ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #13

[kammiemc]

But, the whole story was in the context of the store sighting with the crying baby. If it was him, but the rest of the details didn't fit (like he didn't actually take Deorr into the store and/or if Deorr wasn't filthy and crying, why would he not say, "well, it could have been me - I did go into the store with Deorr, but I didn't buy him candy and/or he wasn't crying and/or he wasn't filthy.). He gave the impression it was him because it fit with the clerk's account of the store sighting as presented by JM moments earlier. He was agreeing to what she said about the store sighting - that yes, it was him, the only thing was that the time was off. I know we can't know for sure what he thought, we only know what he said, but I just don't see how that can be interpreted any other way.... MOO, of course...

ETA: adding link to interview http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/uncut-entire-interview-with-parents-of-deorr-kunz/

I totally agree with you! I don't really understand. Unless he was presuming that the clerk correctly recalled his physical description, DeOrr's physical description and the color of the truck, yet got the other details wrong, including that the sighting should have been late morning/noonish vs early evening.


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[Cardinal47]

I guess the bottom line for me is - do DK and JM's comments in their interview about the store sighting make sense in light of the sheriff saying in regard to their trip to the store in Leadore, "Somebody said they thought they saw a child in the vehicle while they fueled up, but they're not positive."

I don't think we have enough information to make an intelligent statement. The Sheriff has chosen to keep that top secret.

It's been three months and we know nothing but speculation and rumors along with what the PI chose to say and what the Sheriff said.

We know nothing and that seems to be how they want it to be.

I will say to lose a child and have no money or means to support a search effort has to be the most terrible thing in the world. I am not convinced they don't want to search. I am more of the idea they don't know how and get beat down at every turn.

SM has gone crazy with every kind of speculation one can imagine.

Where is this little blonde boy we have all come to love.

 

[wondering25]

Correct me if i am wrong. The stage shop does not sell diesel fuel. Therefore whoever is saying they thought they saw a baby in the truck in a car seat when the parents were getting gas ( unless if was the other party getting gas) couldnt have seen DK getting gas at the stage shop. Is that correct? and i have another question because i dont know much about older trucks.. Is there room in the from seat for a car seat or is there a real seat in the back where you can attach a car seat? The one we have has 2 "jump seat" looking things.

anything i write is just my opinion

 

[kammiemc]

I guess the bottom line for me is - do DK and JM's comments in their interview about the store sighting make sense in light of the sheriff saying in regard to their trip to the store in Leadore, "Somebody said they thought they saw a child in the vehicle while they fueled up, but they're not positive."

I can't really make the two scenarios jibe. One thing though, it's unclear to me whether JM was saying in the interview that the clerk said the toddler was bawling in the black truck or was just alluding to the man and kid coming and going in a black truck?) However, not sure how the clerk could know dad was buying candy for the toddler unless the was there or dad said so. And also don't know if she get could enough of a look into the truck from inside the store to determine filthy bawling toddler? Dunno!! Head scratching.


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[ClaireNC]

I guess the bottom line for me is - do DK and JM's comments in their interview about the store sighting make sense in light of the sheriff saying in regard to their trip to the store in Leadore, "Somebody said they thought they saw a child in the vehicle while they fueled up, but they're not positive."

I certainly can't make sense of them considering the sheriff's recent comments. It has me questioning everything they said from the beginning. I also got the feeling from the new interview that the sheriff's attitude toward them has changed.

As I said the other day, I have fallen off the fence and landed on the wrong side.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I totally agree with you! I don't really understand. Unless he was presuming that the clerk correctly recalled his physical description, DeOrr's physical description and the color of the truck, yet got the other details wrong, including that the sighting should have been late morning/noonish vs early evening.


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I wonder if it is at all possible the clerks sighting was on Thursday evening at 6PM? Just a thought.

Another question I have...Has LE confirmed they took a statement from a clerk about the sighting? Seems odd that Sheriff Bowerman talks about a possible sighting "whilst pumping gas" three months later but not about this clerk sighting.

@wondering25 If anyone has the year and model name of the truck I'll look into that. As for the gas issue I guess one possibility if it was DK's truck spotted, could it be that a Jerry can was being filled up for GGP's truck back at camp or a ATV (if they had one there)?

 

[kammiemc]

Correct me if i am wrong. The stage shop does not sell diesel fuel. Therefore whoever is saying they thought they saw a baby in the truck in a car seat when the parents were getting gas ( unless if was the other party getting gas) couldnt have seen DK getting gas at the stage shop. Is that correct? and i have another question because i dont know much about older trucks.. Is there room in the from seat for a car seat or is there a real seat in the back where you can attach a car seat? The one we have has 2 "jump seat" looking things.

anything i write is just my opinion

When I watched the video, it seemed to me that the sheriff was saying that the person who thought they they might have seen DeOrr was the one pumping gas--not DK or JM. But I know that is open to interpretation. For some reason, that comes across more clearly to me in the video than in the article. The inflection or timing or something.


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[kammiemc]

I wonder if it is at all possible the clerks sighting was on Thursday evening at 6PM? Just a thought.

Another question I have...Has LE confirmed they took a statement from a clerk about the sighting? Seems odd that Sheriff Bowerman talks about a possible sighting "whilst pumping gas" three months later but not about this clerk sighting.

@wondering25 If anyone has the year and model name of the truck I'll look into that. As for the gas issue I guess one possibility if it was DK's truck spotted, could it be that a Jerry can was being filled up for GGP's truck back at camp or a ATV (if they had one there)?

Well since the rumor cited had the clerk naming the wrong time, why not the wrong day, too? However, it seems from what LE has said they stopped for gas on the way driving to Leadore on Thurs, then went to the Stage Stop on Fri. If it is correct that they arrived on Thurs night around 9:30, a 6PM stop in town seems a little early. It seems like if they spent a couple hours in town on Thirs night that would have been brought up. BUT, we have no idea what was going on Thurs night. So maybe.

ETA: it was in the article that the parents' trip to town was confirmed by a receipt and cashier. I think that is as close to confirmation of the sheriff taking the clerk's statement as we have gotten! And it seems reasonable to assume that the sheriff would have mentioned the clerk seeing DeOrr (instead of/or in addition to a customer maybe seeing him in a car). So I am taking that to mean the clerk couldn't recall seeing the toddler.

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[ClaireNC]

When I watched the video, it seemed to me that the sheriff was saying that the person who thought they they might have seen DeOrr was the one pumping gas--not DK or JM. But I know that is open to interpretation. For some reason, that comes across more clearly to me in the video than in the article. The inflection or timing or something.

I agree with you, Kammie. I got the same interpretation from watching the video.

 

[desert-blue]

Correct me if i am wrong. The stage shop does not sell diesel fuel. Therefore whoever is saying they thought they saw a baby in the truck in a car seat when the parents were getting gas ( unless if was the other party getting gas) couldnt have seen DK getting gas at the stage shop. Is that correct? and i have another question because i dont know much about older trucks.. Is there room in the from seat for a car seat or is there a real seat in the back where you can attach a car seat? The one we have has 2 "jump seat" looking things.

anything i write is just my opinion

I think that it must have been the other party getting gas because they don't sell diesel (and they had already stopped once for diesel on their their way up, according to Penner). Good question about the truck. I don't know if it had a full back seat or not? I thought someone said it was pretty old, like 1978 or something, but I could be wrong on that.

 

[pepelepolecat]

We don't know that he's the only one with a lawyer. He's the only one that we were told has a lawyer. Guilty or innocent and no matter what Mark Klaas says, I think all POIs in circumstances such as this need to retain lawyers. Justice isn't always just.

I've only seen that he had an attorney through the PI and have not seen any confirmation of that through major news sources or the sheriff. Unless there's more reliable confirmation, I think I'll withold judgment on this particular point (just like I witheld judgment on ggpa's o-alls and the axe and the creep-in-the-Jeep and ... all the other strange little details that just don't add up). It's unfair to chuck IR or anyone else under the bus over what is tantamount to gossip, imo.

IR is an easy scapegoat, but I wouldn't want anyone I loved or cared about in such a horrible position as to be the only stranger present when a child went missing. He's going to have a huge cloud of suspicion over his head for the rest of his life -- if he got an attorney (and that's a really big IF in my book), then he's a smart man ... not necessarily a guilty one.

 

[neesaki]

We don't know that he's the only one with a lawyer. He's the only one that we were told has a lawyer. Guilty or innocent and no matter what Mark Klaas says, I think all POIs in circumstances such as this need to retain lawyers. Justice isn't always just.

Ok, I myself tend to agree with Mark Klaas because he's actually been through this particular kind of hell, so I have great respect for his opinion. I do think each situation is different, though.
And maybe you're right, maybe they're all lawyered up out the kazoo. But we don't know that so can only sit here and wonder. In fact about all we do know amounts to little more than diddly squat. JMO

 

[pepelepolecat]

I'm not convinced that LE have called off any searches - or if they had, what their reasons would be. They have not said publically that they have called off any searches. I remember some members of the public were distrustful of the money raising for searches, because they said that genuine search and rescue organisations do not charge for their services, they volunteer. I don't know if that is true though. I do know that some of the people who have been searching have had their own agendas besides just wanting to find DeOrr's body.

I wonder if one or more of the polygraphs were inconclusive. Many factors such as dementia, drug use, mental illness and some physical illnesses can mean that polygraph results are inconclusive or can not be trusted. I do think that if everyone had passed we would have heard by now.

I've always wondered how often polygraphs actually fail. I think I'd be so nervous/anxious during a polygraph that mine would be all over the place -- regardless of my honesty or not. And given the circumstances under which those PGs were administered ... I just don't know.

ETA: bbm

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I wonder if it is at all possible the clerks sighting was on Thursday evening at 6PM? Just a thought.

Another question I have...Has LE confirmed they took a statement from a clerk about the sighting? Seems odd that Sheriff Bowerman talks about a possible sighting "whilst pumping gas" three months later but not about this clerk sighting.

@wondering25 If anyone has the year and model name of the truck I'll look into that. As for the gas issue I guess one possibility if it was DK's truck spotted, could it be that a Jerry can was being filled up for GGP's truck back at camp or a ATV (if they had one there)?

I thought the same - maybe sighting was Thursday night.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I guess the bottom line for me is - do DK and JM's comments in their interview about the store sighting make sense in light of the sheriff saying in regard to their trip to the store in Leadore, "Somebody said they thought they saw a child in the vehicle while they fueled up, but they're not positive."

:no:...

 

[ReadySet]

I totally agree with you! I don't really understand. Unless he was presuming that the clerk correctly recalled his physical description, DeOrr's physical description and the color of the truck, yet got the other details wrong, including that the sighting should have been late morning/noonish vs early evening.


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At first, I thought that maybe what the parents said in the their interview was informed by what LE had asked them; what they expected the public would ask them; and that LE has asked them to emphasize some things and not others, to bring up some things and stay silent on some, for investigative purposes. After all this time, would they stay silent if LE asked them to, in the face of the public's accusations? Would LE ask them to do that? Do my questions make sense?

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Well since the rumor cited had the clerk naming the wrong time, why not the wrong day, too?

Anything is possible at this point.

However, it seems from what LE has said they stopped for gas on the way driving to Leadore on Thurs, then went to the Stage Stop on Fri.

Are you referring to what Deputy Penner said in the NE interview? That isn't clear to me (rolls eyes) NE asks if they stopped anywhere on their way to Leadore (doesn't specify from camp to Leadore or from home) and Penner says for Diesel. NE then asks if there was surveillance video at the gas station (Penner says no) and Bowerman interjects with "I'd be surprised if there's a camera anywheres in Leadore".

If it is correct that they arrived on Thurs night around 9:30, a 6PM stop in town seems a little early. It seems like if they spent a couple hours in town on Thirs night that would have been brought up. BUT, we have no idea what was going on Thurs night. So maybe.

I agree it does seem unlikely but as far as I know it has never been said what time they left home?

ETA: it was in the article that the parents' trip to town was confirmed by a receipt and cashier. I think that is as close to confirmation of the sheriff taking the clerk's statement as we have gotten! And it seems reasonable to assume that the sheriff would have mentioned the clerk seeing DeOrr (instead of/or in addition to a customer). So I am taking that to mean the clerk couldn't recall seeing

Listening to the section of the EIN interview about the store visit seems to narrow down the time only to before noon/in the AM if I'm interpreting correctly. We now have a more specific 10:30-11:00 am. The time stamp on the receipt presumably has a time around the 11:00 am time? The early timeline had the store visit down at ~12:00-12:10 pm IIRC?

 

[desert-blue]

At this point, a Thursday sighting makes even less sense. If it was on Thursday, why on earth would the parents even bring that up as a "rumor" - it wouldn't be a rumor, it would be true! (unless they didn't want anyone to know they were there on Thursday, but that doesn't bode well either). Makes no sense to me... no one has indicated that they went to the store twice and the sheriff said they arrived around sunset - I wonder what the time stamp is on the diesel receipt where they stopped on the way up?

 

[Suthrnqt]

Marking my spot.....

 

[katydid23]

I wonder if it is at all possible the clerks sighting was on Thursday evening at 6PM? Just a thought.

Another question I have...Has LE confirmed they took a statement from a clerk about the sighting? Seems odd that Sheriff Bowerman talks about a possible sighting "whilst pumping gas" three months later but not about this clerk sighting.

@wondering25 If anyone has the year and model name of the truck I'll look into that. As for the gas issue I guess one possibility if it was DK's truck spotted, could it be that a Jerry can was being filled up for GGP's truck back at camp or a ATV (if they had one there)?

I don't believe it would have been Thursday at 6 pm because they reportedly arrived at the camp site at 9:30 pm. What would they do for 3 hrs before arriving at the site which is just 20 minutes away?