ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[GoBison]

Can anyone direct me to a link that identifies the Great Grand Dad's friend as Male? The collective has assumed this friend is Male and suspicious. Some have also inserted their thoughts that the "friend" may have been a care giver of the Great Grand Father. I am just wondering how some came to this conclusion. Has LE or family confirmed the sex of this friend. (media is not a "confirmed" source)

At the end of the day... this little guys parents are going to have to go home without their precious boy at some point. I have already made a point about reasons why one would drive up to get a better signal (not many know a call to 911 is priority due to technological advances) All we know at this point... is this little guy is not where he should be. You can link to maps and media sources forever and a day, speculate, and play the finger pointing game in circles. If LE is confident this little guys family has been cleared, so am I. LE put their hearts into this search and it was the most thorough and the most technological advanced search I have seen so far. That is all I have to say on this before I offend a bunch of people. ((HUGS))

 

[TeganJeff]

I don't think there is a link. I think people just read it incorrectly. He meant that he didn't know when it would be released to the public or if it would.

That's kinda what I was gettin' at. [emoji6]


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[Voice4theSilent]

I know they have searched and searched and searched that area but I still think, absent any bombshell information we aren't privy to, that there is a good chance he is out there. I know several people have brought this up already but we here on WS have all seen numerous cases in which someone was found in an area well after the area had been thoroughly searched. Brings me back to the missing Sally Estabrook who was camping with her husband in San Diego County in California last fall and walked off when her husband was showering/napping. Several Hundred LE and SAR searched high and low for her (we were there shortly after she went missing and saw all of the searchers.) They had people on horseback and helicopters, etc. Nearly two months later when people were still searching (including her husband who would come back to search for her every week) she was found deceased about a quarter mile away from the campground, in an area that had previously been searched. I hope they continue searching for this precious boy. From what we have to go on, I think he is out there somewhere.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Well that's kind of weird to me, him saying the he doesn't know when or if the results of parent's polygraph tests will be released. If the results showed no evidence of lying or reason to believe parents had any knowledge of or participation in the disappearance of their little boy, what would be the big deal in saying they passed their poly tests?

From your link:

The sheriff also stated that at this time he does not consider the parents to be suspects in the child's disappearance. He confirmed they did take a polygraph test but didn't know when or if the results of the test would be released to the public.

 

[Elainera]

I know they have searched and searched and searched that area but I still think, absent any bombshell information we aren't privy to, that there is a good chance he is out there. I know several people have brought this up already but we here on WS have all seen numerous cases in which someone was found in an area well after the area had been thoroughly searched. Brings me back to the missing Sally Estabrook who was camping with her husband in San Diego County in California last fall and walked off when her husband was showering/napping. Several Hundred LE and SAR searched high and low for her (we were there shortly after she went missing and saw all of the searchers.) They had people on horseback and helicopters, etc. Nearly two months later when people were still searching (including her husband who would come back to search for her every week) she was found deceased about a quarter mile away from the campground, in an area that had previously been searched. I hope they continue searching for this precious boy. From what we have to go on, I think he is out there somewhere.

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[katydid23]

Well that's kind of weird to me, him saying the he doesn't know when or if the results of parent's polygraph tests will be released. If the results showed no evidence of lying or reason to believe parents had any knowledge of or participation in the disappearance of their little boy, what would be the big deal in saying they passed their poly tests?

But what if one or both are 'inconclusive?' That is like opening a :worms:

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

Would locals know about mine shafts in the immediate area??
mine shaft
noun
noun: mineshaft

• a deep narrow vertical hole, or sometimes a horizontal tunnel, that gives access to a mine.

According to maps I've been scouring
http://www.idahogeology.org/webmap/?show=mines
http://www.us-mining.com/idaho/leadore
there are no known mines in the immediate area. There are at least three known mine entrances within about four miles (as the crow flies) of the area. According to the idaho geology site, "Thousands of mines and prospects have closed in the course of over a century of mining in the state. Most of these are abandonments that occurred before responsible site reclamation. The locations of many are remembered today; others are long forgotten. "

I don't know anything about mines, but have been hoping someone with some knowledge could chime in -- is it possible (or unlikely?) a small hole in the ground might lead to a horizontal tunnel or air vent or something? Maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but it seems like the ground just swallowed baby Deorr up. Sorry to write that. This whole thing's got to be horrible for the people who love him.

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

I will say this again. As someone who comes from an area with mines, the mines on the map were close enough that it is possible that there would be ventilation shafts or other openings.

Oh my goodness, thank you for saying that. As I've said, I know nothing about it, but it's the one thing I keep coming back to. I know a two-and-a-half-year-old boy well, and if he had a mind to, he would just start off through the underbrush with no regard for trees or brush or boulders. A thorough search by an adult on horseback or even on foot could miss a small hole in the ground covered by grasses/brush or whatever kind of ground covering is in Idaho. Anyway, until the poor baby is found, I think I'm going to have to duck out on this one. I get too emotionally involved, and I can't handle it. I will NEVER forget Deorr. Please, those of you who can handle it, please keep searching and asking questions!

 

[LookingForClues]

(stands up, brushes self off)

Woooh, that was a pretty deep rabbit hole. So glad I made it out! Did the rest of you make it out with me?! :facepalm: :gaah:

 

[Sve]

Searchers surely would have come upon mineshafts, no?

Not necessarily. Vent shafts, especially older ones can be fairly small in diameter and are not sways mapped well. I'm not familiar with the geology of Idaho but have done a lit of mapping work in the mountains of wv, and there are a lot of holes that lead to the mines, some man made, but some also just natural holes that formed when the ground starts to cave in to the underground mines. I have twisted my ankle in many of them, and have even fallen in almost waist deep.

I could definitely see this being the cause of his disappearance.

 

[Hatfield]

This was posted earlier but seems so mind blowing to me.

Cadaver dogs led law enforcement directly to the reservoir but Bowerman said unrelated cremated remains dumped into the water during the search likely prompted the canines' interest. A search of the reservoir using advanced sonar equipment yielded nothing, he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

If the cremains were dumped at the spillway/dam of the reservoir then the cremains would float down that creek and contaminate the whole creek all the way down to the campsite.

I am curious where exactly the cremains were spread or sprinkled.

 

[Sve]

Iirc when looking at the map the mines are nowhere near the campground.

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Mines can travel miles and miles underground with vent shafts and natural occurring holes along the way.

 

[Hatfield]

I will say this again. As someone who comes from an area with mines, the mines on the map were close enough that it is possible that there would be ventilation shafts or other openings.

I tend to agree that there could have been a locally known cave or mine or deep well that was in the area. Even if that place was not overrun with mines it is possible there was a certain one that was in that area and locals may know it is there.

There was a certain place in another state that people would camp at because it had a unique cave that only the locals knew about. Everyone who camped there would venture into the woods to visit the cave because it was so neat to see.

The point being is this place could have had something like a mine shaft or a cave or a deep boarded up well or something interesting that only few knew about. By word of mouth it gets around.

 

[4senthia]

All we have been told is that the dogs were led in the wrong direction by cremains that were dumped during the search.
As far as little Deorr having become stuck in any hole including a mine vent, wouldn't the dogs have followed that scent while working the woods?
According to LE several types of specialized dogs were used. Helicopters using FLIR and many other search techniques were used. To the point the sheriff no longer believes the child is there. He said they tore that country up.
I hope you guys are right in many ways, but I want to keep the hope that Deorr is still alive, however slim.
If he's stuck in a hole, under a rock, etc. then he is surely deceased.
jmho

 

[Penelope]

Can everybody please sort these possible scenarios from Most Likely to Least Likely, according to what they believe?

I think:

1. Fell and drowned in the water (creek or reservoir)
4. Wandered off and fell into a mineshaft or some kind of hole
5. Stranger abduction
2. Wandered off and got taken by a large animal (bear, lion, wolf)
3. Wandered off and succumbed to the elements
6. any other scenario


So how would you sort them?

Here's how I would sort them:

1. Fell and drowned in the water (creek or reservoir)
2. Wandered off and fell into a mineshaft or some kind of hole
3. Stranger abduction (possibility includes Sasquatch)
4. Wandered off and succumbed to the elements
5. Wandered off and got taken by a large animal (bear, lion, wolf)
6. any other scenario

 

[Roselvr]

Here's how I would sort them:

1. Fell and drowned in the water (creek or reservoir)
2. Wandered off and fell into a mineshaft or some kind of hole
3. Stranger abduction (possibility includes Sasquatch)
4. Wandered off and succumbed to the elements
5. Wandered off and got taken by a large animal (bear, lion, wolf)
6. any other scenario

Been watching Finding Bigfoot; from what people say, there has been a nasty smell associated with sightings

I know they have searched and searched and searched that area but I still think, absent any bombshell information we aren't privy to, that there is a good chance he is out there. I know several people have brought this up already but we here on WS have all seen numerous cases in which someone was found in an area well after the area had been thoroughly searched. Brings me back to the missing Sally Estabrook who was camping with her husband in San Diego County in California last fall and walked off when her husband was showering/napping. Several Hundred LE and SAR searched high and low for her (we were there shortly after she went missing and saw all of the searchers.) They had people on horseback and helicopters, etc. Nearly two months later when people were still searching (including her husband who would come back to search for her every week) she was found deceased about a quarter mile away from the campground, in an area that had previously been searched. I hope they continue searching for this precious boy. From what we have to go on, I think he is out there somewhere.

I'm not confident the dogs they brought in are any good. The bloodhound used to find Autumn Pasquale was really good. I personally can think of 2 cases where bodies were missed in areas that were supposedly searched. Chris Sexton WV missing Oct to Dec 6, 2015 Then Dr Teleka Patrick MI found in the water Spring 2014. I think someone needs to watch for "signs of decomp" (birds/ vultures)

 

[TxJan1971]

Can anyone direct me to a link that identifies the Great Grand Dad's friend as Male? The collective has assumed this friend is Male and suspicious. Some have also inserted their thoughts that the "friend" may have been a care giver of the Great Grand Father. I am just wondering how some came to this conclusion. Has LE or family confirmed the sex of this friend. (media is not a "confirmed" source)

At the end of the day... this little guys parents are going to have to go home without their precious boy at some point. I have already made a point about reasons why one would drive up to get a better signal (not many know a call to 911 is priority due to technological advances) All we know at this point... is this little guy is not where he should be. You can link to maps and media sources forever and a day, speculate, and play the finger pointing game in circles. If LE is confident this little guys family has been cleared, so am I. LE put their hearts into this search and it was the most thorough and the most technological advanced search I have seen so far. That is all I have to say on this before I offend a bunch of people. ((HUGS))

BBM
This is probably where folks are getting and then stating the friend of Great Grandpa is male:

Aired July 16, 2015 - 20:00:00 ET

Note: Nate Eaton News Director and Anchor/Reporter for EastIdahoNews.com.

CASAREZ:

Nate Eaton, who is the grandfather`s friend? Is it a male? Is it a female? I mean, what do we know about them?

EATON: We know very little. We know it is a male. He is a man. And he was there with the grandpa and the parents. Police aren`t saying much about him, other than he is cooperating with their investigation.

We also know the grandpa -- he`s a little older. He has some health issues, and they don`t at this point suspect the grandpa to have anything to do with the disappearance.
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/16/ng.01.html

 

[Trident]

Reminds me of Diane Prevost who went missing in 1966. She was camping with her family, including grandma and grandpa, in Grundy Provincial Park in Ontario. Despite searches, she was never found even though she was last seen a small distance from their campsite playing on the beach. Her father turned around and she was gone.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95818

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I'm seeing a pattern here that I don't quite understand. It seems that MANY parents of missing children; Dennis Martin; Jared Atadero; Diane Prevost; DeOrr Kunz; and probably a host of others, believe their children were abducted.

What I'm trying to say/ask, is this a survival mechanism the parents put into action, or a real belief? If it is a real belief, what is the basis for it?

 

[4senthia]

I agree that someone/s need to watch for signs of decomp, but I would think that wild animals would find it much faster than a human. Especially at night.
Poor Deorr. I don't want to think he is dead.
jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

All we have been told is that the dogs were led in the wrong direction by cremains that were dumped during the search.
As far as little Deorr having become stuck in any hole including a mine vent, wouldn't the dogs have followed that scent while working the woods?
According to LE several types of specialized dogs were used. Helicopters using FLIR and many other search techniques were used. To the point the sheriff no longer believes the child is there. He said they tore that country up.
I hope you guys are right in many ways, but I want to keep the hope that Deorr is still alive, however slim.
If he's stuck in a hole, under a rock, etc. then he is surely deceased.
jmho

Mines can be very, very deep. I don't know what the mines are like in this part of the country, but I went underground earlier this summer in a mine that was 27 levels below ground. I have NO IDEA if the boy is in a shaft, but I'm thinking it's possible that if he were in a shaft, he could be too far below the earth for the dogs to pick up on it.