ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[SoccerMotha]

I thought she looked like a fifteen year old teenager, and mommy and daddy were protecting her, not a twenty five year old adult mother of three, whose Baby was missing. She couldn't look
up (IMO) because she was afraid of what we'd see. Her hair is perfectly coiffed, yet she can't tell the world anything about DeOrr. Where's the Mama Bear we all would turn into if our child was missing.

The above sounds pretty gruff and mean spirited, but that interview really bothered me.

I just watched that interview for the first time and I have to agree with you about Jessica. I wanted to yell at Deorr to stop talking and beg her to be her babies voice, to speak up and beg anyone and everyone to help her find her her child. I guess if you know what happened to him you don't need to do that. I still think whatever happened was some sort of accident that they all felt the need to cover up. I just can't figure what and why! Uh I'm sorry, I would not be protecting ANYONE, myself included! Idk I'll never be able wrap my head around women who call themselves mother's, but don't protect their children. I totally belive in karma and I cannot sleep at night when I'm feeling guilty or anxious, I gotta make things right to have peace. How do they sleep at nignt if they know what's happened and continue to let this play out?!

I've had so many different thoughts about what could have happened and none of them have ever seemed to fit. Now the timeline is either 4 or 61/2-7hrs, so the possibilities are endless. I really pray LE has something, just one little something that is legit. I'm not buying what Klien is selling at the moment, part of me wonders if this is just all a bunch of bologna in conjunction with LE to get someone talking. Who the heck knows anymore?!

I think I need step away for awhile because it's making me cray cray that this innocent little soul is still out there somewhere, seemingly being failed by the two people whom are supposed to love him the most.

All of the above is of course just my opinions and ramblings.

 

[Little Ol Me]

I find many of Mr. Kline's comments and statements confusing.
This one;

Q: I just really want to know how long was his parents gone for when they went for a walk and also did they just wonder of without even asking grandfather to look after baby Deorr
31 January at 08:35

KIC: Your question is under false pretence. The senario you lay out is myth.

Is he talking about the parents' scenario being under false pretense? OR, the question and scenario being under false pretense?
The scenario being, that the parents didn't ask GGPA to look after Deorr.

IMO, it can be seen both ways.

 

[giagreen]

I find many of Mr. Kline's comments and statements confusing.
This one;

Q: I just really want to know how long was his parents gone for when they went for a walk and also did they just wonder of without even asking grandfather to look after baby Deorr
31 January at 08:35

KIC: Your question is under false pretence. The senario you lay out is myth.

Is he talking about the parents' scenario being under false pretense? OR, the question and scenario being under false pretense?
The scenario being, that the parents didn't ask GGPA to look after Deorr.

IMO, it can be seen both ways.

Or maybe he ment they never went for a walk. Until we learned from .SB that they went with IR to check out a fishing spot we were also under that myth that only the parents went for a walk. And also if ggp doesn't remember and if Klein hasn't spoke wwith IR then how did he determine it was a myth?

Idk I really want to like Klein but he just spinning all this into a media frenzy which is so wrong imo




Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

 

[giagreen]

If they left the campsite at 1:30 to go to the creek and returned at about 1:45 or so, talked to GGPA, and then began searching for about 20 minutes (keep in mind the times ALL would have been approximations as far as I'm concerned), their search would have ended "about" 2:10. Now, I might be wrong, but I doubt, given the circumstances, that anyone would quibble about ten minutes, one way or the other.

The thing is, there doesn't really appear to be a discrepancy in the time at all from when they returned from the store, to when they were at the creek and back, to how long they searched, to when they called 911. So many commented about waiting an hour before calling 911, whereas it certainly seems that they actually called after searching for 20 minutes.

I wonder if these are some of the "discrepancies" others refer to, when they aren't discrepancies at all.

A lot of their story and timeline has been so picked over by sm/fb and opinions as facts that it's all most starting to make the parents look credible imho


Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

 

[Tr.]

I'm getting the since that this baby disappeared almost just like Noah Chamberlin did.

The discrepancies in the stories could be the result of two things..fear of being charged with child neglect or endangerment resulting in injury or death...and secondly, not actually knowing all of the facts and trying to manufacture them while protecting each other.

I think that the parents simply left the baby in Grandfathers care while they went off. He watches the boy all the time anyway.
But in doing so, they failed to communicate clearly to Grandfather that he was being left with the baby.
Grandpa is lounging in a chair and goes to sleep... and baby goes for a walk.

Parents return to find Grandpa asleep and no baby. Who's to blame?
They all call 911...and i wouldn't be surprised if grandpa called first.


(modsnip)

Difference here is that the sheriff stated that while he was searching for this Idaho baby there were real wolves and bears moving through the campgrounds and various campsites.
I think this baby could be within a two mile radius of the campsite or maybe a little further if he wondered away and then became prey.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I find many of Mr. Kline's comments and statements confusing.
This one;

Q: I just really want to know how long was his parents gone for when they went for a walk and also did they just wonder of without even asking grandfather to look after baby Deorr
31 January at 08:35

KIC: Your question is under false pretence. The senario you lay out is myth.

Is he talking about the parents' scenario being under false pretense? OR, the question and scenario being under false pretense?
The scenario being, that the parents didn't ask GGPA to look after Deorr.

IMO, it can be seen both ways.

My understanding would be: nothing of the timeline from 8am to 2:22pm is true but a "myth" and therefore no basis for what happened.

What if before Friday GGP at home in M. did unintentionally something with his car/trailer to little Deorr and the 3 adults (family) started their camping tour only to cover up? Maybe IR didn't know the true reason but was invited to go fishing? (Why wasn't he invited in the past but just this time?? Was he suddenly invited or several days before?)

IF everyone is innocent, then to me it is inexplicable why you can't create a reasonable timeline for Thursday: who was where, who did what, who exactly cared for little Deorr and when, which cars/vehicles were on the driveway/in the garage (type, model, colour, VN), where (when) was VDK's business truck parked, when did IR arrive at the family home or was he picked up (when, where), when exactly did 4 adults start with their camping tour, which exactly route did they take with 2 vehicles, shopping food or not (4 adults, 2 vehicles), stopping at the bar or not (4 adults, 2 vehicles), when did they arrive at the campground, what were they doing until bedtime, and so on.
IF one person is guilty to have something done to little Deorr before Friday, why would 3 adults screw up their life to protect the person? This one person will never thank them for their missunderstood loyality and support.

All IMO and only assuming, what could have happened. :moo:
-.-.-.-

I'm now unsure, with whom little Deorr lived: with maternal GGP or paternal GP. I thought GGP but I've just read that:http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

DeOrr’s grandfather says he’s heartbroken over his missing grandson.

“They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy. When he wants to take a nap he'll come up to me and say 'nap papa, nap papa,' so we'd lay down and take a nap. I’m so attached to him. I don't know what I'd do if we lost him. I just can't imagine going day to day without that little boy running around. I’m so sad. I’m just at a loss here.”

 

[Aeronomy]

This is what has been baffling me. It really does seem like all 4 must be culpable otherwise the most innocent would have spilled their guts to LE by now.

I began to think of 1 scenario yesterday where all 4 could feel like they are all somewhat responsible.

Just speculating but lets assume they all decided to stop off at that bar on Thursday night for a few drinks before it closed. And lets assume they decided to leave the baby boy in the car because they wanted to drink. Then lets assume they all drank way too much and on the way back to the campsite none of them was in any condition to drive so they flipped a coin to see who would be the driver. Then lets assume some sort of accident happened that didn't damage the car too much but the driver slammed on the brakes really hard and the baby was not secured and flew frontwards slamming into the windshield resulting in death.

Something like this could have made them all feel somewhat guilty.

But even if something like this happened it seems like the one who was not driving would have came forward by now.

The only other theory I can come up with is some accident near the campfire. But again that would leave some of them not feeling as responsible as the others.

I cannot yet conceive that all 4 of them were involved in purposely harming him. I just cannot go there yet and hope that is not what happened.

This case is a real stumper.

Now you've got me trying to think of a scenario where are all four could feel equally culpable, and the only thing I can come up with has to do with drugs. I can't recall whether or not the sheriff stated if drugs were involved so it may be a moot point. But perhaps one person could have brought the drugs, a second person heavily persuaded the parents it would be okay to give them to DeOrr (to get him to sleep or whatever) and then both parents, thinking it a good idea, decided to do it. If drugs caused his death, the supplier wouldn't utter a word, the persuader (hypothetically, ggpa) would be full of guilt and would feel a need to protect the parents so he wouldn't utter a word, and then the parents who actually gave him the drugs, wouldn't utter a word. (especially if the same drug could be found in their own system as well)

That's the only scenario I can come up with that may prevent any of them from talking. It's also possibly a reason why the parents would rather hide DeOrr's body than face the shame of what they'd done.

I don't know how likely all the above would be, but it's all I can come with in that regard.

 

[Rayemonde]

It seems as though everyone (or at least most everyone) has had that incorrect from the very beginning all the way through and including today!

We debated this at length in earlier threads.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The sweetest little baby boy who had parents from Hell.
Chance Walsh. We have a thread here, and it's completely heartbreaking.

They openly admitted hating him, killed him by shoving baby wipes down his throat and then left him to rot in his cot. Not a single day of true happiness in that baby's lifetime

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

(modsnip)

The post you're referring to was made at 1:47 a.m. e.s.t. So, here's a thought: perhaps the Mods occasionally sleep. Imagine that.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The post you're referring to was made at 1:47 a.m. e.s.t. So, here's a thought: perhaps the Mods occasionally sleep. Imagine that.

Whaaaaat?!?! Mods sleep?!

Part timers :giggle:

 

[pepelepolecat]

I'm getting the since that this baby disappeared almost just like Noah Chamberlin did.

The discrepancies in the stories could be the result of two things..fear of being charged with child neglect or endangerment resulting in injury or death...and secondly, not actually knowing all of the facts and trying to manufacture them while protecting each other.

I think that the parents simply left the baby in Grandfathers care while they went off. He watches the boy all the time anyway.
But in doing so, they failed to communicate clearly to Grandfather that he was being left with the baby.
Grandpa is lounging in a chair and goes to sleep... and baby goes for a walk.

Parents return to find Grandpa asleep and no baby. Who's to blame?
They all call 911...and i wouldn't be surprised if grandpa called first.

(modsnip)

Difference here is that the sheriff stated that while he was searching for this Idaho baby there were real wolves and bears moving through the campgrounds and various campsites.
I think this baby could be within a two mile radius of the campsite or maybe a little further if he wondered away and then became prey.

bbm -- different grandpa. He lived with his paternal grandfather, who presumably watched him at least periodically (We don't know if he was the child's regular caretaker or not). This grandfather was JM's grandfather, so DeOrr's maternal great grandfather.

(just clarifying)

 

[wondering25]

If i was a family member under a cloud of suspicion and i was hiring a PI it would be for the sole purpose of finding alternate evidence that pointed away from me and casts a cloud on other people and other scenarios. i would want that evidence held close to the vest to be used in the defense of me or my family member should a trial occur. I do NOT understand klein being hired by "the family" and then publicly making statements. That goes for Vilt too. if they find themselves in a situation where their investigation points to guilt of the parents, for example.. then just shut up. I hired you to help exonerate me not make things worse.

None of this makes sense to me.

 

[ClaireNC]

My understanding would be: nothing of the timeline from 8am to 2:22pm is true but a "myth" and therefore no basis for what happened.
(snipped for focus)
I'm now unsure, with whom little Deorr lived: with maternal GGP or paternal GP. I thought GGP but I've just read that:http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

DeOrr’s grandfather says he’s heartbroken over his missing grandson.

“They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy. When he wants to take a nap he'll come up to me and say 'nap papa, nap papa,' so we'd lay down and take a nap. I’m so attached to him. I don't know what I'd do if we lost him. I just can't imagine going day to day without that little boy running around. I’m so sad. I’m just at a loss here.”

He lived with his paternal grandfather, who also uses the name Deorr. The great-grandfather on the camping trip is Jessica's grandfather and his initials are RW.

I completely agree with this: nothing of the timeline from 8am to 2:22pm is true but a "myth" and, therefore, no basis for what happened.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I do NOT understand klein being hired by "the family" and then publicly making statements. That goes for Vilt too. if they find themselves in a situation where their investigation points to guilt of the parents, for example.. then just shut up.

Klein is a polarizing PI; there is certainly a wealth of information about his long career in the public arena.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

If i was a family member under a cloud of suspicion and i was hiring a PI it would be for the sole purpose of finding alternate evidence that pointed away from me and casts a cloud on other people and other scenarios. i would want that evidence held close to the vest to be used in the defense of me or my family member should a trial occur. I do NOT understand klein being hired by "the family" and then publicly making statements. That goes for Vilt too. if they find themselves in a situation where their investigation points to guilt of the parents, for example.. then just shut up. I hired you to help exonerate me not make things worse.

None of this makes sense to me.

I'm a bit shocked reading this. I know things are done differently in the US, but what you describe here would surely amount to a crime in the UK for the PI. Even if I'm completely wrong here (PI's aren't really a thing here) it is, at the very least, unbelievably unethical IMO.

As for the make up of the PI contract my complete guess from reading here would be:

Public donations (payed for it)
Deorr Jr (client)
Family member (signed on Deorr's behalf)

 

[giagreen]

They openly admitted hating him, killed him by shoving baby wipes down his throat and then left him to rot in his cot. Not a single day of true happiness in that baby's lifetime

Thanks for totally ruining my day!!! Jk
But that is so freaking horrible. How could anyone hate a baby let alone their own baby...ugh so sad. This is gonna stick with me all day. [emoji25] [emoji22] [emoji35]

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

 

[desert-blue]

If i was a family member under a cloud of suspicion and i was hiring a PI it would be for the sole purpose of finding alternate evidence that pointed away from me and casts a cloud on other people and other scenarios. i would want that evidence held close to the vest to be used in the defense of me or my family member should a trial occur. I do NOT understand klein being hired by "the family" and then publicly making statements. That goes for Vilt too. if they find themselves in a situation where their investigation points to guilt of the parents, for example.. then just shut up. I hired you to help exonerate me not make things worse.

None of this makes sense to me.

He was paid by the public to find DeOrr. I think his contract must have included wording allowing him to follow the leads regardless of where they went: the goal is to find the truth. The public (not family) were the ones who reached out to Klein and helped to get him on board. Presumably the family member that signed the contract must not have thought JM and DK were involved. I agree that it's an unusual arrangement.

 

[wondering25]

I'm a bit shocked reading this. I know things are done differently in the US, but what you describe here would surely amount to a crime in the UK for the PI. Even if I'm completely wrong here (PI's aren't really a thing here) it is, at the very least, unbelievably unethical IMO.

As for the make up of the PI contract my complete guess from reading here would be:

Public donations (payed for it)
Deorr Jr (client)
Family member (signed on Deorr's behalf)

Defense attorneys hire PI all the time to find "the real killer' etc. That was where my mind was going. I didnt realize this PI firm was hired by family and friends to let the chips fall where they may, so to speak. i was under the possibly erroneous assumption, that the PI firm was hired to find alternate and exonerating info that would take the cloud off the parents and show another possibility for where deorr is/was.

Anything i write is just my opinion.

 

[Hatfield]

I agree that everything has been incorrect from the very beginning and that is because it's a myth. They weren't telling the truth, so we cannot try to make sense of their statements.

AGREE and we need to always keep this in mind going forward.

We have had confirmations from LE and BOTH PI's that the parents have NOT been 100% truthful because their stories have changed and discrepancies in their stories occurred.

Therefore we cannot take anything they have previously communicated as being any sort of fact of what happened. Some of it or pieces of it may have some truth in them but we have no idea what is truth and what is fiction.

The TRUTH doesn't change!