ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #18

[CJidaho]

You asked why they didn't take DeOrr to go see the minnows in the first place instead of going to the creek and then coming back to show DeOrr the minnows. They weren't going to see minnows. They were going to see the fish. While they were there, the dad saw some minnows he thought DeOrr would love to see so he headed back to get him. Thank you for the transcript

No problem. well minnows are fish...anyway it's a different version of their interview with Nate where they VDK and JM went on a walk and approached IR already "fishing" for whatever a the creek.

One story IR was asked to take them to see the place the other story; IR was already at the creek.



If I was asking questions about this discrepancy and they went "...um well, um, let's see..."

It gets my spidey senses going that's all. IMO

 

[bluesneakers]

You asked why they didn't take DeOrr to go see the minnows in the first place instead of going to the creek and then coming back to show DeOrr the minnows. They weren't going to see minnows. They were going to see the fish. While they were there, the dad saw some minnows he thought DeOrr would love to see so he headed back to get him. Thank you for the transcript

I would recommend watching the first interview they gave. In that interview DK said they saw minnows (he specifically mentioned minnows by name) while they were exploring, then went back to get DeOrr. There was no mention of IR at all. JM didn't deny this nor did she attempt to correct him. Now we have a different version. I think we can see for ourselves how DK has been less than truthful since DeOrr has gone missing.

 

[ClaireNC]

Oh but he has: "Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman says Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz Sr. have been "less than truthful." From: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sheriff...in-disappearance-of-idaho-toddler-deorr-kunz/

And before you split hairs, "less than truthful" means "not telling the truth" and is just a nicer way to say "untruthful"

Thesaurus untruthful

Synonyms of untruthful
1 not being in agreement with what is true
Synonyms: erroneous, inaccurate, incorrect, inexact, invalid, off, unsound, untrue, false, wrong
Related Words: counterfactual; specious, spurious; deceptive, delusive, delusory, distorted, fallacious, fictitious, illusory, misleading; amiss, askew, awry; deceitful, dishonest, fraudulent, lying, mendacious; unconfirmed, unproven, untested; fabricated, invented, made-up, trumped-up

 

[Rayemonde]

Or maybe IR drove.

From the sheriff's interview with Tricia:

SB: "I know one was a Suburban and one was a pickup. The Suburban was pulling a camping trailer that was driven by Grandpa, and Isaac rode with Grandpa. "

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page4

 

[CJidaho]

I know some people have said it sounds unrealistic for the parents to search for an hour before calling 911... I've never lost a child but just a couple of weeks ago I let my dogs in the garden, then followed them out a couple of minutes later - and saw that part of the the fence had blown down and they were gone. I felt absolutely frantic and ran up and down for literally a couple of minutes looking for them before I had my phone out to call my family to come and help look for them... I was calling my family on my cell as I was still running around looking, and that's what the parents could have done rather than hauling off down the road looking for signal.

Granted this was a different situation because dogs can move very quickly unlike a toddler, and I was concerned about the dogs getting into a nearby sheep field and killing sheep or being shot by a farmer, or being hit by a car... But my heart is racing now just from remembering how frantic I felt after just a couple of minutes. If it were a toddler that was missing, around water and with wild animals around... I can't even imagine how I would feel. There's no way it would take me an hour to make that call. Every minute would have felt like an hour. And when I called 911 I definitely would have sounded hysterical rather than calm. Yes everybody reacts differently and all that jazz, but an hour... When there was all that water around, and everyone knows it takes no time at all for a toddler to drown...

ETA my dogs came back after a few minutes by themselves, and I have now put a sign on my door to remind myself to always check the fence *before* I let the dogs out, just in case.

Not to mention, where they were help was not going to arrive quickly. I also find it odd that VDK didn't even attempt to call initially because he stated he had only 1 bar of service. I mean, I'd give it a shot !

*If they found Deorr (assuming accidental death) within 5-10 minutes of searching, another hour is a long time to decide what to do. IMO

 

[Elle*Bee]

Has it ever been determined why IR in his recent interview said he hasn't heard from GGP all winter but that he (IR) heard that GGP is on oxygen now? Yet we believe GGP was on oxygen on the campout, correct? I found that curious.

 

[renarde]

Possible. Though neither oxygen need nor dementia would necessarily mean GPP wasn't able to drive well. Especially if he was a good driver used to driving before he became ill.

True. We don't really know who drove what, do we? Maybe JM drove one vehicle and DK drove the other... Maybe IR drove. Maybe they took turns... we don't even know if little DeOrr had a car seat. Or which vehicle he was in. Do we?

 

[EllieBee]

I'm having a hard time with this. With the parts that the sheriff said they were less than truthful with were yes or no questions, if they answered no to those questions and failed those questions in 4 polys wouldn't that be a lie?

Yes. That would be lying. Repeatedly.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I know some people have said it sounds unrealistic for the parents to search for an hour before calling 911... I've never lost a child but just a couple of weeks ago I let my dogs in the garden, then followed them out a couple of minutes later - and saw that part of the the fence had blown down and they were gone. I felt absolutely frantic and ran up and down for literally a couple of minutes looking for them before I had my phone out to call my family to come and help look for them... I was calling my family on my cell as I was still running around looking, and that's what the parents could have done rather than hauling off down the road looking for signal.

Granted this was a different situation because dogs can move very quickly unlike a toddler, and I was concerned about the dogs getting into a nearby sheep field and killing sheep or being shot by a farmer, or being hit by a car... But my heart is racing now just from remembering how frantic I felt after just a couple of minutes. If it were a toddler that was missing, around water and with wild animals around... I can't even imagine how I would feel. There's no way it would take me an hour to make that call. Every minute would have felt like an hour. And when I called 911 I definitely would have sounded hysterical rather than calm. Yes everybody reacts differently and all that jazz, but an hour... When there was all that water around, and everyone knows it takes no time at all for a toddler to drown...

ETA my dogs came back after a few minutes by themselves, and I have now put a sign on my door to remind myself to always check the fence *before* I let the dogs out, just in case.

Some parents need a sign that says "don't leave kids unattended."

 

[bluesneakers]

Thesaurus untruthful

Could "less than truthful" simply be the phrase the experts use when gauging a polygraph test? Like it doesn't register "blatantly lying."

 

[kammiemc]

Of course that does not "prove" anything. LE and the FBI don't make that determination. (modsnip)

Are you thinking that LE and the FBI's position that the parents are being untruthful about how their child died and where he is right now is less valid than your position that he just wandered? Has your investigation revealed information that perhaps they are not privy to?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Not to mention, where they were help was not going to arrive quickly. I also find it odd that VDK didn't even attempt to call initially because he stated he had only 1 bar of service. I mean, I'd give it a shot !

*If they found Deorr (assuming accidental death) within 5-10 minutes of searching, another hour is a long time to decide what to do. IMO

One bar will get you connected if you stay put long enough to finish the call.

 

[kammiemc]

Instead of getting frustrated, I am just going to ask, does anyone have any proof or even any information saying that the parents have been truthful and that their stories have been consistently consistent?

 

[carbuff]

I am pretty sure that the sheriff said someplace that IR does not drive. (sorry do not have the link handy). GGP very well could be driving even though he really shouldn't. Unfortunately it happens a lot. When people age to the point they shouldn't be driving any more, there are no systems in place to test their driving skills. Have you ever tried to drive in Florida? So I don't find it odd at all that GGP is still driving around, even if he shouldn't be.

Well, that too, but I meant that depending on exactly what conditions he has and how far they have progressed, he could still be a decent driver.

I don't know whether IR drives or not, but SB said last night GPP drove and IR rode with him.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

He didn't say he was being uncooperative.

"You know he seems like a really nice gentleman. He’s got some health issues and some memory issues so…to say to the best of his ability has he always been real clear with us? No. Um...I think he struggles, um…but I can’t say that he’s being deceitful. I just think he struggles with his memory."

Bowerman: He struggles with remembering certain things, and I think he gets frustrated quicker. You ask him something and sometimes he’ll say, “Yeah, maybe that’s what happened,” because he doesn’t truly remember. I can’t say his stories have been inconsistent. He just hasn’t been as knowledgable and forthcoming as the parents. The parents have been very forthcoming. I just don’t think it’s been truthful information.
Dee10 #301

I searched for something with "being ornery" - didn't find it.

 

[Rayemonde]

Not to mention, where they were help was not going to arrive quickly. I also find it odd that VDK didn't even attempt to call initially because he stated he had only 1 bar of service. I mean, I'd give it a shot !

*If they found Deorr (assuming accidental death) within 5-10 minutes of searching, another hour is a long time to decide what to do. IMO

Exactly... When a toddler could die in minutes in the water, you don't stop searching to haul off looking for signal... You at least try to call whilst you're still running around looking and calling for your kid.

So I wonder... If the timeline is correct and Deorr was indeed at the campsite after the trip to the store, then how far could Vernal have gotten when he hauled off down the road? And have LE done any searches to cover that area?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Instead of getting frustrated, I am just going to ask, does anyone have any proof or even any information saying that the parents have been truthful and that their stories have been consistently consistent?

Not from any of the investigators.

 

[kammiemc]

One bar will get you connected if you stay put long enough to finish the call.

Right? I still have this feeling that DK's 911 run is an important piece of this puzzle. I know nothing much about speech analysis except watching a video, but the fact that DK over-explained why he hauled up the road to make the call three times in that interview with Nate (without being asked about it even once) and that he felt "blessed" that JM's call went through, just sends off alarm bells that he is being less than truthful. Aka lying.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Bowerman: He struggles with remembering certain things, and I think he gets frustrated quicker. You ask him something and sometimes he’ll say, “Yeah, maybe that’s what happened,” because he doesn’t truly remember. I can’t say his stories have been inconsistent. He just hasn’t been as knowledgable and forthcoming as the parents. The parents have been very forthcoming. I just don’t think it’s been truthful information.
Dee10 #301

I searched for something with "being ornery" - didn't find it.

He hasn't been "forthcoming" is a suspicious term to me.

 

[desert-blue]

As a parent, my initial thought would have been that he wandered off and got lost. However, I cannot imagine allowing for a child to get too far before I sounded a major alarm. But, I would have immediately headed for any nearby water. The water has all been thoroughly searched to no avail.

My next thought would be the stranger in the group and I too would go slightly mad until all aspects of that theory were exhaustedly investigated. That person would not have a chance to wander off for an hour. I would be hyperconscious of everybody's behavior.

If my child disappeared at a campground...I'm afraid I would be living there and using every possible momemt to search myself. I would not be deterred by LE or weather...I just would not be capable of functioning at home or in reality. I know that something like that is stronger than me....and I would effectively be lost with my child.

If I believed my child had been abducted, I would use media to the fullest in hopes of helping my plight to find him/her. In my mind, LE would be a tool but I would conducting my own investigation and pursuing any possible thread. I have not felt that the parents have committed themselves in the way a parent should. They have battled against media exposure, waged petty sm wars, and continually focused on their egos. Persusing Facebook is not going to help them find their child so perhaps getting off SM unless its productive and utilizing time and resources wisely would aid them. But, I lean toward thinking they are involved. No I dont believe they would cover for another individual. They seem far too self centered.

I find this case bizarre. Period. The behavior is likewise bizarre and I can imagine a few reasons for that.

Finally, I have always been confused by their strong reaction to the black truck sighting. I reasoned much like you that it was likely a different black truck and maybe since abduction is on the table it should be investigated and embraced as a possible sighting. Like everything else, it's bizarre and illogical. Much like the assertion that somebody did this to them. A comment that was made in the same initial interview. That struck me as insanely paranoid and self centered since its DeOrr who is the victim not them.

Jmo and responses to some of your thougts.
Time for sleep.

I completely agree with your thoughts...

I wanted to add that if I believed my grandchild was abducted, I think the bolded part would apply as well....