ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[Ekkwhine]

Her body had been hidden at the neighbors, then brought back after the initial searches, only to be found during the last search, IIRC.

April Jones?

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[KatieLiz]

There was a case in the UK a couple of years ago in which a 12 year old girl was reported missing from her grandmother's house. Her body was found a week later (due to the smell) in the loft of the same house which had been searched on 3 occasions by police & cadaver dogs. It was down to human failure that the body was not recovered earlier - the dog handler bore the brunt of the criticism.
Please don't ever believe that, just because the experts have stated that Deorr isn't somewhere in the creek or its surroundings, his body isn't actually there, hidden from sight.

You ask me to not believe the professionals.... yet you're repeatedly insinuating we should believe the million stories told by the parents that have been contradictory to themselves. I'm sorry but I'm gonna use my own judgement on what makes sense and what doesn't. And I followed the creek search very closely and I'm confident these LEO'S care deeply and wouldn't write off the creek unless they were 100% confident.

I put a hell of a lot more stock in what LE has to say over what Jessica and Vernal have to say.

 

[KatieLiz]

I have difficult believing Deorr was never at the campsite. Didn't the dogs scent him in the immediate area? Why take the blanket, cup & monkey but not the child with them? Such an assertion makes no sense on the face of it,

His scent would have been there because his possessions were. Our assertion is that he could have been killed and disposed of before the trip or on the way, and his possessions were there in order to stage this entire charade.

Make a lot more sense than any of J and V's stories, IMO. And more sense than a lot of the alternative explanations and theories being presented here this week...

 

[CoverMeCagney]

There was a case in the UK a couple of years ago in which a 12 year old girl was reported missing from her grandmother's house. Her body was found a week later (due to the smell) in the loft of the same house which had been searched on 3 occasions by police & cadaver dogs. It was down to human failure that the body was not recovered earlier - the dog handler bore the brunt of the criticism.
Please don't ever believe that, just because the experts have stated that Deorr isn't somewhere in the creek or its surroundings, his body isn't actually there, hidden from sight.

Tia Sharp, I think.

It's doubtful DeOrr is in that creek; the police and Vernal both said it had been completely ripped apart and thoroughly searched. I'd like the reservoir to be drained though.

 

[misty48]

You ask me to not believe the professionals.... yet you're repeatedly insinuating we should believe the million stories told by the parents that have been contradictory to themselves. I'm sorry but I'm gonna use my own judgement on what makes sense and what doesn't. And I followed the creek search very closely and I'm confident these LEO'S care deeply and wouldn't write off the creek unless they were 100% confident.

I put a hell of a lot more stock in what LE has to say over what Jessica and Vernal have to say.

I'm not asking you to disbelieve the professionals. I'm expecting you to realise that they are not infallible when it comes to thoroughly searching such a large, dense area complete with a flowing creek. Of course everyone cared, and still cares, deeply.

 

[KatieLiz]

Hmm Jessica appears to have deleted her Facebook profile. Her original JM page is still there but untouched since January. Her Jessica Lyn page was still there a day or two ago but poof... gone now.

 

[KatieLiz]

I'm not asking you to disbelieve the professionals. I'm expecting you to realise that they are not infallible when it comes to thoroughly searching such a large, dense area complete with a flowing creek. Of course everyone cared, and still cares, deeply.

Yes but you have repeatedly not believed what LE is telling us, but will search through the suspects statements to concoct scenarios in which they could somehow possibly be innocent.

You're good with coming up with theories, I just wish you would step out of the defense zone and concoct some theories in which they are guilty. I bet those will be easier to come up with, since the suspects have provided more than enough fodder for creating a story.

 

[misty48]

Her body had been hidden at the neighbors, then brought back after the initial searches, only to be found during the last search, IIRC.

Incorrect. The body was in the house all the time. The neighbour was only ever charged with wasting police time (I believe he told police he saw the girl leave the house at lunchtime on the day she was reported missing)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Tia_Sharp.

There was another case, in the US - Stephen McDaniel convicted of killing Lauren Giddings - in which cadaver dogs failed to alert to a refuse can where a human torso had been recovered a few hours before the screening took place. The handler was Tracy Sergeant & one of the dogs used was Chance. - reputedly the best in their field.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/540762/mcdaniel-defense-motions-351-pages.txt

 

[misty48]

Yes but you have repeatedly not believed what LE is telling us, but will search through the suspects statements to concoct scenarios in which they could somehow possibly be innocent.

You're good with coming up with theories, I just wish you would step out of the defense zone and concoct some theories in which they are guilty. I bet those will be easier to come up with, since the suspects have provided more than enough fodder for creating a story.

If Deorr was the victim of Stranger Abduction, then none of the 4 are guilty of anything.
If Deorr was never at the camp, all 4 are guilty of a conspiracy & possibly more.
The truth may be something else entirely.

 

[flourish]

Yikes. I followed this case at the beginning. I've always thought he wandered off and was taken by a Mountain Lion. I'm not as convinced of that now, but I'm also not convinced these folks killed him.

I just so happened to have very recently moved to their town, so now I'm an unverified local. I'm surprised how many people at my new job haven't even heard of this little guy. It's not like this is a big town! In any case, I don't have a car to do any sleuthing with. darn. But it's crazy how remote and rugged it is around here. I could absolutely believe a body or evidence could be missed.

I will now duck behind my couch to avoid the inevitable tomatoes. I'll even admit I'm a bit biased due to sharing an ancestor, several generations ago, with dad's side of the family, and that likely clouds my view. But the Kunz family in general (very general) aren't particularly known for social finesse, either, so I keep that in mind, too.

 

[KatieLiz]

If Deorr was the victim of Stranger Abduction, then none of the 4 are guilty of anything.
If Deorr was never at the camp, all 4 are guilty of a conspiracy & possibly more.
The truth may be something else entirely.

And the likelihood of a stranger abduction in such a remote location is.... almost zero? What about the likelihood of parents being responsible for disappearing their child? A lot higher than zero.

What I'm saying is we are now rehashing implausible scenarios which have been exhausted in this forum over the last 15 months.

And it's entirely possible that IR was duped and led to believe Deorr was there.

In my opinion here are either 2, 3, or 4 guilty parties in this group.of adults. Not 1, not 0. JMO based on everything presented by LE, Vilt, Klein, and the parents and family members themselves.

 

[Deleted member 278]

I have difficult believing Deorr was never at the campsite. Didn't the dogs scent him in the immediate area? Why take the blanket, cup & monkey but not the child with them? Such an assertion makes no sense on the face of it,

why take blanket and cup and monkey with them but not take him makes perfect sense if they wanted to create the illusion that he was there.

 

[KatieLiz]

why take blanket and cup and monkey with them but not take him makes perfect sense if they wanted to create the illusion that he was there.

Exactly. Just like J and V initially tried to say he must have been abducted because he always had the blanket and cup, yet now J admits those items were in vehicles at the time. So why on earth would they have gone on and on about the cup and Blankie in the initial press interviews if they had put them in the vehicles themselves. It was part of the storyline.

 

[Russian Blue]

You ask me to not believe the professionals.... yet you're repeatedly insinuating we should believe the million stories told by the parents that have been contradictory to themselves. I'm sorry but I'm gonna use my own judgement on what makes sense and what doesn't. And I followed the creek search very closely and I'm confident these LEO'S care deeply and wouldn't write off the creek unless they were 100% confident.

I put a hell of a lot more stock in what LE has to say over what Jessica and Vernal have to say.

Well to quote Vernal, "he is not in that water"

 

[misty48]

why take blanket and cup and monkey with them but not take him makes perfect sense if they wanted to create the illusion that he was there.

So if they left home & took those items with them to create the illusion he was there, you must have ruled out something happening en route to the site.

 

[neesaki]

Yikes. I followed this case at the beginning. I've always thought he wandered off and was taken by a Mountain Lion. I'm not as convinced of that now, but I'm also not convinced these folks killed him.

I just so happened to have very recently moved to their town, so now I'm an unverified local. I'm surprised how many people at my new job haven't even heard of this little guy. It's not like this is a big town! In any case, I don't have a car to do any sleuthing with. darn. But it's crazy how remote and rugged it is around here. I could absolutely believe a body or evidence could be missed.

I will now duck behind my couch to avoid the inevitable tomatoes. I'll even admit I'm a bit biased due to sharing an ancestor, several generations ago, with dad's side of the family, and that likely clouds my view. But the Kunz family in general (very general) aren't particularly known for social finesse, either, so I keep that in mind, too.

LOL, don't feel alone. I was one of the proponents of the mountain lion theory for a long time. And I got blasted for it. So, I know how you feel. That said, I am trying to go along with what LE is stating as evidence, that there appears to be either death by an accident or homicide by those involved, i.e., the parents. Also named as suspects. Which goes to, their lies and ever changing stories.

That said, I still don't think anything would surprise me. There is the possibility they were all bombed out of their mind a few days before, or even after they arrived at the campground, and then something tragic happened, and they decided to cover it up. jmo

 

[Onebest]

There is no sense trying to make sense of their stories about fishing and exploring or whatever. Baby DeOrr wasn't there so it doesn't matter. What we need to be discussing is what they did all day Thursday and Friday morning. Oh wait, we can't, because they've given us absolutely nothing to discuss. Perhaps there is a reason for that? MOO.

:loveyou: nailed it!!

 

[KayCherry]

Am I also tripping on acid in this scenario? That is the only way someone would decide to randomly cover up a toddler's death when they had nothing to do with it. Issac doesn't present as the smartest person but I just don't see him entrapping himself in the hypothetical scenario you paint. If something like you propose happened (it didn't) I would see someone not wanting to get in trouble just turning around and leaving, see no evil hear no evil.

Since Klein and LE have expressed doubts Deorr was ever on the mountain alive, my mind has turned towards those scenarios. I now think the 8 different versions of who was fishing, exploring, hiking, etc are all just a sideshow. I am more inclined to believe the parents hid the body before going camping and fooled the other campers into believing Deorr was there when he in fact wasn't. Perhaps GGP was in on the original plan or maybe he figured it out after not sure, but I see Issac as just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I seldom post, but thoroughly enjoy keeping up on a few cases. This is one. I agree whole heartedly ~ and will say this is what I thought all along. I feel he was "never" there. Great Post Apparition Thanks

 

[Onebest]

Tia Sharp, I think.

It's doubtful DeOrr is in that creek; the police and Vernal both said it had been completely ripped apart and thoroughly searched. I'd like the reservoir to be drained though.

A video of the early water searches showing some video of the divers.

"This new dive team has the capabilities of side sonar, according to Bonneville County. Divers typically use a sonar robot to assist them in muddy or foggy waters.The waters of Stone Reservoir are clear. The lake is small with a muddy bottom, according to Lemhi County Chief Deputy Steve Penner."

http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/idah...arch-for-missing-east-idaho-toddler/175336954

IMO His body would not have stayed on the bottom of the pond. His shoes/bootscwould have slipped off with changes in his condition. Since the the rez isn't that deep and it was a warmer time of year, the water was probably not frigid. If that's true, his body would've come to the surface within several days. Totally a guess on my part. Here is alink on drowning biology should anyone be interested. JMO

http://www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/Fire and Rescue Personnel/Biology of drowning.pdf
"Almost without exception, a dead body lying on the bottom of a river or lake will come to the surface again. This is due to gas formed in the body tissues as decay occurs. When enough gas has formed to inflate the tissues and distend the skin, the body becomes lighter than water and rises to the surface. This process is due to the action of bacteria within the body. Consequently, the length of time that elapses before the body rises depends not only upon the amount of fat contained in the tissues but on the temperature of the water. If the water is warm, the formation of gas within the body occurs rapidly and the body may rise to the surface in a day or two. However, if the water is cold, bacterial action takes place very slowly and it may take several weeks before the body appears on the surface. When a body is fully distended it is almost impossible to sink even with counter weights."

 

[KatieLiz]

Well to quote Vernal, "he is not in that water"

Exactly. I would love to see Snake River dragged...