ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #27

[Skully]

You don't cover up an accident. You cover up murder, manslaughter, child abuse, that you cover up. I used to think moms and dads would protect a child until I started reading here. There are so many cases where a parent killed a child and the other parent and extended family lied to protect them.

 

[Jo in Calif]

IMO that baby never made it on that trip.
IR couldn't remember squat, he doesn't even remember eating breakfast that morning. He got up to go the bathroom and then went back to bed.
No one remembers the baby at the store, the clerk would surely remember him flirting with her.
I am with the sheriff, I am no expert on mental disability's, but there is one with IR. He seems to me that he has parroted things that happened that morning. He couldn't even remember where the baby was when he was taking Jessica to show her where the fishing hole was. Did Jessica or DeOrr Sr. even have fishing gear with them?
IMO those two will never turn on each other because they are both responsible for their son being gone.

 

[boston5]

This is what I have gathered from IR's first two interviews (I wish this could be more exact but I'm using IR's verbiage). This is all according to IR

Morning- IR gets up and goes to the bathroom, goes back to sleep--no one else is awake at this point.

Mid-morning- Everyone is awake and they may have eaten breakfast, IR goes back to sleep.

Around noon- IR wakes up again and sees that JM, VK and baby Deorr are leaving for the store to get gas.

Later- Everyone is back from the store, they are chatting about fishing then GGP tells IR to show them where to catch the fish.

(There isn't a time frame said here)- First fishing hole, from what I gather IR and JM are the only ones here.

5-10 Minutes later- IR leaves first fishing hole and goes closer to camp to a second fishing hole.

Some time later- IR notices Bob pacing and finds out that Baby Deorr is missing.


There are several things wrong with this timeline IMO. How long does it take to drive to town from the campground? And wasn't the first 911 call made about 2:00?
Also, in the Searching for Deorr One Year Later piece, JM says (at the 3:40 mark) that they went to IR's house 3,4, 5 times before he shows up--why was it so important for him to go? I've been in this situation before, if someone couldn't be found after the second attempt we left them. IMO that piece of information is hanky.

 

[IDTater]

There are several things wrong with this timeline IMO. How long does it take to drive to town from the campground? And wasn't the first 911 call made about 2:00?
Also, in the Searching for Deorr One Year Later piece, JM says (at the 3:40 mark) that they went to IR's house 3,4, 5 times before he shows up--why was it so important for him to go? I've been in this situation before, if someone couldn't be found after the second attempt we left them. IMO that piece of information is hanky.

Back at the beginning, in an attempt to make a decent timeline of events, members here kept running into problems because of the differing/changing stories. Heck, for a long time, no one, including SB, could pin down the day that they arrived! This latest round of interviews further muddies the waters. Google maps tells me it takes about 25 minutes to get from their campsite to town, so an hour-ish of round trip travel time. Plus the running around to different stores in search of diesel, purchasing supplies, using the restroom, etc. When did they have time to scout out fishing holes and then look at minnows/fish, lose their kid, search for 28 minutes to an hour, and then call law enforcement? And wasn't the original story that VK and JA were looking at minnows, IR was off somewhere else and Gramps was watching DeOrr? Now it's IR was with JA and at some point she was actually fishing?

And I was also perplexed at the effort put in to make sure that the odd fisherman friend of only one member of the camping party was included.

 

[scmom]

Sargent and Chance take trip to assist in search for missing Idaho boy


Local resident and K-9 handler Tracy “Trace” Sargent, and her search dog “Chance” just returned from Idaho.

This was no vacation; it was serious business.

Their travels involved the search for a missing two-year boy, DeOrr Kunz.

http://www.northwestgeorgianews.com...cle_6109b730-4909-11e6-a891-17e53588c4ce.html

 

[FinallyRegistered]

Back at the beginning, in an attempt to make a decent timeline of events, members here kept running into problems because of the differing/changing stories. Heck, for a long time, no one, including SB, could pin down the day that they arrived! This latest round of interviews further muddies the waters. Google maps tells me it takes about 25 minutes to get from their campsite to town, so an hour-ish of round trip travel time. Plus the running around to different stores in search of diesel, purchasing supplies, using the restroom, etc. When did they have time to scout out fishing holes and then look at minnows/fish, lose their kid, search for 28 minutes to an hour, and then call law enforcement? And wasn't the original story that VK and JA were looking at minnows, IR was off somewhere else and Gramps was watching DeOrr? Now it's IR was with JA and at some point she was actually fishing?

And I was also perplexed at the effort put in to make sure that the odd fisherman friend of only one member of the camping party was included.

I totally agree, ID Tater, the timeline is a mess.

When IR's recent (3 part) interview is dissected, there is a long period of time when IR doesn't see VDK or little Deorr. He doesn't specifically come out and say it (actually he avoids saying it), but between the trip to the store and VDK checking the cattle gate, IR does NOT have eyes on either VDK or little Deorr.

And, yes, did JA start fishing? In her interview (one-year video) she says she drops her fishing pole. How did they have time to fish/arrange fishing gear in this timeline?

And then there's this bold part:
IR: Me and Bob searched the immediate area up there for a little bit. His mom came from – I don’t know – she was out in the sage brush looking – and she came back to camp and I talked to her a little bit and I said, “What, what’s going on here?” Like “He’s missing.”
SR: Did she seem upset?
IR: Yes, she seemed pretty upset – I couldn’t really look at her in the face or anything – she hasn’t been able to do that for a wh - I don’t know for what reason.

It screams "shame" to me - she should be making eye contact and pleading with everyone to help find her son.

 

[desert-blue]

This is what I have gathered from IR's first two interviews (I wish this could be more exact but I'm using IR's verbiage). This is all according to IR

Morning- IR gets up and goes to the bathroom, goes back to sleep--no one else is awake at this point.

Mid-morning- Everyone is awake and they may have eaten breakfast, IR goes back to sleep.

Around noon- IR wakes up again and sees that JM, VK and baby Deorr are leaving for the store to get gas.

Later- Everyone is back from the store, they are chatting about fishing then GGP tells IR to show them where to catch the fish.

(There isn't a time frame said here)- First fishing hole, from what I gather IR and JM are the only ones here.

5-10 Minutes later- IR leaves first fishing hole and goes closer to camp to a second fishing hole.

Some time later- IR notices Bob pacing and finds out that Baby Deorr is missing.


There are several things wrong with this timeline IMO. How long does it take to drive to town from the campground? And wasn't the first 911 call made about 2:00?
Also, in the Searching for Deorr One Year Later piece, JM says (at the 3:40 mark) that they went to IR's house 3,4, 5 times before he shows up--why was it so important for him to go? I've been in this situation before, if someone couldn't be found after the second attempt we left them. IMO that piece of information is hanky.

The other thing is that supposedly the trip was originally planned for great grandpa and Isaac. Trina claims to have asked Jessica to go along on the trip to keep an eye on grandpa during his camping trip (which I assume he was never planning to go all by himself) . In her interview, Jessica claims to have asked her grandpa who all was going on the trip on the day they were leaving - that makes no sense because she was asked earlier in the week to go on the trip with her grandpa and his friend. Everything about this case is a convoluted mess of lies.

 

[SweetT]

This is what I have gathered from IR's first two interviews (I wish this could be more exact but I'm using IR's verbiage). This is all according to IR

Morning- IR gets up and goes to the bathroom, goes back to sleep--no one else is awake at this point.

Mid-morning- Everyone is awake and they may have eaten breakfast, IR goes back to sleep.

Around noon- IR wakes up again and sees that JM, VK and baby Deorr are leaving for the store to get gas.

Later- Everyone is back from the store, they are chatting about fishing then GGP tells IR to show them where to catch the fish.

(There isn't a time frame said here)- First fishing hole, from what I gather IR and JM are the only ones here.

5-10 Minutes later- IR leaves first fishing hole and goes closer to camp to a second fishing hole.

Some time later- IR notices Bob pacing and finds out that Baby Deorr is missing.


There are several things wrong with this timeline IMO. How long does it take to drive to town from the campground? And wasn't the first 911 call made about 2:00?
Also, in the Searching for Deorr One Year Later piece, JM says (at the 3:40 mark) that they went to IR's house 3,4, 5 times before he shows up--why was it so important for him to go? I've been in this situation before, if someone couldn't be found after the second attempt we left them. IMO that piece of information is hanky.

Maybe if he doesn't go then who is going to entertain ggpa? Maybe noone else really wanted that chore JMO.

 

[desert-blue]

somewhat agree with your thought. At times I think he may be a little smarter than I originally thought, but at times his actions appear to remain consistent. In interviews I like to witness how responsive and how they respond as indicators. Interviewers, often like police, ask questions in a random way to sort of throw off any patterns of question asking. IW appeared to go with the flow and quickly respond to all questions w no pauses or doesn't hesitate...unless he is actually putting thought in truthfully finding the answer in his head. This appears to be more truthful than evasive to me. Maybe that was the first time he had ever been asked about breakfast and he truly couldnt remember what he had for breakfast or if he even had breakfast 12 months after the fact. I would assume the way it sounds from details from the trip it was sort of each man for himself. Maybe IW had a pop tart or had planned on a bag of pretzels for breakfast. While we all scrutinize his "no comments" from interview 1 I try and keep in mind his lawyer was there for the interview, no doubt lawyer instructed IW what categories to avoid, etc. Lawyers sole purpose is/was to protect his client. I honestly think I think IW remains 100% innocent w not one bit of attempting to be evasive. IW didn't know Deorr's parents until the trip and doubt he would hide any info. IW just appreciates his bro time with GPP. As always, just my own personal opinion. My opinion and a quarter will get you a 1" Peppermint patty at the Wawa checkout counter.
BTW, it sure does appear to be a rifle round in IW right hand twirling. Not that I consider that to be unusual for someone living in the mountains.

Not that it makes a difference really, but Isaac lives in the city of Idaho Falls. If that was a bullet in his hand, I find that a little odd, but nothing about this case is normal.

 

[SweetT]

I totally agree, ID Tater, the timeline is a mess.

When IR's recent (3 part) interview is dissected, there is a long period of time when IR doesn't see VDK or little Deorr. He doesn't specifically come out and say it (actually he avoids saying it), but between the trip to the store and VDK checking the cattle gate, IR does NOT have eyes on either VDK or little Deorr.

And, yes, did JA start fishing? In her interview (one-year video) she says she drops her fishing pole. How did they have time to fish/arrange fishing gear in this timeline?

And then there's this bold part:
IR: Me and Bob searched the immediate area up there for a little bit. His mom came from – I don’t know – she was out in the sage brush looking – and she came back to camp and I talked to her a little bit and I said, “What, what’s going on here?” Like “He’s missing.”
SR: Did she seem upset?
IR: Yes, she seemed pretty upset – I couldn’t really look at her in the face or anything – she hasn’t been able to do that for a wh - I don’t know for what reason.

It screams "shame" to me - she should be making eye contact and pleading with everyone to help find her son.

That really is odd. Could it be guilt? Maybe she had been crying and didnt want him to see that? IDK Just a bit weird IMO

 

[ReadySet]

It's probably neither here nor there, but apparently there are all kinds of objects, like lighters and e-cigs, that look just like bullets.

Edited: in regard to IR appearing to be fidgeting with bullet in interviews

 

[neesaki]

This is what I have gathered from IR's first two interviews (I wish this could be more exact but I'm using IR's verbiage). This is all according to IR

Morning- IR gets up and goes to the bathroom, goes back to sleep--no one else is awake at this point.

Mid-morning- Everyone is awake and they may have eaten breakfast, IR goes back to sleep.

Around noon- IR wakes up again and sees that JM, VK and baby Deorr are leaving for the store to get gas.

Later- Everyone is back from the store, they are chatting about fishing then GGP tells IR to show them where to catch the fish.

(There isn't a time frame said here)- First fishing hole, from what I gather IR and JM are the only ones here.

5-10 Minutes later- IR leaves first fishing hole and goes closer to camp to a second fishing hole.

Some time later- IR notices Bob pacing and finds out that Baby Deorr is missing.


There are several things wrong with this timeline IMO. How long does it take to drive to town from the campground? And wasn't the first 911 call made about 2:00?
Also, in the Searching for Deorr One Year Later piece, JM says (at the 3:40 mark) that they went to IR's house 3,4, 5 times before he shows up--why was it so important for him to go? I've been in this situation before, if someone couldn't be found after the second attempt we left them. IMO that piece of information is hanky.

I was just thinking about this same thing, I agree the timeline doesn't quite seem to work, just as JM's and VDK's didn't work. I'm wondering if IR has memory problems related to whatever his disability is. Also some medications can interfere with memory.

BTW, Welcome to Websleuths, boston5. :welcome:

 

[KatieLiz]

I wonder if there are any pictures of DeOrr either on the way or at the campsite. I know as a mom of 3, I am constantly taking pictures of my kids with my iPhone. Technology today makes it so easy to snap quick pictures. I don't know any parent who doesn't own a cell phone without a camera. I think it is very telling if there are absolutely no photos of him.

I totally agree. And I have a feeling their cell phones will be their downfall. Any pictures, and texts, phones records... And especially the *pings* on their cell phones mapping their movement that day. I would also LOVE to see their internet search history in the months both before and after Deorr's disappearance.

 

[KatieLiz]

My opinion on the breakfast thing: if you had stayed two nights already I could see muddling your days together and not remembering which breakfast was which. But they were there one night (apparently.) One breakfast. How do you not remember if or how it took place?

 

[IDTater]

The other thing is that supposedly the trip was originally planned for great grandpa and Isaac. Trina claims to have asked Jessica to go along on the trip to keep an eye on grandpa during his camping trip (which I assume he was never planning to go all by himself) . In her interview, Jessica claims to have asked her grandpa who all was going on the trip on the day they were leaving - that makes no sense because she was asked earlier in the week to go on the trip with her grandpa and his friend. Everything about this case is a convoluted mess of lies.

Which makes it even more weird that they had to track IR down, right? If it was this thought out, planned trip, why did IR need to be tracked down? Jessica definitely gave the impression in her most recent interview that IR was a last minute add to the camping trip.

 

[ZooSleuth]

It's probably neither here nor there, but apparently there are all kinds of objects, like lighters and e-cigs, that look just like bullets.

Edited: in regard to IR appearing to be fidgeting with bullet in interviews

There are bottle openers made from real bullet casings: https://www.bullets2bandages.org/collections/50-caliber

 

[boston5]

I was just thinking about this same thing, I agree the timeline doesn't quite seem to work, just as JM's and VDK's didn't work. I'm wondering if IR has memory problems related to whatever his disability is. Also some medications can interfere with memory.

BTW, Welcome to Websleuths, boston5. :welcome:

Is the disability something that has been proven to be true? Just curious. And thanks for the welcome, I have been here the whole time (I live in Idaho and have been a little on the obsessive side), however it wasn't until recently that I decided to become a member and not just a stalker of WS.

 

[neesaki]

Back at the beginning, in an attempt to make a decent timeline of events, members here kept running into problems because of the differing/changing stories. Heck, for a long time, no one, including SB, could pin down the day that they arrived! This latest round of interviews further muddies the waters. Google maps tells me it takes about 25 minutes to get from their campsite to town, so an hour-ish of round trip travel time. Plus the running around to different stores in search of diesel, purchasing supplies, using the restroom, etc. When did they have time to scout out fishing holes and then look at minnows/fish, lose their kid, search for 28 minutes to an hour, and then call law enforcement? And wasn't the original story that VK and JA were looking at minnows, IR was off somewhere else and Gramps was watching DeOrr? Now it's IR was with JA and at some point she was actually fishing?

And I was also perplexed at the effort put in to make sure that the odd fisherman friend of only one member of the camping party was included.

And to add to that, IR states at about the 4:30 mark in the interview, that after the family returned from the store they just sat around chatting a little bit and hung out . Then Bob (GGP) told him to show them where the fishing holes were. What a mess of a timeline.

[video=youtube;OWCFhAtLjcs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWCFhAtLjcs&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Which makes it even more weird that they had to track IR down, right? If it was this thought out, planned trip, why did IR need to be tracked down? Jessica definitely gave the impression in her most recent interview that IR was a last minute add to the camping trip.

I picked up on that too and thought it seemed strange. We know GGP had been going up there for years and years (Trina recalls going there as a child) and we know Jessica & Vernal had never been there. Do we know if Isaac had?

Does anybody have the 2 separate quotes about this, from both Trina and Jessica?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

My opinion on the breakfast thing: if you had stayed two nights already I could see muddling your days together and not remembering which breakfast was which. But they were there one night (apparently.) One breakfast. How do you not remember if or how it took place?

Because you were absolutely hammered the night before, stumbled out of your tent at 8am for a wee, vaguely recalled seeing a kid getting told off for throwing stuff in a fire, then crashed out for a few more hours?

Did Isaac come up with the 8am bit? He's not been very good at remembering any other times!