ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #13

[Rayemonde]

Here is the only comment he made in the interview last week about behavioral analysis:

09:36
SB: Well, I can tell you that all four people have taken polygraphs. I’m not willing to discuss um um the uh…the findings of those polygraphs at this point. Uh we’re um having some including the FBI look at the results just to give us uh their impression and uh, you know um those are difficult uh interviews and uh you know the polygraph uh experts uh, you know, sometimes they don’t agree, so…uh we’re looking at those real close and we’re doing a behavioral analysis based on their statements uh at the time of their interview.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12122056#post12122056

I don't think SB and Bonneville County are back at square one. SB said he was going there to discuss where to take the case. I believe him.

The FBI informed us that they could not analyze some evidence that we gave them,” Bowerman wrote in an email to EastIdahoNews.com Friday. “I’m not sure what that’s about, and they still haven’t provided me any behavioral analysis.”

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/10/sheriff-fbi-unable-to-analyze-some-evidence-in-deorr-kunz-case/

 

[Rayemonde]

I think there are signs at the campground warning about bears, but not cougars. There are rules that all food items must be kept in the secure storage lockers provided, and garbage disposed of properly, so bears aren't attracted to them.

IIRC, the family hung Deorr's dirty diaper from a tree overnight so it would be out of the reach of animals. I think this may have been a violation of the rules, as the smell of it would still have attracted animals even though it was hanging from a tree. Dirty diapers do attract animals such as bears, but I doubt they would attract cougars as cougars are not omnivorous. JMO.

http://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/timber_creek_cg.htm

 

[ILOKAL]

Google? Wazzz dat? Jk
I know what your talking about. I've googled mountain lions enough I've bumped into a few law suits. That one little boy was attacked by one while walking with his family from a restaurant to their car!!! I'd share a link but nobody cares what I got to say anyways.

You are SO wrong, giagreen. Not only do I care what you have to say, but IMO you are one of the most spot-on posters following this case, and I thank you for your accuracy and wisdom.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I find it odd that in the parents interview they said they went exploring. SB says they went with IR to check out a fishing hole. Why 2 different stories?

SB didn't say who went into the store that day. Was it mom, dad & deorr or just mom & dad or just dad. If mom & dad went into the store, where was deorr? Left in the truck alone? Was the store the same place they pumped gas? If I understand SB correctly, they have video of someone pumping gas, so maybe they have video of who got out of the truck to go into the store. I'm just speculating here cuz this story is really bothering me and time is of the essence. Daddy begins his interview with the 911 call and really never speaks about the happenings at the campground when deorr went missing.

I would like to know when was the last time anyone saw DeOrr other than the 4 at the campground?

This is just me speculating. JMO. My hinky meter is off the charts.

Only addressing the first question:

Looking for fishing holes could equal "exploring" in people's minds. The last time we went camping, our kids went "exploring" in the wooded area right off the campsite -- if you'd asked their dad and me. But if you'd asked them, they'd have said "Hunting for skunk holes." Because that's what they were really doing (and they did find skunk burrows, btw). This particular "inconsistency" is nothing at all that pings my hinky radar.

 

[Cardinal47]

Why did DK go 1/2 mile up the road to get cell phone coverage when they already had it?

Good question. He had to know if he could call and receive since he had been there since Thursday evening.

Most folks never put those things down. On them all the time.

 

[sonjay]

If, for example, DeOrr was taken and killed by a mountain lion and no warnings about the presence and dangers of mountain lions were posted, the government could be held liable. There are previous cases in California for the same thing.

Can we — and more important, should we — really expect "the government" to warn people about every possible danger in wilderness areas? Venomous snakes & spiders. Falling tree branches. Scorpions. Bears. Rabid raccoons. Wolves & coyotes. Holes in the ground into which you could fall or in which you could trip and break a bone. Bodies of water that you might drown in. Cliffs that you might fall off of. Steep slopes that you might have trouble negotiating. Elks in rut that might attack you.

You're in the mountains, there are likely to be mountain lions. That should be a given. You shouldn't need a warning. You should keep a close eye on your young children all the time, everywhere.

 

[wondering25]

The site was accessible and unsecured. 911 was called and it took the sheriff over an hour to get there..still unsecured.. there were people on the upper campsite, who were there, had their children visit and supposedly helped to search.. then 'disappeared" then were tracked down and vouched for by their local LE. I don't even know what that means. MOO

ANYONE could have slipped in or out. The parents were "solid", the FBI was called in 3 weeks later, and there is no trace of the baby.

Accident or foul play IMO. A human knows what happened..MOO

Anything i write is just my opinion.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Good question. He had to know if he could call and receive since he had been there since Thursday evening.

Most folks never put those things down. On them all the time.

Maybe he didn't drive 1/2 mile to make sure he had signal. Maybe he went somewhere else and used the hunting for signal story to explain why his engine was hot.

 

[ILOKAL]

Can we — and more important, should we — really expect "the government" to warn people about every possible danger in wilderness areas? Venomous snakes & spiders. Falling tree branches. Scorpions. Bears. Rabid raccoons. Wolves & coyotes. Holes in the ground into which you could fall or in which you could trip and break a bone. Bodies of water that you might drown in. Cliffs that you might fall off of. Steep slopes that you might have trouble negotiating. Elks in rut that might attack you.

You're in the mountains, there are likely to be mountain lions. That should be a given. You shouldn't need a warning. You should keep a close eye on your young children all the time, everywhere.

Well, to be honest, when we recently camped, (didn't know yet about DeOrr's disappearing), my concern was stranger-danger. I also had checked to see if black bears were in the area as we were tent camping and when I found there were none, it sounded like a good place. NEVER did I give mountain lions a thought - not in a million years. Yet we WERE in an area that has been known to have mountain lions and we were none the wiser.

ETA: "Mountain" Lions aren't just in the mountains, ya know. We are at zero elevation and they have been found in our county.

 

[ILOKAL]

Good question. He had to know if he could call and receive since he had been there since Thursday evening.

Most folks never put those things down. On them all the time.

Of course, we can't "assume" DK "had to know" if he could call and receive from the campsite and we don't know what his habit of using his phone was either. Although, like you said, most folks never put those things down and are on them all the time (really sad, IMO) he might not be one of those.

Also, just because JM's phone got service doesn't mean DK's would have. My husband and I don't always get the same service either. Of course, we just have the old fashioned little black flip top phone-only devices which might make a difference. We don't text either.

I just don't think there's anything at all suspicious of where DK placed the 911 call, IMO.

 

[sonjay]

Well, to be honest, when we recently camped, (didn't know yet about DeOrr's disappearing), my concern was stranger-danger. I also had checked to see if black bears were in the area as we were tent camping and when I found there were none, it sounded like a good place. NEVER did I give mountain lions a thought - not in a million years. Yet we WERE in an area that has been known to have mountain lions and we were none the wiser.

ETA: "Mountain" Lions aren't just in the mountains, ya know. We are at zero elevation and they have been found in our county.

Oh, yeah, I'm well aware of that. I'm in Florida, at zero elevation, and we have 'em. They're called Florida panthers here, but they're essentially mountain lions. One is occasionally spotted in my neighborhood.

I just meant, in the mountains as opposed to, say, in downtown NYC or somewhere like that. I'm sure mountain lions have shown up in urban areas, but you don't expect to see them there, and you likely wouldn't be on the lookout for them.

 

[ILOKAL]

Oh, yeah, I'm well aware of that. I'm in Florida, at zero elevation, and we have 'em. They're called Florida panthers here, but they're essentially mountain lions. One is occasionally spotted in my neighborhood.

I just meant, in the mountains as opposed to, say, in downtown NYC or somewhere like that. I'm sure mountain lions have shown up in urban areas, but you don't expect to see them there, and you likely wouldn't be on the lookout for them.

Oh yeah, I read about those Florida Panthers which are, indeed, mountain lions. They live in the Everglades? Good - maybe they can play with the pythons, LOL. We live in Coastal Alabama and some here say sightings have been of the Florida Panthers who have crept this way. Actually, and I know this might sound untrue (but it's not), even if in the mountains, I would not have thought of mountain lions. Yes, I knew there was such an animal but never researched them to be able to even know they were in North America! I have traveled a LOT and am (fairly) well read, so I just don't know how many people, like me, don't know a thing about lions in the US. When we lived in Oklahoma, 1/4 mile from the Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge, my then 10-yr old son told me he saw a mountain lion or cougar not far from our house. He called the Refuge Manager at the time who denied they were in the state, much less the area. Since I began research on them I decided to check out the refuge, and sure enough, they are listed as wildlife there NOW and although they were actually seen by refuge officials back when my son inquired, they were not listed as being there. NOT good! BTW, we just returned from there last Saturday - nope, didn't see any mountain lions! Lots of buffalo, longhorns, elk, and prairie dogs, but NO mountain lions!

 

[sonjay]

Oh yeah, I read about those Florida Panthers which are, indeed, mountain lions. They live in the Everglades? Good - maybe they can play with the pythons, LOL. We live in Coastal Alabama and some here say sightings have been of the Florida Panthers who have crept this way. Actually, and I know this might sound untrue (but it's not), even if in the mountains, I would not have thought of mountain lions. Yes, I knew there was such an animal but never researched them to be able to even know they were in North America! I have traveled a LOT and am (fairly) well read, so I just don't know how many people, like me, don't know a thing about lions in the US. When we lived in Oklahoma, 1/4 mile from the Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge, my then 10-yr old son told me he saw a mountain lion or cougar not far from our house. He called the Refuge Manager at the time who denied they were in the state, much less the area. Since I began research on them I decided to check out the refuge, and sure enough, they are listed as wildlife there NOW and although they were actually seen by refuge officials back when my son inquired, they were not listed as being there. NOT good! BTW, we just returned from there last Saturday - nope, didn't see any mountain lions! Lots of buffalo, longhorns, elk, and prairie dogs, but NO mountain lions!

Well, that's the thing about mountain lions. They're exceedingly stealthy, and you rarely see one unless he wants you to see him.

We watch out for alligators in every body of water here in south Florida, regardless of whether or not "the government" has seen fit to warn us about them.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

In Laura's case, she was paralyzed. Her parents had millions of dollars of medical fees and other expenses....You do what you gotta do. I can't blame them for finding any reason they could for a lawsuit.

 

[Cardinal47]

Of course, we can't "assume" DK "had to know" if he could call and receive from the campsite and we don't know what his habit of using his phone was either. Although, like you said, most folks never put those things down and are on them all the time (really sad, IMO) he might not be one of those.

Also, just because JM's phone got service doesn't mean DK's would have. My husband and I don't always get the same service either. Of course, we just have the old fashioned little black flip top phone-only devices which might make a difference. We don't text either.

I just don't think there's anything at all suspicious of where DK placed the 911 call, IMO.

Well I do so we disagree. DK was a truck driver and on the road. I think he would have the finest phone available. MOO

Actually it just came to me before I wrote that comment. Those with cell phones seem to live with them on their ear.

So my guess is he knew if he had service in that area. And to be sure they have probably checked the records to see what calls were coming in and going out if there were any and how many.

Good question for the Sheriff next time there is an interview.

 

[Rayemonde]

Well I do so we disagree. DK was a truck driver and on the road. I think he would have the finest phone available. MOO

Actually it just came to me before I wrote that comment. Those with cell phones seem to live with them on their ear.

So my guess is he knew if he had service in that area. And to be sure they have probably checked the records to see what calls were coming in and going out if there were any and how many.

Good question for the Sheriff next time there is an interview.

It's a bit of an assumption that he would have the finest cellphone that money can buy just because he's a truck driver!

Also, cellphone service comes and goes. You can have a phone conversation one moment wit no problem, and the next you will lose the signal and be unable to make further calls.

 

[ILOKAL]

Well, that's the thing about mountain lions. They're exceedingly stealthy, and you rarely see one unless he wants you to see him.

We watch out for alligators in every body of water here in south Florida, regardless of whether or not "the government" has seen fit to warn us about them.

In all fairness, the wildlife most associated with Florida is the alligator, but such is not the case with mountain lions. I just don't think mountain lions EVER come to mind to most people in general, no matter WHERE they live.

 

[giagreen]

You are SO wrong, giagreen. Not only do I care what you have to say, but IMO you are one of the most spot-on posters following this case, and I thank you for your accuracy and wisdom.

This will be the only time I will ever admit to being wrong on here!!!! Lol

 

[Popeye'sMom]

Regarding my long-winded post a few pages back. I understand why the Sherriff would have thought DeOrr had simply gotten lost. I even understand how it may have taken a period of time for him to consider the other possibilities. Not a few of us on here have said ourselves, who would go to a remote campsite to kidnap a child? I would be willing to bet that they have had similar missing children’s cases where the child wandered off and was found by SAR. I’m assuming they have not had any true stranger abduction kidnappings. The human brain goes to what it knows so I think it’s perfectly reasonable that the events panned out as they did.
My point was rather that some of us on here point out how the message has changed or things aren’t right. I think those inconsistencies can be accounted for by looking at the disappearance and investigation as a process that was constantly changing.
My belief is that DeOrr is somewhere up there in a crack or crevice and hasn’t been found. There are enough cases where searches were conducted and the bodies not found to later have it turn up in the same area.
Jesse Capen (a full grown adult male) wasn’t found for 4 years even though “In the past three years, hundreds of volunteers have scoured the desert looking for Capen’s remains.” This was in the dessert with little brush. How much smaller was DeOrr and how much more complicated is the geography of Idaho?
All MOO.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22314861/denver-mans-search-lost-dutchman-mine-likely-ended

 

[Cardinal47]

Regarding my long-winded post a few pages back. I understand why the Sherriff would have thought DeOrr had simply gotten lost. I even understand how it may have taken a period of time for him to consider the other possibilities. Not a few of us on here have said ourselves, who would go to a remote campsite to kidnap a child? I would be willing to bet that they have had similar missing children’s cases where the child wandered off and was found by SAR. I’m assuming they have not had any true stranger abduction kidnappings. The human brain goes to what it knows so I think it’s perfectly reasonable that the events panned out as they did.
My point was rather that some of us on here point out how the message has changed or things aren’t right. I think those inconsistencies can be accounted for by looking at the disappearance and investigation as a process that was constantly changing.
My belief is that DeOrr is somewhere up there in a crack or crevice and hasn’t been found. There are enough cases where searches were conducted and the bodies not found to later have it turn up in the same area.
Jesse Capen (a full grown adult male) wasn’t found for 4 years even though “In the past three years, hundreds of volunteers have scoured the desert looking for Capen’s remains.” This was in the dessert with little brush. How much smaller was DeOrr and how much more complicated is the geography of Idaho?
All MOO.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22314861/denver-mans-search-lost-dutchman-mine-likely-ended

So than what about the Sheriff saying "we searched thoroughly and I am 99% sure he is not up here"?

Was he wrong? Or do we all go to that 1%?