ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[desert-blue]

BBM first off, I never said SB OWNED the cremains, only that he and his wife owned the mortuary/crematorium/whatever. Whether or not they were deliberately scattered, on the second day of the search, I do NOT know, does anyone? That was a really odd-colored herring.

Maybe everyone here can overlook all this weird stuff, but I can't. To me it has a meaning whether I know what it means or not - it did happen and it does SEEM to obfuscate the whole mess. Like, what are the ODDS on this? and then SB and wife own the mortuary/crematorium? And, the scatterer is an innocent, flipping the loved-one ashes to the wind while a full-out search for a missing child is going on and that messes up the noses of the search dogs? I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night and on the other hand I may have an over-active imagination. But, even so, them ashes were still blowing in the wind, and screwed up the search for a missing child. I'm sure the answers to this case are still blowing in the wind and it isn't a good or honest one IMO.

Pardon my skepticism.

:cow:

I have found the cremains scattering to be an incredibly, way too coincidental, weird, bizarre part of this case as well. I mean out in the middle of nowhere and the person was supposedly from Oregon? That's a long drive to a reservoir that's not much more than a pond, really.... very weird. Not sure I can bring myself to think that SB was involved, though... that would be just so messed up.

 

[OSpyder]

I would like to know what would happen, IF this attorney finds out he is being lied to also.

 

[giagreen]

I'm still over here giggling over the fact that Klein had his client go stare at wall and wait for some undercover pi to whisper in his ear "999"
Oh man.....lol

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

 

[Onebest]

I'm still over here giggling over the fact that Klein had his client go stare at wall and wait for some undercover pi to whisper in his ear "999"
Oh man.....lol

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

Yes however there could be dangers and threats in this case that create cause for extreme caution. Just sayin...could be a reason for fearful odd behavior. JMO

 

[Beezneez]

A parent just can't go to court to get the other parent's rights terminated. IF and when JM is convicted of a crime, which she hasn't even been charged yet, BB may be able to ask the state to step in with a CPS case.

The only way a parent can have parental rights terminated is IF 1. The non-custodial parent is willing AND 2. there is a person willing and able to step up to adopt the children.

Only the state (IDHW) can request parental rights be terminated without consent.

https://www.isc.idaho.gov/cp/manual/CHAPTER 9-3rd Edition.pdf

If the non-custodial parent is not willing, the custodial parent can file a complaint with the court for the department of child protection to investigate. This would be the part where BB takes JM to court to request the investigation.
JM may allow the investigation or may willingly sign her rights over to BB.
BB is the party available to "adopt" the children, as he is the only parent maintaining a household for the children, then only parent employed, the only parent not currently being investigated for the disappearance and death of a child.

 

[ClaireNC]

I would like to know what would happen, IF this attorney finds out he is being lied to also.

He's a defense attorney. Most of his clients lie and it's his job to support them.

 

[Hoosier952]

I would like to know what would happen, IF this attorney finds out he is being lied to also.

He's a defense attorney. He's getting paid to prove those lies aren't lies at all.

 

[OSpyder]

He's a defense attorney. Most of his clients lie and it's his job to support them.

Yeah, that is what I was figuring but it sure doesn't do much for his credibility, I guess. Maybe that doesn't mean much. Idk. Just a thought!

ETA: I realize that was an incredibly stupid question, but w/ the way this case has gone so far, it made me wonder.

 

[jessie]

I get the implication of the bumper, etc... but if it were truly a tragic accident, why cover it up? Accidents happen. Kids wander away, they drown in lakes and pools, they get hit by cars. Why continue this charade? Even if they panicked in the moment, wouldn't they have realized at some point that that was a mistake? And I know that everyone reacts differently, but we've now had multiple opportunities to view the parents at different times in the process and they've yet to indicate grief, in my opinion. As a parent, I just don't see how I could cover up my baby's accidental death, even in a panic, and then leave their little body cold and alone near some random campground. :tears:

THIS ^^^ x 10,000,000 :cry:

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Right. If I understand correctly this bumper blood detail was released by one of the DeOrrs to explain away what the evidence actually was, right? That doesn't mean that's what evidence Klein is actually talking about. Could be just another diversion and a way to steer away from what was actually found.

Lightbulb moment :freakedout:

Was Klein's statement "we know HOW he died" something to do with this...?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I'm still over here giggling over the fact that Klein had his client go stare at wall and wait for some undercover pi to whisper in his ear "999"
Oh man.....lol

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

As an aside, 999 is the UK equivalent to 911.

 

[skinnycat]

Lightbulb moment :freakedout:

Was Klein's statement "we know HOW he died" something to do with this...?

Wasn't the statement we know how he died we don't know why he died, or something along those lines, not even sure who said it

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

Most of the time I believe the simple answer is the right one, but there have been cases where things are so convoluted ya can't tell which end is up and maybe the perps can't either. Methinks either this is a simple case made complicated for whatever reasons, or a VERY sick, really complicated case. Do NOT ask what I mean by a SICK case, I can't say, don't know, but stranger things have happened.

You and I might be in the same boat here...I have long believed it was a case of sexual abuse and/or a child *advertiser censored* ring. I have nothing specifically that points me in that direction, just a sense of this being such a heinous crime and so many players WILLING to cover it up, no matter the consequences. I mean, what else can it be but something just that terrible?

 

[Mickshawn]

Question for Medical people here (and anybody else)...Is it possible, that if you go through a traumatic event(s)......your brain shuts out that part of your memory.....like some kind of survival mode thing?

 

[TxJan1971]

Question for Medical people here (and anybody else)...Is it possible, that if you go through a traumatic event(s)......your brain shuts out that part of your memory.....like some kind of survival mode thing?

Apparently, if you stab someone 27 times, slice their throat ear to ear, and then put a bullet in their head, yes, you can have a brain fog! Can you say Jodi Arias?

 

[K.L.Puyallup]

Question for Medical people here (and anybody else)...Is it possible, that if you go through a traumatic event(s)......your brain shuts out that part of your memory.....like some kind of survival mode thing?

Yes. Repression is one way that the brain processes trauma.
(dissociative amnesia)

 

[Rayemonde]

Apparently, if you stab someone 27 times, slice their throat ear to ear, and then put a bullet in their head, yes, you can have a brain fog! Can you say Jodi Arias?

Good answer Yeah, murderers use it as an excuse all the time. Luka Magnotta, Tiffany VanAlystyne, Mark Bridger (he abducted and murdered a schoolgirl, then claimed he accidentally hit her with his car and then blacked out and can't remember what he did with her body...), thousands more... Juries never buy it, imo.

 

[jessie]

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Tim...c094c49c9!2m2!1d-112.0339645!2d43.4916514!3e0

For Searchers - Possible location for Deorr's remains:

Working on the incomplete time line as suggested from 8am to 2:28pm (388 min) and using map distance and estimated travel times the wooded area at the South end of Forest Rd 212 has potential as a search area.

This location is 7 miles (straight line dist.) SE of Timber Creek CG, well outside the initial search area and outside an anticipated 5 mi initial search radius (for concealment) From Idaho Falls this location is accessible via 724 off Hwy 28 without passing through Leadore or any camping areas and tactically convenient for a future moving of the remains.

I'm looking for at least three "barriers" between the TC Campground and any potential concealment location. In this case the distance itself, Timber Creek Rd, Big Timber Creek and Leadore Hill Mt. Range.

Scenario:
8:00am parents leave TCCG w/ remains to avoid contact w/potential witnesses.
-Travel to Leadore via 172 to NF105-Swan Basin Rd to Lee Creek Rd (40min-40 Total min)
8:40am arrive in Leadore
8:50am depart Leadore (10m-50Tm)
-Head out of Leadore and back toward TCCG on Lee Creek Rd to NF105-Swan Basin Rd and detour East on unmarked road toward predetermined location passing Big Timber Creek Rd. and crossing over Big Timber Creek then around Leadore Hill and through Warm Springs then South on NF 212 (Cold Springs Rd) to/near end of road within heavily wooded area. (75m-125Tm)
10:05-11:30 Locate and prepare concealment sight. Say goodbyes. (85.

RSBM

I am so impressed by your thoughts and subsequent map trails, amazing work.
My first thought was - how would the parents know of the areas you refer to without previous knowledge - but I think smartphones nowadays can provide maps and references immediately, so maybe previous knowledge isn't necessary.
My second thought was - Are there any mines within the distance?
Burying a body is risky I'd have thought, especially in an area with so much wildlife. Wolves etc might dig it up ?
Being from the UK. I think of April Jones missing in Wales and the searches there that continued for months because it was such a remote area, with many mines where she could have been placed.
Virtually impossible to retrieve a body (such a small one too) or track it with dogs/searchers if it were left in a mine I would imagine. Is this a possibility?
I'd be glad to hear any comments. I'm possibly way off track, I can't get into the mind of anyone who could harm a child so just my thoughts and imo, and to say thanks for your post.

 

[desert-blue]

I am concerned about the early days of the investigation (which from what I understand, SB was not there) and the loss of potential evidence. I don't really understand why LE seemed so trusting of the parents and their story. LE never let on that they suspected the parents and in fact seemed to go out of their way to protect the parents and get the public to stop accusing them (when, in fact, LE did apparently suspect them, although I'm not sure when). Maybe it was a strategy to win the parents' trust and keep them cooperating, but I don't understand allowing them to continue their charade for SEVEN months and allowing DeOrr's remains to further deteriorate (I get the whole honey/flies analogy, but SEVEN months?). Honestly, I wish Klein had been hired before winter set in because I think he could have gotten to the bottom of all this and perhaps even found DeOrr's remains before the snow (maybe I'm too optimistic on that). I may be wrong but I kind of get the impression that LE didn't want to waste resources looking for DeOrr with no direction, so they kept on waiting for one of them to crack and make a confession. I think they figured that was the only way to solve the case. I know hindsight is 20/20 and I don't want to be critical of LE, but I can't help but wonder if maybe LE was too lax with the parents at the beginning of this whole ordeal. MOO.

 

[sonjay]

Good answer Yeah, murderers use it as an excuse all the time. Luka Magnotta, Tiffany VanAlystyne, Mark Bridger (he abducted and murdered a schoolgirl, then claimed he accidentally hit her with his car and then blacked out and can't remember what he did with her body...), thousands more... Juries never buy it, imo.

I know that with traumatic events that happen to a person, it's not at all uncommon for the brain to suppress it. Being in a car accident, being raped, witnessing a murder, other horrible things .... our brains often protect us by not allowing us to remember the traumatic event.

I've never read anything either way about whether a person who commits some horrible act can actually experience a similar memory blackout. That's a fundamentally different event.