ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #19

[neesaki]

Klein was paid 20K with donations from the public to find DeOrr. A family member (not DK or JM) signed the contract. It is a bit of an odd arrangement, but since the parents have always maintained their innocence, it would have seemed suspicious for the family to have turned down hiring a PI who is known for finding missing children, especially when it cost them nothing. Klein himself has stated that his real client is DeOrr.

ETA: I had my doubts about Klein when he was first hired - I thought, like you, that he might side with the family, regardless of his findings. However, it seems that he has independently come to the same conclusion as LE: that the parents know what happened. He may have an agenda and an ego, but I do feel that he is working hard to find answers to explain what happened to DeOrr, and I respect that.

As long as his focus is on finding Deorr and getting justice, I'm with you on that. I could care less about how much ego he may have or not which is beside the point, imo.

Maybe he sees using SM as a reverse strategy of sorts since according to LE it has been more or less a negative in the case. So why not use it to advantage by squelching some of the over-speculation, while at the same time turning up the heat on the suspects and POI's.

I'm sure some will disagree, but I have the impression this is somewhat of a coordinated effort between Klein and LE. I know initially that SB stated he hadn't spoken to Klein, though IIRC this has recently changed. And Klein had already been communicating with the agencies in IF. I truly don't believe he would be releasing any information LE doesn't want him to release, or that he would do anything to jeopardize the outcome of this investigation. And I believe him when he says he will stay in this until he finds this precious child. jmho

 

[bluesneakers]

On Page 48 of this thread, second question down. A commenter stated DeOrr wore a Size 5 and the boots were a Size 7. Klein answered saying the boots were three sizes too big. If he counts 5, 6, 7 - he "could" be referring to three sizes.

It sounds like Klein had three sizes information and the commenter had the specifics, so how did the commenter know what size he wore and what size the boots were?

 

[giagreen]

She was pretty sure that DeOrr wasn't up there. I wonder if she saw him Thursday night (or didn't see him...).

"I don't think he's up there." "It's so rural up there and the drive up there. No one would be going up there to look for a kid to kidnap. They just wouldn't drive up. You wouldn't want to go up there. The road is horrible."

"There's been a lot of people up there. A lot, a lot, a lot of people. Even after the search was don't there's been people," Cox said.
"I think he would have been found if he was. Don't you?"


http://www.localnews8.com/news/onemonth-mark-of-the-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34638970

It doesn't make sense that she was pretty sure that DeOrr wasn't up there. I mean if she was sure that nobody would go up there to kidnap him then where did she think he was at that time and why?

 

[Dee10]

Yes, maybe that's his reasoning - because the question didn't include any information on DeOrr? One to four (we don't know how many) adults going into a restaurant in and of itself is not criminal. We've been told all along about the trip to the Stage Stop, though. It's weird this stop hasn't been mentioned before, but maybe they are certain that DeOrr disappeared after this stop. It still seems like an important part of the timeline, though, especially to know if DeOrr was seen and if so, whether he was in good condition, etc. It's a bit confusing....

ETA: it's been said they arrived at 9:30 PM Thursday evening - does that mean they arrived in Leadore or at the campground? I wonder when the Silver Dollar stops serving food because Bowerman said they tried to buy food (unsuccessfully, would be the assumption). I'm just trying to figure out the timing as to whether DeOrr would likely have been awake or asleep...

My guess is at the campground. Took them along time to get there is seems.

SB: You know I know Bonneville County detectives have followed up on that particular aspect of the investigation, but to the best of my knowledge, from the time that they left Idaho Falls on July 9th which was in the early afternoon or early evening, uh, you know we have not had a confirmation-- an absolute 100% positive, that someone saw Deorr, but you know I still feel that he was at the campsite.

 

[Dee10]

It sounds like Klein had three sizes information and the commenter had the specifics, so how did the commenter know what size he wore and what size the boots were?

The commentor said the Grandmother and she "believed" she stated those sizes but it was a month ago. To me it's a rumor at best.

 

[giagreen]

I don't even understand Klein's response!

I took it as that is something that had happen before he thinks DeOrr went missing?

 

[relay]

According to google...as of today here are the hours for Silver dollar restaurant Hours:
Sun 8:00 am - 6:00 pm
Mon - Thu 8:00 am - 8:00 pm
Fri - Sat 8:00 am - 1:00 am

When I searched summer hours, this is what google gave me:
Silver Dollar Bar & Restaurant  
Bar
Address: 205 S Railroad St, Leadore, ID 83464
Phone208) 768-2688
Hours:
Wednesday 11AM–12AM
Thursday 11AM–12AM
Friday 11AM–2AM
Saturday 11AM–2AM
Sunday 11AM–12AM
Monday 11AM–12AM
Tuesday 11AM–12AM

So now I don't know..

Thanks SweetT! This means to me that chances are greater that they went in or at the very least may have been seen by one or more witnesses--if in fact they were there as Klein stated.

 

[kammiemc]

Thanks SweetT! This means to me that chances are greater that they went in or at the very least may have been seen by one or more witnesses--if in fact they were there as Klein stated.

It's a little weird that LE never mentioned this stop and even said that there were no stops other than for diesel and the Stage Stop. Didn't Klein say something about this stop having nothing to do with prosecution or something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Arnie M]

.

FACT: ... A 3 year old will slip their feet into mothers size 8 high heel shoes and clomp all over the house for hours without missing a beat

FICTION: ... DeOrr's Cowboy boot size is related to his disappearance

FACT: ... DeOrr's Cowboy boot size is only relevant if he was physically picked up . They may have fallen off. But if an adult was around the boots would be picked up.

FACT: ... If DeOrr was crawling his boots could have slipped off . But he would have put them back on . It has been reported that he loved those boots

FACT: ... If an animal eventually dragged the body , chances are boots would be left behind . To this day no boots have been found. <modsnip>

.

 

[haven71]

Did Klein answer more questions today or something?

I think Klein is trying to win a popularity contest to gain business. I think he's picking and choosing answers and statements to get everyone roped in and speculating and questioning things. Look at what he's done for speculation today. He's caused all the nitwits (his word not mine!) to speculate on everything and then comes back and chastises everyone for speculating and starting rumors. I certainly don't blame IR's lawyer for keeping IR away from him.

 

[desert-blue]

According to google...as of today here are the hours for Silver dollar restaurant Hours:
Sun 8:00 am - 6:00 pm
Mon - Thu 8:00 am - 8:00 pm
Fri - Sat 8:00 am - 1:00 am

When I searched summer hours, this is what google gave me:
Silver Dollar Bar & Restaurant &#8195;
Bar
Address: 205 S Railroad St, Leadore, ID 83464
Phone208) 768-2688
Hours:
Wednesday 11AM&#8211;12AM
Thursday 11AM&#8211;12AM
Friday 11AM&#8211;2AM
Saturday 11AM&#8211;2AM
Sunday 11AM&#8211;12AM
Monday 11AM&#8211;12AM
Tuesday 11AM&#8211;12AM

So now I don't know..

I suspect they probably shut down the kitchen, even in the summer, by 9:00, or even 8 or 8:30, on weekdays. But, the bar area would still be open. However, children are not allowed in the bar if it's drinking only (i.e. food isn't being served).

 

[haven71]

Yes, he did say that. The whole going to the restaurant/bar confounds me. If Deorr wasn't there, that would be a big problem (omission from parents, or validated by witnesses). So I'm thinking he must have been with them. I wonder if all 4 POI's were there plus Deorr?

I've also thought that he was possibly left alone at the campsite while they went for a few beers. Something could have happened them. But like I said, I think Deorr must've been at the restaurant.

It's a little weird that LE never mentioned this stop and even said that there were no stops other than for diesel and the Stage Stop. Didn't Klein say something about this stop having nothing to do with prosecution or something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Arnie M]

.

FACT: .... July 2015 DeOrr went missing and nobody has been able to find him

FACT: ... 30 or so mainstream news articles and TV stations have reported the disappearance , some reports contained a few errors , which is typical , and to be expected

THE JOKERS WENT WILD: .... 500 posts on Facebook , afternoon talk shows , 19,000 comments on social media , 1000 comments on news sites ...

ZILCH ... has been accomplished by all of that

ONE FACT REMAINS INTACT : .... July 2015 DeOrr went missing and nobody has been able to find him

.

 

[desert-blue]

It's a little weird that LE never mentioned this stop and even said that there were no stops other than for diesel and the Stage Stop. Didn't Klein say something about this stop having nothing to do with prosecution or something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm wondering if Penner omitted it because he didn't want speculation that they had been drinking? LE was trying to calm down the public and social media at the time, IIRC. Saying that they stopped off at a bar might not have helped...

 

[haven71]

We don't know for sure if his boot size is related to his disappearance. I think it's highly unlikely, but there could have been important clues had a boot been found, i.e. his boot got caught on something and his foot easily slipped out. Or how far he could actually walk in such oversized boots without losing them.

His cowboy boot size IS relevant. He could somehow curl his toes to grip the boots, or put his legs at a certain angle so they wouldn't fall off. Also, I believe JM in the unedited version of the first interview said that he can walk out of them.

He wouldn't necessarily put one or both back on if they fell off. I don't think it's a case of "I'm gonna put my boot back on because I love it so much." The boots could've felt like a hindrance to him if he was trying to get somewhere quickly, even if it hurt his little feet.

.

FACT: ... A 3 year old will slip their feet into mothers size 8 high heel shoes and clomp all over the house for hours without missing a beat

FICTION: ... DeOrr's Cowboy boot size is related to his disappearance

FACT: ... DeOrr's Cowboy boot size is only relevant if he was physically picked up . They may have fallen off. But if an adult was around the boots would be picked up.

FACT: ... If DeOrr was crawling his boots could have slipped off . But he would have put them back on . It has been reported that he loved those boots

FACT: ... If an animal eventually dragged the body , chances are boots would be left behind . To this day no boots have been found. DeOrr likely died with his boots on.

.

 

[TeaTime]

It is reported that they were at the Stage Stop on Thursday, the same day of the rumored filthy, bawling baby sighting. Hmmm. It is reported that they tried to buy food there and the SS closes at midnight on Thursdays during the summer. Hmmm. It is reported that they arrived at the campsite at 9:30pm Thursday night.

Did they go to the campsite first, then get to the SS too late Friday night to buy food? Did they stop at the SS on the way to the campsite? If so, why couldn't they buy food?

Where they at the bar drinking? If so, who was there? Where was DeOrr Thursday night? Was he at the campsite asleep with GGP or in the truck while his parents were in the bar?

Who can verify that DeOrr was alive at 8am Friday? Why is this the start of the timeline when for all we know, they were all at the campsite doing camping stuff until about 11:00am when they left for the trip to Leadore.

 

[bessie]

Please continue at Thread #20.

This thread will close in 10 minutes.

 

[desert-blue]

It is reported that they were at the Stage Stop on Thursday, the same day of the rumored filthy, bawling baby sighting. Hmmm. It is reported that they tried to buy food there and the SS closes at midnight on Thursdays during the summer. Hmmm. It is reported that they arrived at the campsite at 9:30pm Thursday night.

Did they go to the campsite first, then get to the SS too late Friday night to buy food? Did they stop at the SS on the way to the campsite? If so, why couldn't they buy food?

Where they at the bar drinking? If so, who was there? Where was DeOrr Thursday night? Was he at the campsite asleep with GGP or in the truck while his parents were in the bar?

Who can verify that DeOrr was alive at 8am Friday? Why is this the start of the timeline when for all we know, they were all at the campsite doing camping stuff until about 11:00am when they left for the trip to Leadore.

Just to clarify, it has been reported that they were at the Silver Dollar, not the Stage Stop, on Thursday. The Silver Dollar is supposedly open until midnight, but we don't know how late they serve food..

 

[relay]

It's a little weird that LE never mentioned this stop and even said that there were no stops other than for diesel and the Stage Stop. Didn't Klein say something about this stop having nothing to do with prosecution or something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What you just noted is why I question Klein's meaning of "any, or all" and why I question whether or not it is fact that the four were at the restaurant Thursday night. But, I do not recall if Klein noted that the 4 adults being at that restaurant that night was important for the prosecution. Sorry . If all four were there that night and Deorr wasn't, then I wonder where he was, and if one or more adults were there then who was with Deorr and where were they? It may not be important, but who knows? There is enough I cannot accept as fact that I am open-minded to most scenarios; albeit, I am leaning more towards foul play followed by a cover-up .

 

[Midge Montana]

.

FACT: .... July 2015 DeOrr went missing and nobody has been able to find him

FACT: ... 30 or so mainstream news articles and TV stations have reported the disappearance , some reports contained a few errors , which is typical , and to be expected

THE JOKERS WENT WILD: .... 500 posts on Facebook , afternoon talk shows , 19,000 comments on social media , 1000 comments on news sites ...

ZILCH ... has been accomplished by all of that

ONE FACT REMAINS INTACT : .... July 2015 DeOrr went missing and nobody has been able to find him

.

So true...I sure wish his parents would be 100% truthful. THAT just might help to find him.