ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

[Perch]

I think people are way over thinking the knife. It takes no skill to stab four people with a knife like this, just brute strength and no conscience. Field dressing animals, butchering, etc. is precise. Also, these types of knives are very common and can be purchased anywhere from online to your local sporting goods store or pawn shop. I believe the two sadistic teens who killed Cassie Jo Stoddart in what they dubbed The Scream Murders had an older friend purchase similar knives from a pawn shop to commit their crime.

That was 2 on one in an empty house. Lots of time. It looks to be the speed and kill efficiency plus 1 attacking 4 that makes it different

 

[ACG2x]

Hello i am new, and with the information that both girls were frantically calling a person after arriving home leads me to believe that someone was after that person using them to get to him. Some reports say that some of the stab wounds could have been torturous? ( like call him or you will pay) . And i think the couple could have already been killed before they got home ( call to family said they were home 12 pm and hanging out - not confirmed source) so girls get home to horror show and sadly 4 beautiful lives are lost - my thoughts so sad

First, welcome! Glad to have you here .

Regarding the calls, I don't necessarily think they were 'frantic'. I realize there were many of them in short succession, however remember the food truck operator said that KG seemed intoxicated or at least tipsy because she slurred her words trying to order the carbonara. She and MM were confirmed to be at a local bar for most of the evening so it's a pretty reasonable assumption they consumed alcohol.

Where I'm going with this is that when you're tipsy, you do stuff repeatedly like calling someone as they did. Another poster above mentioned that perhaps they were both trying to call Jack to tell him a story about the night or just mess with him because they knew him and were a little drunk. Like haha we're awake so now you are too.

I still think if either KG or MM thought something was seriously wrong or cause for alarm, they would've called 911, not Jack.

 

[late1]

The coroner said yesterday that the autopsies showed no signs of sexual assaults

This is true, but IMO it could still be the motivating factor for an intruder, especially considering there was no robbery.

 

[nocturnes]

In my observation, yes, drug disputes are rarely overkills. This doesn’t feel like a business dispute. I query what knowledge I have and I ask myself, as a reasonably intensive reader and student of history: can I remember an American multiple murder that (a) wasn’t DV and (b) wasn’t mass random shooting and (c) wasn’t sexually motivated? I can’t, personally. This meets a and b. My opinion is that it likely violates c.

Coroner stated the autopsies showed no signs of sexual assault

 

[Laura930]

Autopsy Shows Brutal and ‘Personal’ Murders of 4 Slain University of Idaho Students, Possible Defense Wounds

Autopsies are complete in connection with four University of Idaho students found deceased Sunday in a rented home near the Moscow campus. According to the Moscow-Pullman Daily News, Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt said the victims were stabbed to death in a “personal” attack carried out by a...

www.crimeonline.com

Thanks for the article! Did you see where the coroner said “I don’t think I’ve had another death by stabbing,” she added.” They need to bring in a coroner with more experience if she has never done an autopsy on a stabbing victim. The defense will have a field day with her during trial.

Also someone needs to tell her to keep quiet!!

 

[EM152]

New, first post. I've read through all posts since #1. I'm wondering if perhaps the two roommates on the ground level that survived got up Sunday morning, dressed and together went out through the ground floor door for brunch, meet up with some friends, etc, without going up to the second floor. So they were totally unaware of what had happened. Then they came home, went inside from the ground floor, and headed up to the second floor and discovered Ethan on the floor, and in shock called 911.

 

[William Goat]

I definitely agree with the brute strength/no conscience. Field dressing and butchering are precise because one's targets are inert; not necessarily so four humans, in bed at the time or not.

I would be at least mildly surprised if the killings did not involve methamphetamines.

Wouldn't shock me it was someone manic on meth.

I believe it was premeditated targeted murder. I also think the killer was more than likely was targeting M or K, or both. I don't think the killer went in the house expecting to kill 4 people though.

 

[tokyorose]

@annpats and @UltraViolet4545 - Could be both, in a sense. Could be a person at least one of the victims was aware of, but he wasn’t really known. The awareness of acquaintance. The awareness that someone is in the outer rings of a friendship circle is ominous, is staring too much, is emitting the potential energy of a problem arising. I suspect a lot of women know what I mean with this. Curious. This thread might tell me. Any women here know what I mean?

Absolutely I know. I myself was stalked in college many many moons ago and it was exactly this type of situation.

 

[Ed Teach]

A thought just occurred to me and I don't think it has been mentioned before. Perhaps Ethan was the target and the girls were collateral damage.

 

[caradana]

Absolutely I know. I myself was stalked in college many many moons ago and it was exactly this type of situation.

So sorry that you had that experience! You’re not alone, at all. It’s challenging to describe linguistically (esp to big alpha guys) but I suspect a shocking number of women like us share this intense experience.

 

[late1]

I STRONGLY disagree with this analysis.

Brute strength is required, as is lack of conscience, for sure.

But I imagine this also requiring a considerable amount of skill to definitively kill 4 people with a knife.

How many times have you tried to do something (for which you lacked skill) 4 times and failed at least one of those times?

What happened, according to reports, is just not a "skill" anyone would learn or practice, ever. Even military training doesn't include stabbing sleeping people. There is no hunting or fishing activity that resembles the stabbing of sleeping people.

 

[BeSweets]

New, first post. I've read through all posts since #1. I'm wondering if perhaps the two roommates on the ground level that survived got up Sunday morning, dressed and together went out through the ground floor door for brunch, meet up with some friends, etc, without going up to the second floor. So they were totally unaware of what had happened. Then they came home, went inside from the ground floor, and headed up to the second floor and discovered Ethan on the floor, and in shock called 911.

Welcome
Good theory.
If you search for the media link you’ll find the compiled timeline (if you haven’t seen it) we know of right now — which includes nothing on them
Happy sleuthing!

 

[flippyflappy]

A thought just occurred to me and I don't think it has been mentioned before. Perhaps Ethan was the target and the girls were collateral damage.

I've been wondering alone this line of thinking too. That maybe it was more a Xana and Ethan target, akin to the "lover's lane" type murders. Jealousy over "young love", rage at happy "young" people having something the killer perceived they deserved,but didn't have.

MOO

 

[tokyorose]

I think these girls are smart and savvy enough that if they thought there was a real danger in the house at 2:30am, they would have called 911 and not a boyfriend. I think instead after a big night out K wanted to call her boyfriend. When he didn't answer, she asked her friend to call him to see if he was ignoring her. So M called him too. They may at that point have decided to just go to bed not knowing what was about to happen.

This exact scene plays out among 18-25 year old women every night. I confess to having been the desperate dialer, the reassuring best friend, and even the recipient at various points in college and young adulthood. I don't see any other reason why anyone would call him over an extended period of time. They would have had plenty of time to call 911 even to do a hang-up triggering a welfare check during the first minute if they knew something was wrong.

Unfortunately it leads me to think they were ambushed after 3am.

So is it possible that J is the person that called 911? after finding 7 missed calls on his phone and wondering what was up?

 

[Rumination1]

What freaks me is all those times in my youth this could have happened to me or my friends…. Drunken food ordering , being watched going into our home , having guys we don’t like hang around us. Not to mention carelessness with locks or personal safety. Poor kids. Wrong person they were either attracting the attention of or randomly broke in .

Pity the poor cops sorting this mess. Also why fbi and not Idaho cops ?

 

[uburoi1]

In killing four humans with a knife in this circumstance, I believe rage to be the most bottom-line of components.

 

[KonaHonu]

I STRONGLY disagree with this analysis.

Brute strength is required, as is lack of conscience, for sure.

But I imagine this also requiring a considerable amount of skill to definitively kill 4 people with a knife.

How many times have you tried to do something (for which you lacked skill) 4 times and failed at least one of those times?

Good points. But stabbing is an inexact science. Perforate the aorta, vena cava, or pulmonary artery or vein and someone would probably lose conscientiousness in 15 seconds or less. Miss major organs and a person could be in shock but take a while to bleed out.

I'm finding it very hard to believe that none of them screamed. I understand that sometimes perople can't for whatever reason. But in this case 4 people did not seem to make much sound.

 

[BeSweets]

In killing four humans with a knife in this circumstance, I believe rage to be the most bottom-line of components.

Agreed, with rage comes adrenaline

 

[Stratford258]

Exactly - the only way someone could have "practiced" this is by having killed someone before.

Is it really likely that killing 4 people in a home is someone's 1st murder??? Doubt it.

 

[saltlakerino]

New, first post. I've read through all posts since #1. I'm wondering if perhaps the two roommates on the ground level that survived got up Sunday morning, dressed and together went out through the ground floor door for brunch, meet up with some friends, etc, without going up to the second floor. So they were totally unaware of what had happened. Then they came home, went inside from the ground floor, and headed up to the second floor and discovered Ethan on the floor, and in shock called 911.

News have reported that someone who *did not live in the house* was the person who called 911. Source