ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

[avalonisland]

The killer(s) almost had to have been well-prepared or trained on how to carry this out in the middle of the night, lurking inside or out while figuring out the right time to sneak in and around with most likely very little light in the house, creeping up and down at least one flight of stairs and room by room as they ambushed 4 innocent lives without making a sound that would wake everyone up. Even though it's been suggested that the crime scene was very sloppy, the perp(s) appear to have been highly sophisticated imo

I agree with you. 5 roommates at home in which all 3 floors occupied with roommate(s), and the athletic boyfriend on the 2nd floor. Dog on one of the floors. The killer had multiple escape opps on 2nd floor (sliding glass door and many windows). Seems to me like killer was a "welcomed" guest at one time and knew the pattern of roommates weekend routine and layout of entire 3 floor house. Not sure what floor laundry room was on but it contains a shower and sink along with washer and dryer. Perhaps the laundry room was used by killer to "clean self up" before exiting house?

 

[Angelwatch]

I do believe it’s plausible that the killer locked the bedroom door at least on the 2nd floor as he left.

That is what happened in the Jodi Arias murder, I believe.

 

[sunflowermomma]

is it possible that the perpetrator escaped out the third floor? Attacked E and X on the second floor, K and M made their calls because they heard something, perpetrator continued up to the third floor?

The hillside continues up a bit behind the house and to the left, and the balcony off the third floor - in this picture from one victim's Instagram shows how the balcony wraps around and gets pretty close to the driveway at the back. This is pretty common for decks in this area and dropping down a few feet on to cushy pine needles would be fast and easy.

 

[SteveP]

I agree with you. 5 roommates at home in which all 3 floors occupied with roommates and the athletic boyfriend on the 2nd floor. Dog on one of the floors. The killer had multiple escape opps on 2nd floor (sliding glass door and many windows). Seems to me like killer was a "welcomed" guest at one time and knew the pattern of roommates weekend routine and layout of entire 3 floor house. Not sure what floor laundry room was on but it contains a shower and sink along with washer and dryer. Perhaps the laundry room was used by killer to "clean self up" before exiting house?

IIRC, from the floor plans that we have seen, the laundry room is on the first floor, where the two surviving roomates' bedrooms are. I do not think the killer could have spent time cleaning up on that level, without being heard by at least one of the roommates, and there has been at least some unconfirmed speculation that perhaps that level could have been locked off from the upper floors. I really believe that once the killing was over, the assailant probably got out and away from the house as quickly as possible. Why succeed in the killings you set out to do, only to risk getting caught hanging around after the fact. JMO

 

[MiamiSolver]

I know that they think the two surviving room mates got home at about 1 . They think kaylee and Madison got home around 1:45 . Kaylee calls J 6 times from 2:26 -2:44 and Madison then calls J from 2:44 -2:52 three times . Kaylee again Calls J one final time at 2:52. The murders are suspected to have occurred between 2 am and 5 am and the police call was made at 11:58 am from one of the surviving roommates phone .

I believe they’ve placed the timeline between 3-4am, after the phone calls.

 

[layer]

Would they already have dna results back from under fingernails etc ??

They could; Rapid DNA tests can be run in as little as 90 minutes these days, and the FBI would have access to the best equipment.

 

[bitethehand]

I find this very disconcerting. It seems the perpetrator entered the house when all were asleep (or lay in wait), and attacked them in succession. Two sets of victims on two different floors. This seems like a deliberate and organized attack based on the info we have. This is not the action of a jealous wannabe bf or an angry person seeking revenge or trying to get even. These are the actions of a psychopath. I think this may be why the FBI jumped on this case so quickly. Nothing in this case so far reads like they were murdered by someone they knew.

JMO. MOO. IMO

 

[margarita25]

Urgent mapping request @otto , @ClaireNC, or whoever is available right now.

Can someone please post a screenshot of three map points, if not already posted, if so please bring forward:

Map showing:

1. House

2. Buddy’s house location.

3. Where buddy was found.


Thank you.

 

[Trouble1321075]

My confidence is not very high right now. It's been a week and they have not named a suspect yet. The killer could of already destroyed any forensic evidence linking him to the crime.

 

[Star_crossed]

I believe they’ve placed the timeline between 3-4am, after the phone calls.

They initially did and then they changed it to 2-5 am

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Idaho student murders: Former officers say police 'jumped the gun' with initial 'targeted' attack statement

Two former detectives with the LAPD and NYPD weigh in on information police have released regarding the murders of four University of Idaho students.

uk.news.yahoo.com

Two former detectives say the Moscow Police Department's decision to call the Nov. 13 quadruple homicide near the University of Idaho an "isolated, targeted attack" may have been premature.

"I think the police definitely jumped the gun with that statement," former New York City Police Department Det. Herman Weisberg told Fox News Digital. "You have to have a suspect or a reason to say that. They have a murder mystery here. No forced entry, which could have led them to believe it was a crime of passion or someone who knew them."

Former Los Angeles Police Department Det. Mark Fuhrman similarly said MPD's statement saying the attack was "isolated" and "targeted" struck him as odd, especially given the fact that the statement was made before the coroner released preliminary autopsy results for the four victims.

"The ‘targeted attack,’ even if that is true, it just doesn't make sense," Fuhurman said. "In my 20 years in the LAPD, I have never heard anything like that. You can't make that determination that quick. "…To have them say this was an isolated, targeted attack, they could be 100% right, but they have to have something that made them say that."

The former LAPD detective speculated that the perpetrator may have left a note or message of some sort in the house — some indication that the attack was, in fact, isolated and targeted before the autopsies were completed.

 

[BeSweets]

***UPDATED NOV 17, NEW INFO IN RED***

VICTIMS:
EC = Ethan Chapin [IG / FB], a 20-year-old from Conway, Washington [1]; freshman, member of Sigma Chi fraternity majoring in recreation, sport and tourism management in the College of Education, Health and Human Sciences. [7]; school indicates hometown was Mount Vernon, WA [9]; one of triplets that all attended UofI[36]; staying overnight with his girlfriend XK [39] "lived with" XK according to XK's family [56]
FAMILY INTERVIEW: NOV 15

XK = Xana Kernodle [IG / TikTok / FB], 20, from Avondale, Arizona [1]; junior from Post Falls majoring in marketing in the College of Business and Economics, member of Pi Beta Phi sorority [7]; dating EC, worked as server at Mad Greek restaurant [36]

MM = Madison Mogen [IG / TikTok / FB], a 21-year-old from Coeur d'Alene, Idaho [1]; senior majoring in marketing in the College of Business and Economics, member of the Pi Beta Phi sorority [7]; worked as server at Mad Greek restaurant [36]; planned to move to Boise after graduation in spring [53]

KG = Kaylee Goncalves [IG / TikTok / FB], 21, from Rathdrum, Idaho [1]; senior majoring in general studies in the College of Letters, Arts and Social Sciences, member of the Alpha Phi sorority [7]; middle of five children, owner of a dog named Murphy [31], was going to start a new tech job in TX in Jan [36]; had recently purchased a 2016 Range Rover; planned to travel to Europe next year [53]
FAMILY INTERVIEW: NOV 15 | NOV 16

ZILLOW DESCRIPTION/PICS OF RESIDENCE
RESIDENCE PICS FROM MEDIA:
View attachment 380501
View attachment 380502


TIMELINE

~LATE 2021 ("about a year, give or take")
EC and XK begin relationship [56]

AUG 16
MM posts a "meet the roommates" image on IG [12]

AUG 22
MM posts a "first day of school" image on IG [11]

SEP 12
POSSIBLY UNRELATED: man threatened students on UofI campus with a knife [35]; students were walking to Greek Row, non-student flashed a knife to threaten students, turned self into law enforcement; cannot say whether it is connected [47]

OCT 29
XK's final IG post, wishing EC a happy birthday [13]

F NOV 11

• MM's final IG post [10]
• KG's final texts with her sister [31]

Sa NOV 12

• KG's final IG post w roommates [15]
• EC attends a dance at his sister's sorority as her date; his other triplet brother went with his sister's roommate [53]
• PM - neighbors hear loud music from somewhere "in the neighborhood"; did NOT hear screaming or gunshots [33]
• PM - neighbors report "hearing noise from the house Saturday evening but said it sounded like a party rather than an altercation." [40]; Rumor debunked: Moscow PD states there is no indication of party at the residence [47]
• ~12PM - XK last contact with family [56]

Su NOV 13 - DEATH OF VICTIMS, BODIES DISCOVERED
day 1 of investigation at residence

• [TIME?] - MM & KG took Uber to get food [43@0:45]
• 1:33AM - 1:53AM [41] - MM & KG seen on Twitch video from Grub Truck food truck [38], where they order pasta; manager states they were "slightly intoxicated" [41] - VIDEO from Gray Hughes Investigates
• after 1:45AM - EC & XK arrived home from a party; MM & KG arrived home from a bar [47]; MM & KG took Uber home, let dog out, locked house up [43@0:45]
• ISP stated (cf Nov 17) that they believe suspect came in through sliding glass door [55]
• 3AM-4AM - Estimated time of death [9]
• 11:58AM [20] - LE respond to "a report of an unconscious person" (later verified to be one of the deceased [30]); according to EC's mother, bodies were found by "a friend" [32] who does not live in the house [39]; fire and EMS also on scene but did not go into residence [1]; First responders "discovered four individuals who were deceased" [20] - EC was found on floor of second level [36]; officers describe a bloody crime scene, "especially on upper floors of the house" [37]
• ~12PM - coroner informed of 4 homicides [45@0:15]
• 2:16 PM - UofI FB post advises students to shelter in place due to investigation of homicide on King St [3]
• 2:51 PM - UofI FB post lifts shelter-in-place, states that LE are still investigating death of 4 people but do not believe there is an active threat [4]
• ~5PM - 5:30PM - coroner arrives on scene [45@0:30]
• 5:25PM - UofI FB post states that LE is still investigating, but there is no ongoing threat [5]
• 9:17 PM - University president posts on FB about deaths, cancels class for M Nov 14, offers counseling resources [6]
• PM - neighbors state they saw police, "group of women crying while draped in emergency blankets" [33]

M NOV 14 - DECLARED A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION
day 2 of investigation at residence

• online and in-person classes at University canceled [1]
  
  
• [TIME?] LE questioned manager of Moscow Building Supply about whether they carry KA-BAR knives, which they do not [44]
• 12:50 PM - MSM reports that 4 students found dead near campus [1]
• 12:21 PM - UofI FB posts identities of victims [7], states "Moscow police do not believe there is an ongoing community risk based on information gathered during the preliminary investigation" [8]
• 1:31 PM - search dogs at scene [29]
• 1:49 PM - MSM reports that it is being treated as homicide investigation [2]
• PM - Rumor debunked: LE verifies that none of the deceased students are believed to be responsible for the deaths. [9], Rumor debunked: county coroner verifies it was NOT a murder-suicide [17]
• 5:56PM - Mayor refuses to confirm NYT's "crime of passion" description [21], states it is one possibility [32]
• PM - media tries to canvas neighbors, who decline to make a comment, "most" stating that they didn't really know the victims; state that police had previously canvassed neighborhood as well [32]

Tu NOV 15 - PRELIMINARY CAUSE OF DEATH RELEASED: STABBING
day 3 of investigation at residence

• Moscow PD release statement - "Evidence indicates that this was a targeted attack." [16]
• Some students, feeling unsafe, leave early for Thanksgiving break [18]
• Coroner calls the scene "gruesome" [34] (comment possibly taken out of context[see 45@3:45]); does not believe toxicology report will be relevant [45@3:00]; did not know timeframe of death [45@3:00]; declines to comment on where bodies were found [45@4:20]
• DailyMail (TABLOID) posts image they claim is blood "oozing" out of residence; state that scene was "the worst [police] had ever seen; "there was blood everywhere;" "have never seen anything like this"; trash taken to garbage depot [36]
• KG's family interview states that door had a keypad code [42@1:45]
  
  
• 8:36AM - vigil postponed until after Thanksgiving [28] - cf W Nov 16
• 11:24AM - LE press release states they are still searching for "an edged weapon such as a knife" that was used in attack [27]
• 2:07PM - LE stop garbage truck from leaving residence, as they have not recovered weapon [26]
• 2:40PM - bodies in Spokane County, autopsies to take place on Wed; preliminary findings show stabbing as cause of death; "a lot of blood;" [25] Rumor debunked: no indication of substance use [25]
• 4:25PM - confirmed that FBI is working with local LE [19]
• 6:36PM - county prosecutor states there is a sealed warrant issued at residence; "a handful of other warrants" in the works [24]
• 7:11PM - Families of MM & KG release statement calling for justice [23]

W NOV 16 - PRESS CONFERENCE
day 4 of investigation at residence

• AM - Video shared online of MM & KG at Grub Truck food truck [38] - cf Su NOV 13
• Parents speak out against LE & school for "lack of information [40]
• Manager of Moscow Building Supply states that LE questioned them "more than once" about whether they carry KA-BAR knives, including on M Nov 14; he states they do not [44] - cf M NOV 14
  
  
• 3:30PM - news conference planned by ISP & Moscow PD [22] - transcribed by @Allabouttrial HERE
  
  • Moscow PD chief speaks
    
    • victims arrived home after 1:45 AM from party (EC & XK) and bar (MM & KG) [47] - cf Su Nov 13
    • no sign of forced entry - no damage to anything; door was open when LE arrived [47]
    • autopsies taking place today [47]
    • reviewing crime scene evidence, video, etc [47]
    • do not have a suspect, weapon, or clothing of suspect at this time - cannot say there is no threat to community [47]
    • Rumor debunked: no indication of party at the residence [47] - cf Sa Nov 12
    • there were ("we believe 2") other people (roommates) home at the time of the attack; was not a hostage situation and were not injured; they were present at residence when LE arrived; declines to comment on what they have stated [47]
    • declines to comment on who the 911 caller was [47]
    • has not identified anything missing/stolen from the residence [47]
    • declines to comment on location of bodies within the residence [47]
    • Sep 12 incident - students were walking to Greek Row, non-student flashed a knife to threaten students, turned self into law enforcement; cannot say whether it is connected [47] - cf Sep 12
• 5PM - vigil held in Coeur d' Alene, ID [46]
• 5PM - vigil planned on University's Administration Lawn [9] - vigil postponed as of T NOV 15 [28] rescheduled to NOV 30 [34]

TH NOV 17 - AUTOPSY PERFORMED & CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH CONFIRMED
day 5 of investigation at residence

• Rumor debunked: KTVB reporter verifies that there have been no record of KG calling police between Jan1-Nov13 [48]
• ISP patrolling near Moscow schools Th & Fri; "no need to be alarmed" [49]
• increased LE activity noted at residence; increased number of tips coming in [50]; LE confirms they are canvassing area for fixed-blade weapon purchases [48]
• phones of victims still being held as evidence [53]
• KG's dog Murphy has been returned to secondary owner [54]
• ISP stated that they believe suspect came in through sliding glass door [55] - cf Su Nov 13
  
  
• [TIME?] autopsies completed and bodies released to victims' families [51]
• PM - coroner's report released confirming official cause of death: homicide-murder / manner of death: stabbing with "large knife"; DNA samples (including those on "bedding") still being tested; some wounds may have been defensive [52] - cf [56 & 57]
• PM - family states XK had "bruises, torn by the knife" that would indicate that she fought back [56] - cf [52 & 57]
• PM - other source cites same coroner stating that "They have not yet determined whether there were defensive wounds"; each victim stabbed multiple times; no indication of sexual assault [57] - cf [52 & 56]

SOURCES:
[1] 4 University of Idaho students found dead near campus - 6ABC - Nov 14
[2] Four university students found dead near campus - MirrorUK - Nov 14
[3] UofI FB - Nov 13
[4] UofI FB - Nov 13
[5] UofI FB - Nov 13
[6] UofI FB - Nov 13
[7] UofI FB - Nov 14
[8] UofI FB - Nov 14
[9] 4 Slain University of Idaho students are victims - ElkoDaily - Nov 14
[10] MM Instagram - Nov 11
[11] MM Instagram - Aug 22
[12] MM Instagram - Aug 16
[13] XK Instagram - Oct 29
[14] EC Instagram - May 13
[15] KG Instagram - Nov 12
[16] Moscow PD - Nov 15
[17] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet - Nov 14
[18] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[19] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet - Nov 15
[20] Four university of Idaho Students discovered dead - Law&Crime - Nov 15
[21] @AndrewBaertlein (KTVB) tweet - Nov 14
[22] @AndrewBaertlein (KTVB) tweet - Nov 16
[23] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[24] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[25] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[26] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[27] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[28] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[29] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 14
[30] @dugganreports (KTVB) tweet - Nov 15
[31] Family of alleged Moscow homicide victim remembers - Nov 14
[32] Suspect sought in U of I deaths - Idaho Statesman - Nov 15
[33] Four U of I students died in senseless act of violence - LM Tribute - Nov 14
[34] Homicide investigation underway - KHQ - Nov 15
[35] Man reportedly threatened students with knife - ISJ - Sep 15
[36] Blood oozes through walls of home - DailyMail (TABLOID) - Nov 15
[37] University of Idaho homicide victims - FoxNews - Nov 15
[38] @johnwebbtv (KHQ-TV) - Nov 16
[39] 4 Idaho students killed in 'targeted attack' - ABCNews - Nov 16
[40] Slain university of Idaho victims' parents frustrated - ABCNews - Nov 16
[41] Chilling video shows 2 of the 4 - DailyMail (TABLOID) - Nov 16
[42] Extended interview with the family of Kaylee Goncalves VIDEO - KHQ - Nov 15
[43] Idaho College Students murdered in 'Crime of Passion' VIDEO - Inside Edition - Nov 16
[44] Police investigation narrows to search for combat-style knife - Idaho Statesman - Nov 16
[45] Latah County Coroner says all four students killed near University of Idaho were victims - KREM - Nov 15
[46] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 16
[47] Moscow Police Dept Press Conference - Nov 16
[48] @dugganreports (KTVB) tweet THREAD - Nov 17
[49] @AbbyDavisKTVB tweet - Nov 17
[50] @esterbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 17
[51] Mystery surrounds stabbing deaths - WTOP - Nov 17
[52] Autopsies confirm cause of death for UofI students - DNews.com - Nov 17
[53] Slain Idaho students leave behind bright memories... - AP News - Nov 17
[54] @KREMAmandaRoley tweet - Nov 17
[55] @KREMAmandaRoley tweet - Nov 17
[56] She's a tough kid... - AZFamily - Nov 17
[57] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 17

Bumping timeline and links for references confirming things, debunking things, and victims SM.

 

[MomGN2BMD]

You know, I was checking out the apartment complex next to the house and it's just amazing to me how there's no cameras there on the side. Like, if I owned a multimillion dollar commercial property, i'm installing cameras.

View attachment 381398

Especially if one perhaps knowlingly houses a registered sex offender at the address.......and another one or a couple live less than a stone's throw away up or down the hill... I'd want to know what was happening around any building I own and have to consider liability for.

 

[Curiosa20]

Would they already have dna results back from under fingernails etc ??

I can’t imagine that being possible.
Crime scene DNA samples require very elaborate analysis. I believe even if rushed it could easily be at least 2 months. Wishful thinking maybe 6 weeks but doubtful.
Rapid DNA cheek swabs can give results in 2 hours but that’s a whole different issue.

 

[RetiredEE]

is it possible that the perpetrator escaped out the third floor? Attacked E and X on the second floor, K and M made their calls because they heard something, perpetrator continued up to the third floor?

The hillside continues up a bit behind the house and to the left, and the balcony off the third floor - in this picture from one victim's Instagram shows how the balcony wraps around and gets pretty close to the driveway at the back. This is pretty common for decks in this area and dropping down a few feet on to cushy pine needles would be fast and easy.

Yes, I posted this closeup of the ledge outside the railing on the (3rd floor) back porch several threads ago. It's a crop from a DM article that had a ton of pix:

Link to original photo: Revealed: two Idaho students who survived when roommates were murdered

Moo, but anyone lurking up behind the building (C side, in FF lingo) in the Queen St. parking area adjacent to some of the larger apt complexes, may have had a clear view of both of the 3rd floor bedrooms and also the 2nd floor sliding glass door, which I believe police said was the point of entry (?)

It's conceivable that a stalker/Killer could have been watching the house for some time. Perhaps even before they took the Uber to go get a 1:30AM snack.

IMO, police should have opened up their window of video interest to many hours before the incident. Maybe even days, if there was someone who had cased the area earlier.

JMO.

 

[Star_crossed]

I’m surprised they have no video of even a dark clothed man walking on street or getting into car somewhere on the street nearby . If they checked all the videos of all streets and sidewalks nearby ( which im sure they have ) how is there no suspicious man walking or walking to car ? I’m sure the time he would have been it was pretty dead and would stand out . What was this guy invisible ??

 

[whiskers]

With a crime like this, I’d wager the perp knew the house did not have cameras. Whether from visiting or simply walking by and watching the house.

 

[SouthernSummer]

They could; Rapid DNA tests can be run in as little as 90 minutes these days, and the FBI would have access to the best equipment.

But if the perp’s dna isn’t in the system, that doesn’t help much. They’re going to have to be getting creative on getting samples. I almost don’t want to post that here in case the perp reads here and had not thought of it yet.

 

[whiskers]

Yes, I posted this closeup of the ledge outside the railing on the back porch several threads ago. It's a crop from a Fox article that had a ton of pix:

Moo, but anyone lurking up behind the building (C side, in FF lingo) in the Queen St. parking area adjacent to some of the larger apt complexes, may have had a clear view of both of the 3rd floor bedrooms and also the 2nd floor sliding glass door, which I believe police said was the point of entry (?)

It's conceivable that a stalker/Killer could have been watching the house for some time. Perhaps even before they took the Uber to go get a 1:30AM snack.

IMO, police should have opened up their window of video interest to many hours before the incident. Maybe even days, if there was someone who had cased the area earlier.

JMO.

Well, I hate to be that person. But on my tablet, when I zoom in, there are a few red clusters. But only on the side. Nowhere else.

 

[bitethehand]

Yes, I posted this closeup of the ledge outside the railing on the (3rd floor) back porch several threads ago. It's a crop from a Fox article that had a ton of pix:

Moo, but anyone lurking up behind the building (C side, in FF lingo) in the Queen St. parking area adjacent to some of the larger apt complexes, may have had a clear view of both of the 3rd floor bedrooms and also the 2nd floor sliding glass door, which I believe police said was the point of entry (?)

It's conceivable that a stalker/Killer could have been watching the house for some time. Perhaps even before they took the Uber to go get a 1:30AM snack.

IMO, police should have opened up their window of video interest to many hours before the incident. Maybe even days, if there was someone who had cased the area earlier.

JMO.

And he could have been watching the house for weeks.