ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #19

[Rayemonde]

Sorry Mickshawn, I am way behind and someone might have answered already but thought you would like this link anyway. I was trying to find a definitive response on line and guess what I found on WS!! This is a great answer from Oriah with a slap by sarx

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-152258.html
Oriah
10-22-2011, 08:33 AM
Adding this post over here, so as to try and keep the threads clean.
So how soon can a cadaver dog make a hit?
I always thought it was around an hour after death but have no idea where I heard it. I had a friend use her dogs during an earthquake so maybe from her.>
Decomp scent begins the moment a person dies. But there is a 'window' of confusion (in scent discrimination) when a scent trail turns to decomp. So for example- I go missing. A trailing dog is given my pillowcase as a scent article. That dog is trained to scent on ME (using scent particles). Then it turns out that I'm probably deceased. My other pillowcase is given as a scent article. THAT dog (a different dog) is now scenting off of the same particles, but it has been trained as an HRD dog.
At what time an HRD dog is able to accurately alert on a specific decomp scent depends almost entirely on what kind of training they have had.

One dog may be trained to detect decomp from chemical changes inside the body. One dog may be trained to detect gasses produced during decomp, and released from the body. And just to complicate further lol- one dog may be trained to detect cell(s) that have decomposed to a specific age and are unique to an individual. HTH.

(sarx is gonna slap me.)

Well, that is very interesting, since SB said that some of the dogs had made hits, but then the other dogs failed to verify those hits...

 

[neesaki]

Yeah, he might have not been able to WALK outside the radius, but he could DRIVE. That could be a quick headstart if it was decided he needed to hide the body before searchers got there...I'm starting to get a little wary about IR.

Was IR driving? I thought about this as well, but didn't think he was driving or had a vehicle. TIA

 

[Rayemonde]

IMO this rumour about IR going "missing" for an hour was spread by the suspects. So I don't give it much credence, since they have a vested interest in making IR look suspicious.

I think the parents would have noticed noticed if one of their vehicles had gone missing for an hour. And I think it would be pretty difficult to carry a body on a bicycle, especially on that rough terrain.

 

[giagreen]

It kind of bothers me only DK got a lawyer.



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[lifeisahighway]

I just have a random comment. I've thought about this a lot. If my kid was missing in the campground I could not haul off down the road in my truck. I would be so scared that my kid would be in the road from somewhere or walk into the road and I would hit him. If I did any driving I would be driving very slowly.

 

[scmom]

It kind of bothers me only DK got a lawyer.



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Why do you think neither GP or JM have hired lawyers?

 

[Cricket99]

Joining

 

[Rayemonde]

JMO but I think the statements made by Vernal's lawyer has just made him look worse. JM has done the smarter thing by remaining silent and not attempting to publically clear herself since being named a suspect.

 

[Beezneez]

It kind of bothers me only DK got a lawyer.


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It bothers me quite a bit. I completely understand why the same lawyer isn't representing both Vernal & Jessica. It makes me feel that for some reason they feel LE is focusing more on DK? Who knows. Hopefully LE has enough up their sleeves that it doesn't matter anymore & everyone who so much as sniffed at that child incorrectly is going down for prosecution.

 

[giagreen]

Why do you think neither GP or JM have hired lawyers?

I have no idea. But it does bother me.

Seems like either he is guilty or gonna turn on Jm. Or only thinks of him self and it's all about him. Or maybe they really did split up.


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[TeaTime]

Well, folks, we are left with IR seeing Baby DeOrr after they all returned from Leadore to the campsite which is exactly where we started. We know nothing new unless you were convinced the parents were straight forward and 100% truthful with LE.

There was no 'toddler' exchange and there is no reason to believe that IR didn't see DeOrr. He has no reason to say he did if he didn't.

JM says they got back around 1:10pm, IR has no way to dispute the time but even if it was 1:30pm, he still saw the baby.

No one saw the baby walk towards the creek, this was something GGP assumed when he noticed the baby was not at the campsite after turning his sight from the baby for 4 minutes (time reported by his daughter).

We are told they walked 50 yards from the campsite, looked at the creek and returned in 10 minutes. 20 minute search and then the 911 calls at 2:30pm-ish.

What was going on between the time they arrived back at the campsite (1:10pm - or even 1:30pm) and the time they went for their walk (2:00pm)? This seems to be the only time that anything could have happened that involved the parent(s) in any way.

 

[Beezneez]

Here is something I have thought about a lot today, are we helping or hindering the active investigation? By having such a public hashing out of the details are we contributing to a tainted jury pool? Are suspects/POI/people reading here & taking notes for their next move? Are we inadvertently tipping LE hand by speculating on investigative strategy? I'm not saying I think anything one way or another, I see the benefits as well as the drawbacks. It's just something that is in my mind.

 

[giagreen]

It bothers me quite a bit. I completely understand why the same lawyer isn't representing both Vernal & Jessica. It makes me feel that for some reason they feel LE is focusing more on DK? Who knows. Hopefully LE has enough up their sleeves that it doesn't matter anymore & everyone who so much as sniffed at that child incorrectly is going down for prosecution.

So much as sniffed at that child incorrectly. Never heard it put that way before but I loved it. Lol made me laugh.

I think maybe he thinks jm will cave. Idk

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[Deleted member 102539]

It bothers me quite a bit. I completely understand why the same lawyer isn't representing both Vernal & Jessica. It makes me feel that for some reason they feel LE is focusing more on DK? Who knows. Hopefully LE has enough up their sleeves that it doesn't matter anymore & everyone who so much as sniffed at that child incorrectly is going down for prosecution.

Perhaps HE lawyered up because SHE will accuse him?
I'm following another murder (triple) on WS: Merritt + Fattore are charged, victims are a whole family, Merritt's ex-husband, her ex-FIL, her ex-MIL. Merritt's new partner lawyered up, she didn't. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ne-Mississauga-home-and-a-mystery-**ARRESTS**

 

[minnermomma]

I have to agree on the 911 call that there's no detectable sense of urgency.

What I heard sounded more like resignation and grief. I also think I hear Jessica crying softly in the background when she wasn't talking. Did anyone else hear that? :cry:

I heard that too and thought the same ..seemed like a hopeless crying instead of desperation to me MOO

 

[haven71]

Well, I brought it up and I promise I am not a suspect. lol

The discussion about it stemmed from a statement issued by Klein, kinda like that's part of their investigation, but alluding to it perhaps not being a rumor. Then someone else posted helpful links where SB clarified that IR was gone for an hour and in that hour he was searching.

And I proposed that IR could've driven, licensed or not (no traffic laws needed) outside the perimeter, but as I clarified he could've been "assigned" the task of disposing the body. So if that were the case then he would likely be driving Deorr's truck with Deorr's knowledge.

Anything is possible. I'm beginning to get a little wary of IR, myself.

IMO this rumour about IR going "missing" for an hour was spread by the suspects. So I don't give it much credence, since they have a vested interest in making IR look suspicious.

I think the parents would have noticed noticed if one of their vehicles had gone missing for an hour. And I think it would be pretty difficult to carry a body on a bicycle, especially on that rough terrain.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Well, folks, we are left with IR seeing Baby DeOrr after they all returned from Leadore to the campsite which is exactly where we started. We know nothing new unless you were convinced the parents were straight forward and 100% truthful with LE.

There was no 'toddler' exchange and there is no reason to believe that IR didn't see DeOrr. He has no reason to say he did if he didn't.

JM says they got back around 1:10pm, IR has no way to dispute the time but even if it was 1:30pm, he still saw the baby.

No one saw the baby walk towards the creek, this was something GGP assumed when he noticed the baby was not at the campsite after turning his sight from the baby for 4 minutes (time reported by his daughter).

We are told they walked 50 yards from the campsite, looked at the creek and returned in 10 minutes. 20 minute search and then the 911 calls at 2:30pm-ish.

What was going on between the time they arrived back at the campsite (1:10pm - or even 1:30pm) and the time they went for their walk (2:00pm)? This seems to be the only time that anything could have happened that involved the parent(s) in any way.

I don't believe it myself, but were there 2 rides to Leadore and IR didn't lie when he said, after Leadore - meaning the first ride - he saw little Deorr?

 

[haven71]

Raymonde:

Please refer to posts 159,171,178,179, and 198.

My words have been totally twisted around and I feel like I am being mocked. There were statements pertaining to this "one hour" by both Klein and Bowerman. I didn't just make it up out of thin air.

<modsnip>

 

[Sleuth YaYa]

Posted by OakingtonAve...The one overriding factor in all of this, IMO, is panic. Panic, either as a result of an accident that became fatal, or a premeditated act, has set in place a series of events so messy, so haphazard, so illogical, with clearly so little collusion, that however much we try to dissect the information we have been given, however hard we try to look into their phraseology, the timeline, the witnesses, or lack thereof, the fact remains that SOMETHING out there happened - something that threw these parents into a tailspin of such epic proportions that pure, unadulterated panic was the driving force, setting in motion a series of events intrinsically linked but somehow so random that we are left shaking our heads in bewilderment.

I have no doubt whatsoever they know exactly what happened out there - and know where baby DeOrr is.

I think she will eventually cave and we will learn the missing pieces of the puzzle.


This is like one of those dot to dot number puzzles we all did as kids, and the picture ended up being a beautiful butterfly, except this one turns out to be a hyena.

 

[kammiemc]

I heard that too and thought the same ..seemed like a hopeless crying instead of desperation to me MOO

My first impression when I heard the 911 call is that she sounded more annoyed than panicked.


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