ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[CoverMeCagney]

The link works and no, it's not linked to any account, other than the We Love You DeOrr Kunz Jr. Thanks for the link, too. I think some of the comments must have been deleted from the original post because they're not there? (or at least I'm not seeing them...) Original post: https://www.facebook.com/bellasfriendsuamc/posts/1688440941411392

I think they've just transcribed the questions that were actually answered, haven't they? And it says it's part 1 so there may be more. I'm not signed up to that group, I found it on a google search, so I can't check.

 

[ClaireNC]

The link works and no, it's not linked to any account, other than the We Love You DeOrr Kunz Jr. Thanks for the link, too. I think some of the comments must have been deleted from the original post because they're not there? (or at least I'm not seeing them...) Original post: https://www.facebook.com/bellasfriendsuamc/posts/1688440941411392

Is there something in particular you are looking for? I think I have most of it in a Word document.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Does anyone remember this question that was asked : Is it true that IR did a factory reset of his phone ? (paraphrased). I think I remember the answer was "no comment". I thought it was in the Klein / Bella's FB Q & A but it's not and I haven't found it anywhere else. I know I didn't just make this up .... TIA

I remember it.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Cell phone reset


Q: Is it true that Isaac did a factory reset on his cell phone before giving to LE?
31 January at 05:06
C: Great question.
15 hrs
C: Even if he did factor reset his phone le can go to the phone company and get his phone records
4 hrs
KIC: We cannot comment on this. It goes to the prosecution side of this case

 

[desert-blue]

Is there something in particular you are looking for? I think I have most of it in a Word document.

No, I was just looking for the question about Isaac resetting his phone. I found the Q & A post from Bella's page but for the life of me I don't see the phone question on there any more. I guess some of the posters must have decided to delete their posts? Some of the questions seem to be gone? Does deleting a comment also delete all the replies? Or maybe I'm just blind...

ETA: I do see the phone question on some of the other links posted, so I'm good with that. Thank you.

 

[ClaireNC]

No, I was just looking for the question about Isaac resetting his phone. I found the Q & A post from Bella's page but for the life of me I don't see the phone question on there any more. I guess some of the posters must have decided to delete their posts? Some of the questions seem to be gone? Does deleting a comment also delete all the replies? Or maybe I'm just blind...

ETA: I do see the phone question on some of the other links posted, so I'm good with that. Thank you.

Yes, all replies are deleted when a comment is deleted on Facebook.

 

[DatelineFan]

It's difficult for me to believe that they have some kind of debt and someone could be holding a live Deorr. That's quite a bit of work to kidnap a toddler and care for them. Even just meeting their basic needs. I don't know if it's likely...

 

[neesaki]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...imber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-19/page48

Cell phone reset

Wait, so Purplepixl already posted the Q & A 's reformatted to this forum ? That question didn't show up in the thread where I took the Q & A's from which was from the one's posted on the thread # 19. I just copied and pasted and then posted to the media thread. Guess I'm a little confused.

ETA: If you already did it Purple, my apologies.

 

[ClaireNC]

It's difficult for me to believe that they have some kind of debt and someone could be holding a live Deorr. That's quite a bit of work to kidnap a toddler and care for them. Even just meeting their basic needs. I don't know if it's likely...

Probably not likely, it's just another theory.

 

[gliving]

Very interesting scenario. I could MAYBE buy this story if there was some drug debt that they had failed to pay...

What is a drug dealer going to do with a toddler to recoup his debt? I'm fascinated that this may be a possible scenario.

I've followed enough cases on WS to know never say never. Too many times I've said, "wow I never saw that coming".

 

[ZooSleuth]

Since when do drug dealers kidnap children over a debt owed? If that was the case here, then where's the ransom note/call?

 

[kammiemc]

Then I don't understand why someone (e.g. SB) hasn't just simply stated it is a unrelated incident that is being/been dealt with. End of story/speculation for me at least.

I thought Bowerman did say they didn't believe it was related way back in the first True Crime Radio inteview mid-Oct.

 

[kammiemc]

I'm not liking the way this thread is going. We've gone from parents are innocent, to POI's, to suspects, to (allegedly) abusers and with very little evidence for the latter. I hope above all things that they are not abusers and if they are not then any accusatory / speculating posts along those lines disappear when the time is right - otherwise it just seems wrong to me.

Meanwhile, a possible scenario just popped into my head that I want to share before I forget (it's late!).

What if DeOrr was kidnapped/abducted for some as yet unknown (but terrible) reason from his home back in Idaho Falls? Then JM & DK went on the camping trip with GGPa & IR with the sole purpose of forging an alibi of little DeOrr "being present at the campsite"? They arrive late Thursday evening and no-one seeing DeOrr could be explained by the hour and "he's sleeping".

Basically, what if they're lying about knowing where DeOrr is because they're being blackmailed by whoever has him?


To me this would explain
1) Why they look somewhat guilty in interviews
2) Why they've been untruthful in their answers to some key polygraph questions
3) Why DeOrr's things were at the campsite (cup, monkey, blanket) and there are traces of him having been in DK's vehicle (which gave the dogs something to hit on) - they made it seem like he was there
4) Why Klein intimated that when the full story breaks it will be shocking (my paraphrasing)
5) Why no-one outside of the 4 can confirm when DeOrr was last seen

:thinking:

I know this "abducted for blackmail or ransom to pay a debt" theory has been floating around since the beginning, but it never resonated with me only because I am not familiar with any cases where children are abducted for money when the family doesn't seem to have money. I'm sure cases exist; I just am not aware of them. I especially wrote it off, along with a bunch of other theories, after LE and Klein pretty much ruled out abduction and the sheriff said he "absolutely" believes that the parents know where there son is, and Klein even said he thinks they know how the child died. It just seems like they have more evidence than they are sharing to make such claims so confidently--especially for a pretty cautious sheriff. Finally, if DeOrr was truly abducted by enemies of the parents, and they wanted their son back, I think there is no way in heck that they would keep that secret and mislead the public for seven months just to avoid drug charges. I don't doubt that it is a possibility that something happened to DeOrr before the trip happened. But I highly doubt there is a possibility that a third party took him or I think we would be dealing with a pretty different response from LE . Those are just my thoughts.

 

[gliving]

I finally found the transcript to Nancy Grace's Bring Them Home for Christmas show. This is recorded right when Klein enters the case, so his part is out-dated. We know he's since changed his opinion. What I found telling was Chief Deputy Penner's part who states no one beside the immediate family ever saw Deorr:

Aired December 24, 2015
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1512/24/ng.01.html

GRACE: With me is Chief Deputy, Steve Pinner, with the County Sheriff`s Office. Chief, thank you so much for being with us.

STEVE PENNER, CHIEF DEPUTY, LEMHI COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Your welcome.

GRACE: Chief Pinner, I`m trying to understand the logistics, the layout of this. So were there other people camping around them?

PENNER: There was some about a quarter mile, actually a little over a half a mile away, at the other end of the reservoir.

GRACE: And I assume that they were talked to and questioned, and anyone even seen little Deorr, other than the immediate family?

PENNER: No.

GRACE: Now you said - earlier Nate Eaton reported that the grandfather was there with a friend. Was that a male or a female friend?

PENNER: That was a male.

GRACE: A male friend; and I assume both of them were questioned. You know, other than the family, had anyone else seen the child?

PENNER: No.

GRACE: How soon after the child goes missing, Chief Penner, do they call 9-1-1?

PENNER: I think it was probably, they looked for a little while, so it was probably close to an hour.

 

[Beezneez]

It's difficult for me to believe that they have some kind of debt and someone could be holding a live Deorr. That's quite a bit of work to kidnap a toddler and care for them. Even just meeting their basic needs. I don't know if it's likely...

I cannot imagine anyone keeping a 2 year old away from his parents in order to punish the parents for some debt. As a parent I would be selling the kidneys of everyone I knew to pay off the debt. There would be no low to far to stoop to raise the money. As for the kidnapper? This may be insensitive but trying to manage someone else's toddler seems like a nightmare. There is nothing that would make me happier than to find out little Deorr has been stowed away with an endless supply of cupcakes & cartoons this whole time, but realistically?

 

[carbuff]

I cannot imagine anyone keeping a 2 year old away from his parents in order to punish the parents for some debt. As a parent I would be selling the kidneys of everyone I knew to pay off the debt. There would be no low to far to stoop to raise the money. As for the kidnapper? This may be insensitive but trying to manage someone else's toddler seems like a nightmare. There is nothing that would make me happier than to find out little Deorr has been stowed away with an endless supply of cupcakes & cartoons this whole time, but realistically?

Slightly O/T: I am reminded of the O. Henry short story "Ransom of Red Chief."

(ETA, and really off topic: which is available on line at http://fiction.eserver.org/short/ransom_of_red_chief.html.)

 

[Beezneez]

Slightly O/T: I am reminded of the short story "Ransom of Red Chief."

I'm not familiar?
ETA- never mind. I was thinking of a case here.

 

[neesaki]

Since when do drug dealers kidnap children over a debt owed? If that was the case here, then where's the ransom note/call?

I agree, I think it might be the wrong road to go down at this point. Maybe changing direction wouldn't be a bad idea, IYKWIM.

 

[J4cknsal1y]

I finally found the transcript to Nancy Grace's Bring Them Home for Christmas show. This is recorded right when Klein enters the case, so his part is out-dated. We know he's since changed his opinion. What I found telling was Chief Deputy Penner's part who states no one beside the immediate family ever saw Deorr:

Aired December 24, 2015
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1512/24/ng.01.html

GRACE: With me is Chief Deputy, Steve Pinner, with the County Sheriff`s Office. Chief, thank you so much for being with us.

STEVE PENNER, CHIEF DEPUTY, LEMHI COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Your welcome.

GRACE: Chief Pinner, I`m trying to understand the logistics, the layout of this. So were there other people camping around them?

PENNER: There was some about a quarter mile, actually a little over a half a mile away, at the other end of the reservoir.

GRACE: And I assume that they were talked to and questioned, and anyone even seen little Deorr, other than the immediate family?

PENNER: No.

GRACE: Now you said - earlier Nate Eaton reported that the grandfather was there with a friend. Was that a male or a female friend?

PENNER: That was a male.

GRACE: A male friend; and I assume both of them were questioned. You know, other than the family, had anyone else seen the child?

PENNER: No.

GRACE: How soon after the child goes missing, Chief Penner, do they call 9-1-1?

PENNER: I think it was probably, they looked for a little while, so it was probably close to an hour.

^BBM

how did I miss this up until now? This whole case has my mind boggled as it is, but this raises many more questions.
-IR is GGP's friend.
It has not been mentioned anywhere that he is related to GGP, JM, VDK or Deorr jr. Has it? I think I am safe to say IR is definitely not immediate family. So was Penner basically saying that, at least two people (IR +
1 or more (I recall there to have been 2) additional campers who were camped about 1/4-1/2 mile + away) were interviewed--who was not immediate family--& at least 2+ people who were interviewed--one of whom was camping right along with GGP, JM, VDK, & presumably little Deorr--had not seen the child???

-I wish we knew if that was being answered in reference to the camping trip as a whole or if it was in reference to a specific time period. I suppose maybe this is part of what Klein meant when he said (paraphrasing) depending on what story you believe in regards to IR's credibility/timeline/when Deorr was last seen by someone other than GGP, JM, &/or VDK.

All imo

 

[Yvettea]

Just let DeOrr guide you. Discovering the truth about what happened with DeOrr is what it's all about. IMO