ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

[Allabouttrial]

Idaho student murders: Former officers say police 'jumped the gun' with initial 'targeted' attack statement

Two former detectives with the LAPD and NYPD weigh in on information police have released regarding the murders of four University of Idaho students.

uk.news.yahoo.com

Two former detectives say the Moscow Police Department's decision to call the Nov. 13 quadruple homicide near the University of Idaho an "isolated, targeted attack" may have been premature.

"I think the police definitely jumped the gun with that statement," former New York City Police Department Det. Herman Weisberg told Fox News Digital. "You have to have a suspect or a reason to say that. They have a murder mystery here. No forced entry, which could have led them to believe it was a crime of passion or someone who knew them."

Former Los Angeles Police Department Det. Mark Fuhrman similarly said MPD's statement saying the attack was "isolated" and "targeted" struck him as odd, especially given the fact that the statement was made before the coroner released preliminary autopsy results for the four victims.

"The ‘targeted attack,’ even if that is true, it just doesn't make sense," Fuhurman said. "In my 20 years in the LAPD, I have never heard anything like that. You can't make that determination that quick. "…To have them say this was an isolated, targeted attack, they could be 100% right, but they have to have something that made them say that."

The former LAPD detective speculated that the perpetrator may have left a note or message of some sort in the house — some indication that the attack was, in fact, isolated and targeted before the autopsies were completed.

Premature or not they're still saying it. From the Presser.

Reporter - Y'all have said that these killings are targeted. Can you share with us, why you believe they are targeted killings? And do you know who, if any, of the victims were the actual targets of the killings?

Chief - As we stated earlier, in our previous press conference, we believe they're targeted because we take a totality of all the circumstances that we're looking at. Do we know any one person that it was targeted? We're not able to say at this point in time, due to our investigation, but we still believe that, but like I said, we take a totality of everything that we're looking at.

ETA: I do strongly believe they know who the target was and why.

 

[avalonisland]

IIRC, from the floor plans that we have seen, the laundry room is on the first floor, where the two surviving roomates' bedrooms are. I do not think the killer could have spent time cleaning up on that level, without being heard by at least one of the roommates, and there has been at least some unconfirmed speculation that perhaps that level could have been locked off from the upper floors.I really believe that once the killing was over, the assailant probably got out and away from the house as quickly as possible. Why achieve the killings you set out to do, only to risk getting caught hanging around after the fact. JMO

If this is a serial killer who planned this, then I agree with you 100%. If this is a student who did not plan, perhaps a reason to clean self up would be to try and keep blood off drive away vehicle (if any), less exit bloodprints, etc. The killings seemed to start on 3rd floor then 2nd, as why would killer kill 2nd floor then go to 3rd floor but not 1st floor that contained front door and additional roommates.

 

[RetiredEE]

But if the perp’s dna isn’t in the system, that doesn’t help much. They’re going to have to be getting creative on getting samples. I almost don’t want to post that here in case the perp reads here and had not thought of it yet. Mods please delete that if you think we need to

23andme DNA from a perp's family can find someone

 

[avalonisland]

is it possible that the perpetrator escaped out the third floor? Attacked E and X on the second floor, K and M made their calls because they heard something, perpetrator continued up to the third floor?

The hillside continues up a bit behind the house and to the left, and the balcony off the third floor - in this picture from one victim's Instagram shows how the balcony wraps around and gets pretty close to the driveway at the back. This is pretty common for decks in this area and dropping down a few feet on to cushy pine needles would be fast and easy.

Good points. Perhaps the perpetrator entered through the sliding glass door balcony on the 3rd floor? Maybe the door was not routinely locked since on the 3rd floor?

 

[clearskies1]

I have the feeling that LE has a suspect in mind but there is not sufficient evidence to make an arrest. This is based on nothing other their sometimes awkward answers to questions. JMO

 

[WingsOverTX]

They initially did and then they changed it to 2-5 am

Well, the final call to J was at 2:52 am so K & M were still awake then. The killing of these two victims would have to be after that unless the perp was dialing their phones (unlikely). Right?

Also, if as LE stated, all four appeared to be asleep when 1st stabbed, a timeline closer to 3:30 or later makes more sense to me. But then, I am assuming the killer made a quick in & out, entering on the 2nd floor & killing E & X then going up to the 3rd floor before exiting into the night.

Hoping an arrest comes soon. This case is an emotional roller coaster even for a far away lurker.

MOO

 

[thisiseku]

i wonder why police keeps repeating that M and K got home at 1:45 while they were on a live stream leaving the food truck at 1:53? i feel like every minute is pretty important in the last hour(s) of their life

here's the exact start and end time of the twitch stream (it started 9:58 pm local time, 1:30 into the stream a worker says "it's 10, let's start")
https://streamscharts.com/channels/grubtruckers/streams/41494907659
and here's the timestamp they appear on stream

they were on stream from 01:42:13 to 01:52:52 local time

 

[Star_crossed]

Well, the final call to J was at 2:52 am so K & M were still awake then. The killing of these two victims would have to be after that unless the perp was dialing their phones (unlikely). Right?

Also, if as LE stated, all four appeared to be asleep when 1st stabbed, a timeline closer to 3:30 or later makes more sense to me. But then, I am assuming the killer made a quick in & out, entering on the 2nd floor & killing E & X then going up to the 3rd floor before exiting into the night.

Hoping an arrest comes soon. This case is an emotional roller coaster even for a far away lurker.

MOO

Yes I agree that it would make sense that it occurred later but LE did officially change the time to 2-5 am . Maybe they are unsure if the calls made were distress calls , not really sure .

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

Here's a footage source at the intersection of Taylor/95. If the suspect drove, this is a good spot to catch a glimpse of the suspects car if he took this route out of the neighborhood.

rsz-1gas-station-near-95

Image rsz-1gas-station-near-95 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[Allabouttrial]

Yes I agree that it would make sense that it occurred later but LE did officially change the time to 2-5 am . Maybe they are unsure if the calls made were distress calls , not really sure .

That's the second time I've seen this said and maybe I missed it. Do you have a source where LE says this please?

 

[Russian Blue]

I know that they think the two surviving room mates got home at about 1 . They think kaylee and Madison got home around 1:45 . Kaylee calls J 6 times from 2:26 -2:44 and Madison then calls J from 2:44 -2:52 three times . Kaylee again Calls J one final time at 2:52. The murders are suspected to have occurred between 2 am and 5 am and the police call was made at 11:58 am from one of the surviving roommates phone .

Where do you get the murders are suspected to have occured between 2 am and 5 am? I thought that was narrowed early on as 3am to 4 am.

 

[RetiredEE]

Premature or not they're still saying it. From the Presser.

Reporter - Y'all have said that these killings are targeted. Can you share with us, why you believe they are targeted killings? And do you know who, if any, of the victims were the actual targets of the killings?

Chief - As we stated earlier, in our previous press conference, we believe they're targeted because we take a totality of all the circumstances that we're looking at. Do we know any one person that it was targeted? We're not able to say at this point in time, due to our investigation, but we still believe that, but like I said, we take a totality of everything that we're looking at.

ETA: I do strongly believe they know who the target was and why.

Even if they do know who and or why, the press conferences are making me less comfortable. I'd rather see them have the ISP PIO read a preprinted (and reviewed by legal) summary of the current facts of the case. As much or as little as they see fit to reveal at this time. So many chances for missteps and revealing unique information that only a killer would know. After the coroner's TV fiasco (IMO) I'd let all the muckity-mucks give their standard speeches and anything case-related would be handled by someone trained to deal with the media. Might even go so far as to ask the media to submit written questions with a promise to answer them by the next business day or at the next presser. I understand town is on edge, but they need to consider that the killer may well be watching.

At its worst, what if they keep saying "targeted" and the killer then decides to commit a completely random crime to throw them off the trail? Or some copycat enters the picture.

Hope they do have way more than they are saying, but not super-comfortable with media-interface so far.

We all want info, but I'm ok with it doled out in careful, legally bulletproof bits

 

[KPO]

i wonder why police keeps repeating that M and K got home at 1:45 while they were on a live stream leaving the food truck at 1:53. i feel like every minute is pretty important in the last hour(s) of their life

here's the exact start and end time of the twitch stream (it started 9:58 pm local time, 1:30 into the stream a worker says "it's 10, let's start")
https://streamscharts.com/channels/grubtruckers/streams/41494907659
and here's the timestamp they appear on stream

they were on stream from 01:42:13 to 01:52:52 local time

Camera time could be off. My cameras aren't automatically synced so maybe they know Grub Truck's are off by a bit.

 

[danablue1]

Marking my spot.
Hoping for an update this week and esp. an arrest !

Same! Fingers crossed

 

[KPO]

Even if they do know who and or why, the press conferences are making me less comfortable. I'd rather see them have the ISP PIO read a preprinted (and reviewed by legal) summary of the current facts of the case. As much or as little as they see fit to reveal at this time. So many chances for missteps and revealing unique information that only a killer would know. After the coroner's TV fiasco (IMO) I'd let all the muckity-mucks give their standard speeches and anything case-related would be handled by someone trained to deal with the media. Might even go so far as to ask the media to submit written questions with a promise to answer them by the next business day or at the next presser. I understand town is on edge, but they need to consider that the killer may well be watching.

At its worst, what if they keep saying "targeted" and the killer then decides to commit a completely random crime to throw them off the trail? Or some copycat enters the picture.

Hope they do have way more than they are saying, but not super-comfortable with media-interface so far.

We all want info, but I'm ok with it doled out in careful, legally bulletproof bits

I agree that media questions should be submitted in advance. They can reject some in advance if they know it might compromise the investigation. Why ask it if they can't answer it.

 

[thisiseku]

Camera time could be off. My cameras aren't automatically synced so maybe they know Grub Truck's are off by a bit.

there's no camera time on the live stream, the stream data about start and end time comes from twitch servers which is 100% accurate. and i was just checking out a grubtruck stream couple of days ago, there's barely any delay responding to chat messages

 

[avalonisland]

The killer(s) almost had to have been well-prepared or trained on how to carry this out in the middle of the night, lurking inside or out while figuring out the right time to sneak in and around with most likely very little light in the house, creeping up and down at least one flight of stairs and room by room as they ambushed 4 innocent lives without making a sound that would wake everyone up. Even though it's been suggested that the crime scene was very sloppy, the perp(s) appear to have been highly sophisticated imo

It's not uncommon for roommates to lock their bedroom door when going to sleep, especially if party going on. So, killer would have a challenge getting in a locked bedroom, so interesting I just think killer would enter house knowng at least how to get into one of rooms of victims- not just relying on entering via bedroom door.

 

[HavenWood]

I don't know the area at all, but just going by google maps - if I was the killer I would head west/south west from the house, it seems to have fewer houses and lots of trees. Then not too far from the scene is a botanical garden and golf course, complete with some ponds or lakes. I would always be tempted to dump evidence/weapon in water.

 

[danablue1]

Well, I hate to be that person. But on my tablet, when I zoom in, there are a few red clusters. But only on the side. Nowhere else.

I see those too

 

[meagan81]

Purely speculating here, but what if the M&K came home and let the dog out and the dog got loose and ran away and they ran after him. When they finally caught the dog they called J to tell him. While out looking for the dog the perp noticed them and it was indeed totally random. Their guard was down because they just found the dog.

Perp follows them back to the house and lays low until the lights go out. He thinks it is just those two and goes upstairs. While he is attacking M & K, E hears a struggle and goes to investigate. X is awaken when E gets up and when he doesn't come back the perp hears her too, which is why she was said (by her father) to have defensive wounds.

MOO