for cross examination, it would be a defence attorney’s nightmare but if it happened, he would likely be able to establish he had poor legal representation.

I find all these comments of what he could say frustrating because I don’t think people understand that in order for him to say, he will have to take the stand to say it.

 

[Boxer]

Also the thing about parking behind the house to jog at 4.04am seems a bit problematical but maybe that's just me.

It’s not believable.

 

[acutename]

In November 2022 she was declared competent. I can't find anything more recent that negates that.

I really don't see this as a path for BK. But am open to legal opinions on the matter.

his first extradition attorney said he would be "evaluated,"

Public defender for Moscow murder suspect calls for psych ...​

https://www.khq.com › news › idaho-murders › public-de...


Jan 2, 2023 — - The suspect in the murder of four University of Idaho students, 28-year-old Bryan Kohberger, will face an extradition hearing on Tuesday, Jan.

so that idea has always been on the table for the defense.... not sure where it gets them overall

 

[Cool Cats]

It’s not believable.

In regards to BK parking behind the house to jog at 4.04am, I agree, not believable.

No defense attorney in their right mind would place their client at the scene of the crime on the night of 4 murders.

Might as well quit practicing and recuse yourself.

 

[jepop]

Yes, it is speculation BK didn't get the internship he applied for with Pullman PD, which is why I didn't include a link and ended the post with "MOO". It hasn't been confirmed by LE in MSM whether he was accepted or rejected. I'm also speculating their decision was put on hold if they followed up with his professors to vet him and they weren't ready or willing to recommend him as a good candidate for either of the two three-year intern positions he applied for:

"It is not clear whether Mr Kohberger was offered a position with the department. The Independent has reached out to the department for comment.

The internship had been previously mentioned by law enforcement in the affidavit for Mr Kohberger’s arrest, released on 5 January. It stated that Mr Kohberger had written in an essay that “he had interest in assisting rural law enforcement agencies with how to better collect and analyze technological data in public safety operations.”

According to WSU’s website, the university offers two of the three-year positions in collaboration with the department of criminal justice and criminology and the cities of Pullman and Pasco.

“The purpose of these positions is to support each agency through data management and analysis, and to position them for success when they seek external funding,” according to the page."

Bryan Kohberger was interviewed by police chief for internship months before murders

I'm pretty sure the interview or exchange of emails in April between BK and someone from Pullman PD was for an assistantship position.

Non paywalled NYT article via twitter link.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617238440986431489

.

On the other hand, the Internship was applied for in the fall of 2022 per PCA.

PCA p11 BBM

"Based on information provided on the WSU website, Kohberger is currently a Ph.DStudent in Criminology at Washington State University.Fursuant to records provided by a member of the interview panel for Pullm Police Departnent we leamed that Kohberger's past education included undergnduate
degrees in psychology and cloud-based forensics. These records also showed Kohberger wrote an essay when he applied for an intemship with the Pullrnan Police Departnent in the fall of 2022. Kohberger wrote in his essay he had interest in assistitng rural law enforcement agencies with how to better collect and analyze technologicaldata in public safety operations. Kohberger also posted a Reddit survey..."

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - 122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf

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These were two different applications and two different positions, an Assistantship and an Internship. MOO

I'm not sure, but perhaps the source you cite has confused them in the write up? AFAIA there has been no statement made by Pullman PD in regard to the outcome of either application.

EBM: typo, replaced Moscow PD with Pullman PD
ETA: MOO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

DBM

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I agree. I would add to that I think we all have our "go to" people we are close to who we would instinctually reach out to in moments of distress, for comfort, to help us process what we're experiencing, and to use as a sounding board to help us decide whether and what we should do next.

I think this is why DM reached out to her housemates and friends before thinking of calling 911, as she really was not sure what may have been going on in the early hours of that day, based on what she thought she heard and saw even if she was scared by it and went into "frozen shock phase".

One scenario that fits, IMO, is:

• her housemates had someone over late (Kaylee & Maddie had been calling Kaylee's ex-bf Jack many times beforehand, so if he answered their calls and came over and brought a male friend with him ("Jack's friend"), that would fit with her hearing (she thought) Kaylee saying "someone is here", as would the DD delivery)
• they were playing around (she heard what she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog)
• someone accidentally was hurt during the playing around (she heard crying and a male voice saying "it's okay, I'm going to help you")
• then when all is quiet, she sees a male she doesn't know (Jack's friend?) who is wearing a mask (which is less startling I think since Covid than it would have been before) walk past

Under such as scenario, it wouldn't seem like an emergency, even if on some level something about it all was shocking to her.

Although a call to 911 can bring immediate action from LE (depending on your location, how busy they are, and what you tell the operator who answers the call), you have to honestly believe that you are a witness to an emergency. Also, it's very much discouraged and is a punishable offense to call 911 in a non emergency situation.

So the onus was totally on her to decide if what she heard and saw early that morning constituted an emergency, and she may have been aware that she could get in trouble for calling 911 if it wasn't an emergency, and decided to wait it out until she could bounce things off a friend and have them assist her.

All this is MOO, including MOO that what DM did or didn't do is irrelevant to the survival of the victims and the murders and solving them.

Per 911.gov:

"While you may know that you should call 911 in an emergency, you may not be sure of when you should not call 911. Too often, requests to 911 do not involve a true emergency, which overloads the 911 system with non-emergency calls. Here are some answers to common questions Americans have about 911."

FAQ About Calling 911

Per Idaho law:

"TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 67
COMMUNICATIONS SECURITY
18-6711A. FALSE ALARMS — COMPLAINTS — REPORTS — PENALTIES — CIVIL DAMAGES. (a) Any person calling the number "911" for the purpose of making a false alarm or complaint and reporting false information which could or does result in the emergency response of any firefighting, police, medical or other emergency services shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be sentenced to a fine of not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or to a term of not to exceed one (1) year in the county jail, or to both such fine and imprisonment."

Section 18-6711A – Idaho State Legislature.

Agree 100%.

 

[jepop]

You are correct that they seem like perhaps two different positions, but both were with Pullman PD, not Moscow PD.

Thanks. Have edited, was a confusion info overload typo!

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I'm willing to bet money that DM would not be fined for a bogus 911. LE rolls on calls like "there is a strange man, dressed in black wearing a mask in my house".

It's useful to think like a college kid living with 3-4 other college kids on a weekend night when one or more boyfriends might be sleeping over. It would require the college kid to know something bad was going on and not just the roommates being drunk or rowdy or inviting someone she doesn't know over to the house at 4 am. If there was no real threat and the police show up, everyone would be mad at her, big time. The real miracle is that she didn't show up to find out what was going on or ask the others who the guy in black was. Her self preservation instincts were 100% right; her cognitive decision was probably more based on how the household operated than on what hindsight says "should" have happened.

 

[Spec-u-lator]

Douglas is very quotable, but he loves a generalisation.

Take Kemper, a serial killer who he interviewed at length, who when he was 'done' went on the run, expecting an enormous manhunt to be chasing him. They weren't. He phoned police and confessed, to get it over with. They thought he was making it up, and told him to call back later. He called AGAIN and asked to speak directly to a cop he knew, and finally got traction. He confessed not only to the murder of his mother, but to multiple other killings, without being pressured.

Take List, a mass murderer who planned everything down to the minute, even stopping the newspaper delivery, and as a result, wasn't caught for almost two decades, and probably would never have been if it wasn't for a reconstruction by Bender and a massive media push on America's Most Wanted.

I could go on.

That said, I agree with you and think BK, if the perpetrator of this crime, didn't want or expect to get caught. I think he thought he was too smart.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Douglas had nothing to do with those things though. Kemper was in prison already, and List was a family annihilator like Chris Watts, only a bit smarter, and about the same in regards to being a nerdy loser. Douglas had no involvement in that one as well either, at least to my recollection.

Not everyone fits into a perfect mold, which is why phrases like “disorganized” and “organized,” really aren’t used anymore. It’s a spectrum.

But he helped pioneer this stuff, which is an accomplishment in and of itself, even if more insight has been gathered, and thinking has changed.

I'm not denying his achievements! I've read all his books, too. His, and the others, Hazelwood, etc.etc.

I just mean that humans like trying to fit things into neat boxes, but human behaviour doesn't fit neatly into boxes. We can get rough ideas for how certain kinds of people will behave some of the time, but to say 'serial killers do this' is a blanket statement. It sounds good, but it doesn't reflect reality, and he's a man who's studied enough serious offenders to know that that isn't a fact, it's a sound bite.

It's from a book written for readers of true crime. It's entertainment. If he said it in an academic paper, he'd be asked to 'cite his source' pretty sharpish, and he wouldn't be able to, because it's a blanket statement. A generalisation. That's all I meant.

MOO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

The ‘smart” criminal was a dumb*zz and left his dna on the sheath. I can’t see that being explained away.

Yeah, that seems obvious to me.

 

[gliving]

 

[Helechawagirl]

There's no evidence that he's a serial killer though.

So far, he seems like more of a match to a mass murderer.

 

[jepop]

And how his DNA got on a knife sheath and why he drove in a roundabout way back to Pullman then back to 1122 King Road on Sunday morning.

The list is rather large of things he'd have to explain. And even if he tries another excuse for the sheath ("I went jogging but my knife was stolen a month before") the jury is gonna roll its collective eyes.

"I went jogging for 19 minutes."

[snipped for focus]

BBM: Actually could be even less given (per PCA) he entered the area at c.4.04am then faffs around before parking (I estimate 2-3 minutes). That's around 13 minutes, a quick jog indeed. IMO

EBM: Deleted Sentences above quote box

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Idaho Murders Update: Kohberger Used 'Staging 101' To Derail Investigation, Expert Suggests​

International Business Times
Kent Masing
02/08/2023

"A criminal profiling expert suggested that Bryan Kohberger, the suspect in slaughtering four University of Idaho students, might have attempted to mislead investigators in their search for the killer. ... [...] ...

"This is staging 101," Kelly said. "They're going to look at this, and they're going to think it's a military guy that did this – some guy with some kind of training who lives up the road.""

Idaho Murders Update: Kohberger Used 'Staging 101' To Derail Investigation, Expert Suggests

 

[Nova]

Quick question here—since he was reportedly fired as a TA, does that also mean he would have been completely severed from the PhD program? Or would he have been able to continue his studies ( with private payment) ?
( in the event he wasn’t arrested for quadruple homicide)

Obviously in his case this is a moot point, but curious how that works.

Where I studied and taught, matriculation and TAship were two, different things. Now being expelled would end one's job as a TA, obviously, but losing your TAship would not necessarily cause expulsion (depending on the severity of the offense that caused the termination).

I do think it's quite possible that, as an out-of-state student, BK would have found tuition prohibitively expensive without a TAship. Again, I do not have inside knowledge of WSU, but I have been both a TA and a prof at another uni in the same athletic conference.

 

[Nova]

I've seen HR do desperate things. We have a standing bulletin in our HR section that's basically "Safety First" and has a number of implausible (to me) suggestions about how to handle errant students or employees.

I've also seen faculty do desperate things when frightened. So it could be one or another. We're now hearing that BK had an "altercation" (which implies something physical - in which one person feels they need to flee; it could be just yelling or it could be advancing on someone - I've seen students grab profs by the necktie and have twice had to exit my classroom to help out; I've also seen a prof shoved to the ground and I know a prof who smacked his secretary several times; I also know several profs who have assaulted other profs and 2 who have assaulted students). I've been on college committees regarding these issues for, let's see, 30 years now?

I've also seen profs try to fight their tenure decisions, but at the places I've worked, not one has been successful

The "group model" of working things out is taught in sociology and psychology. It's supposed to provide a "safe space" for all involved to try and solve an issue with one person without invoking legal or HR sanctions. It never works, IMO. What is supposed to happen, of course, is that the person who is complained about apologizes profusely and promises to change. I won't say which disciplines I've seen this happen in, but let's just say "never in social science." I just watched a professor in a particular discipline try something a bit similar (not with her students, with her colleagues) and it was a disaster. I've heard she's also done this with her students, though, so I don't know what to say about her learning curve. And as an aside, now that I'm reflecting, I've never seen a man do this in class, it's always someone who is very proud of their "people skills." This prof I'm referencing says things like that out loud, "I'm a people person; I have people skills."

I would never say that. I'm trying to think if I've ever had a student so difficult (I have had a crazy stalker but when I realized it was so, I went through other channels to deal with it - it was scary and difficult, especially when I realized she had followed me home and knew where I lived). Of course, BK's situation involved student complaints (we no longer have TA's for the type of class I teach, but I can't imagine trying to do a group intervention - which is what the prof attempted to do - in a situation where I, myself, was one of the active players and, basically, in charge of the situation).

(I've also seen students throw things, shove over podiums, purposefully flip over desks on the way out, knock over rows of books, throw all collected papers onto the floor, etc but now that I think about it, it's been really infrequent/non-existent in the last decade or so - and our student discipline committee is much less active, convening less than once a year on average). I've also had guns in the classroom, knives, and police batons.

ALL IMO only.

Damn, but you teach at a rough school! You must be very brave!

I never had an issue with students. It probably helps to be a 6'3" man.

 

[Nova]

But, that's just how the event has been characterized in media - and especially in this forum. We don't know what happened. For all we know, BK himself asked for this opportunity and agreed to it....

Thank you for sharing your experiences, which are far more extensive than mine.

Your point that BK may have agreed to the class discussion of his grading is a good one.

I've certainly seen professors go off on a student in a seminar, where everyone knew one another. I can think of at least two profs who had a penchant for reducing female students to tears. They were both civil to me, a male.

But I think what some of us find shocking is that the "intervention" took place in a group of 150+ students and (maybe) a team of TAs. I really can't imagine anything productive coming out of a confrontation in that big a crowd.