ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #27

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If this death was premeditated and related to life insurance money, then why would they hide the body? Would a life insurance policy ever be paid without a body?

But what about a child who wandered off but was never found....perhaps the parents assumed they would be believed and insurance would pay.

I'm not buying the insurance angle just yet, but I can see how the parents might think a disappearance at a campsite would be "enough" for insurance.

ETA: What I'm stating is what the parents possibly assumed. I'm not stating this is how insurance actually works.
 
Basically, yes. They're saying they can't verify DeOrr being seen past 5 pm the night before, and think the camping trip was a cover up.

I always go back to VDK saying "Snake River" TWICE by accident in that first interview...
I know! It always struck me funny. I hope they can gather the resources to search spots on Snake River where one could easily cut over on the drive from Idaho Falls to Leadore.

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I don't have FB, can someone please explain to me what is going on? What was found, where was it found and who found it? I'm dying here.

Just an FYI: Klein's FB page is public, so you don't need an FB account to read it. I don't use FB to read it. :) It's only when someone's FB page settings are private or semi-private that you can't read them without your own account. HTH.
 
It's all a bit contradictory though, if you claim a dog hit in several places, yet there is no evidence DeOrr was on the mountain.

I think they may have meant no evidence of a living, breathing little Deorr. :(
 
I think this new report just has me more confused . Klein seems to be saying that little Deorr was never at the campground alive, but due to a couple of hits by the dog, was there after he was deceased. If the whole camping trip was a ruse, a cover up for something that happened before the camping trip, then why would anyone take his body up there then report him missing, it doesn't make sense to me.
 
I think this new report just has me more confused . Klein seems to be saying that little Deorr was never at the campground alive, but due to a couple of hits by the dog, was there after he was deceased. If the whole camping trip was a ruse, a cover up for something that happened before the camping trip, then why would anyone take his body up there then report him missing, it doesn't make sense to me.

It doesn't make sense....except perhaps to people in a panic about a dead child.

A POSSIBLE scenario is that something happened to DeOrr at home. To cover it up, the parents concocted the story of him getting lost in the wilderness. So, they themselves had to be at the campsite.

They had to put DeOrr somewhere (if we assume they caused the death). I am starting to think the boy never was at the campground but instead was put elsewhere. They could've brought him to the campsite, however, and/or left him somewhere on the way there.'

ETA: Just my opinion at the moment.
 
It doesn't make sense....except perhaps to people in a panic about a dead child.

A POSSIBLE scenario is that something happened to DeOrr at home. To cover it up, the parents concocted the story of him getting lost in the wilderness. So, they themselves had to be at the campsite.

They had to put DeOrr somewhere (if we assume they caused the death). I am starting to think the boy never was at the campground but instead was put elsewhere. They could've brought him to the campsite, however, and/or left him somewhere on the way there.'

ETA: Just my opinion at the moment.

Ah, good point, that would explain it. And also they may have thought it would be easy to fool everyone, and the use of cadaver dogs may never have even occurred to them. Jmo
 
These parents couldn't pay their rent and have numerous money judgments against them. My feeling is that they probably weren't responsible enough to obtain life insurance and consistently pay monthly premiums. A life insurance policy probably would have been mentioned by Klein by now too. I think it's highly unlikely. Just my thoughts.
 
How anyone can think these parents are innocent is beyond me.
 
So glad to see that LE and investigators are still trying to find this poor little boy. His family is a hot stupid mess and I'm surprised they haven't caved in and slipped up with LE so this child can be put to rest. I would have said could be brought home but he had no home. These people are monsters and I'm so happy that LE is on their sorry butts. We are all holding vigil here for little DeOrr and will be here until the truth is known.


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Parents AND Grandpa lied to LE about the circumstances surrounding the baby's disappearance. What kind of people does Jessica come from that they would lie to protect her and help her cover up the murder of a toddler? It is unfathomable to me.

KIC found a camo jacket like the one described to be the last thing the baby was seen wearing, as well as little toy trucks in the landlord's dumpster after they were evicted from their residence for failure to pay rent. MAYBE they just couldn't return to that home after he disappeared, MAYBE they took what they wanted from the home and left the rest (having been a landlord for many years for many properties, you would not believe the condition in which people leave a premises) and MAYBE that jacket no longer fit.

The confusion about the child not being on the mountain and the dog alerts can't be resolved here unless, as some have suggested, the dead child was taken to the camp ground and then disposed of during the morning before they got to the store in Leadore. I suppose it is possible that they packed up the child's body, drove to the Leadore area, camped out that night and then went on a drive to find the perfect location to bury the child but WOW! - Grandpas is in on this??

Vernal's cell phone tells on him, he didn't drive down or up the road to get a cell signal like he said he did.

So dang sad that they killed this precious most blessed gift from God.

It seems being a toddler is the most dangerous job in the world.
 
It doesn't make sense....except perhaps to people in a panic about a dead child.

A POSSIBLE scenario is that something happened to DeOrr at home. To cover it up, the parents concocted the story of him getting lost in the wilderness. So, they themselves had to be at the campsite.

They had to put DeOrr somewhere (if we assume they caused the death). I am starting to think the boy never was at the campground but instead was put elsewhere. They could've brought him to the campsite, however, and/or left him somewhere on the way there.'

ETA: Just my opinion at the moment.

And if they were in a panic, which makes sense to me, it was probably the result of physical abuse, nothing premeditated. And no accident, or they wouldn't have gone to such lengths to cover it up. That poor baby. :cry:
 
This is a finding that interests me:

The Cell Phone Impact study was able to determine that Vernal Kunz’s testimony was fabricated. As well it was determined that Vernal Kunz’s testimony that he drove 1.5 miles to get a cell signal was not truthful.

I'd like to know what they were able to determine about his movements that day based upon his cell pings.
 
For me this is just more proof of Klein's absolute lack of professionalism. If he in fact was working with LE on this case, which I serious doubt he is, he would never release a report like this until the case was closed. Klein basically took 5-6 pages to really say nothing, again.


He starts out saying he didn't want the case, but really he wanted the $20,000. The same thing he is doing on the baby Ember case in N. CA. Klein then points out an exact amount of money he doesn't know what happened to, inferring something nefarious was going on. He doesn't even know how old DeOrr was, Klein said the was three but I think all of agree he was only two. Klein states he was "allegedly" fathered by DVK. Again an undisputed fact the DVK is DeOrr's father.

Klein claims to be the "lead civil" investigator but yet he keeps speaking as though he has some ability to determine criminal responsibility (if there is any). He then goes on to say exactly where the search were and what was or was not found. Do you think for a moment LE would want those sites made public if they had planned on further searches?

On to the search of DVK & JM house. Klein adds so much unnecessary information here to such as they were evicted for failing to pay rent. Then Klein adds the information that the evidence actually wasn't found in the house but the dumpster the landlord used. How long was the dumpster there? Was it secure in any way? Who had access to it? As the mother of boys and the grandmother of boys I know there was no way I could have kept track of all the little "matchbook" type cars my boys had. The camo jacket, again another non started. I would often hang on to things my boys grew out of to either pass down to one of the younger boys or to give away. It's interesting to note that Klein didn't say what size it was. If it really had significance to the investigation, why didn't Klein make it clear what size it was. The credit card and the insurance tracker? Just more side shows of Klein's. A friend makes purchases on his/her credit card and Klein thinks it related to the investigation?

He then does a huge cheer for Team Klein, reminding us all, just in case we missed in all the other sideshows, how amazing Klein really is. Then he goes on to state he is investigation two FB page admins for, get this, releasing information! And then there is the threat. Don't post anything negative about KIC. If you do you are being misled and may need to consider your actions.

I get that many of you believe the parents/family are responsible for DeOrr's disappearance/death but please take the time to read between the lines of Klein's statements. In my career I have read thousands of police reports and investigative reports from a simple burglary to first degree murder and never in over 20 years have a seen a report like this from a professional investigator.

I don't know what happened up there but I'm not ready to say the parents murdered DeOrr. I can't say they didn't, but nothing so far has definitely shown me they did. I believe DeOrr was up there, IR states he saw him Friday after they came back from Leadore. Just because IR isn't talking to Klein does not mean his statements should be discounted.

And one last point. The FBI is not going to release any of their findings to Klein. They are never going to give him information on this case. That is not how the FBI works.

All of you are entitled to your opinions and theories about what happened to DeOrr but remember I am too entitled to mine. Please be respectful of that.
 
For me this is just more proof of Klein's absolute lack of professionalism. If he in fact was working with LE on this case, which I serious doubt he is, he would never release a report like this until the case was closed. Klein basically took 5-6 pages to really say nothing, again.


He starts out saying he didn't want the case, but really he wanted the $20,000. The same thing he is doing on the baby Ember case in N. CA. Klein then points out an exact amount of money he doesn't know what happened to, inferring something nefarious was going on. He doesn't even know how old DeOrr was, Klein said the was three but I think all of agree he was only two. Klein states he was "allegedly" fathered by DVK. Again an undisputed fact the DVK is DeOrr's father.

Klein claims to be the "lead civil" investigator but yet he keeps speaking as though he has some ability to determine criminal responsibility (if there is any). He then goes on to say exactly where the search were and what was or was not found. Do you think for a moment LE would want those sites made public if they had planned on further searches?

On to the search of DVK & JM house. Klein adds so much unnecessary information here to such as they were evicted for failing to pay rent. Then Klein adds the information that the evidence actually wasn't found in the house but the dumpster the landlord used. How long was the dumpster there? Was it secure in any way? Who had access to it? As the mother of boys and the grandmother of boys I know there was no way I could have kept track of all the little "matchbook" type cars my boys had. The camo jacket, again another non started. I would often hang on to things my boys grew out of to either pass down to one of the younger boys or to give away. It's interesting to note that Klein didn't say what size it was. If it really had significance to the investigation, why didn't Klein make it clear what size it was. The credit card and the insurance tracker? Just more side shows of Klein's. A friend makes purchases on his/her credit card and Klein thinks it related to the investigation?

He then does a huge cheer for Team Klein, reminding us all, just in case we missed in all the other sideshows, how amazing Klein really is. Then he goes on to state he is investigation two FB page admins for, get this, releasing information! And then there is the threat. Don't post anything negative about KIC. If you do you are being misled and may need to consider your actions.

I get that many of you believe the parents/family are responsible for DeOrr's disappearance/death but please take the time to read between the lines of Klein's statements. In my career I have read thousands of police reports and investigative reports from a simple burglary to first degree murder and never in over 20 years have a seen a report like this from a professional investigator.

I don't know what happened up there but I'm not ready to say the parents murdered DeOrr. I can't say they didn't, but nothing so far has definitely shown me they did. I believe DeOrr was up there, IR states he saw him Friday after they came back from Leadore. Just because IR isn't talking to Klein does not mean his statements should be discounted.

And one last point. The FBI is not going to release any of their findings to Klein. They are never going to give him information on this case. That is not how the FBI works.

All of you are entitled to your opinions and theories about what happened to DeOrr but remember I am too entitled to mine. Please be respectful of that.

Thank you for taking the time to say this, I completely agree😀.
 
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