ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[CoverMeCagney]

Covermecagney
I was really hoping you would have a "thank this post if you are on the fence" I'm still on the fence about a few things. Do I think there was possibility that he wondered off? Yes. I have followed searches where dogs failed to find living lost toddlers before they died. So there's that. Does that explain the changing stories? Not at all. Then if he was killed, I still think it was a cover up. But on the fence about whether it was before the trip, or during the trip. Perhaps he consumed drugs? That would explain why they didn't call 911. It wouldn't be just an accident of him getting hurt. It would be an accident that should never ever have happened.
I still can't believe that it was a premeditated murder. I'm not saying it wasn't, I'm just saying I can't fathom that's the case.

I can say with certainty that I believe Trina is innocent.

Haha, I could go all day with quick polls for various scenarios in this case as there are soooo many theories... but here you go, just for you...

QUICK POLL

Thank this post if you are totally on the fence about what happened, change your mind as often as the wind, believe all options are still possible (right down to child-stealing eagles and Idahoan elephants) and simply cannot fathom how this case hasn't been busted wide open yet

(I can't thank my own posts but would probably thank this one!)

 

[turtlefur]

Thanks! I appreciate it


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[byo]

QUICK POLL

Thank this post if you believe DeOrr died before the camp trip

I think Baby DeOrr died before the campgrounds.

 

[KatieLiz]

Thanks all for voting, stunned nobody here thinks DeOrr was even actually at the campsite though! I'm still in two minds about that as it would make all 4 complicit in something and I would like to think Isaac has been truthful, but perhaps not. In my opinion we need to break Isaac, I think he's the key...

PS sorry to hear about your foot, Neesaki! At least it's not your typing hand though!

Yes I find it interesting which if your questions got little or no votes. Thanks for doing the poll!

I'm torn on IR- I believe he could have been easily manipulated and led to believe Deorr was actually there even if he wasn't. They very well could have pretended Deorr was sleeping or in the vehicles when IR was around. Then again he COULD be playing along with their story... for any number of reasons. He may "know", or he may have been under the influence of alcohol or drugs and told certain things to say. IR'S involvement, or lack there of, is something I personally go back and forth on. But in my mind, if he's involved in any way he's only an accessory. I do not believe he is in any way actually responsible for this though.

I always go back to Thursday night. Am I correct in remembering that GGP and IR went to a bar in Leadore?

Could that have been GGP's "job", to get IR drunk so that he wouldn't notice that Deorr wasn't around? Did it buy J and V extra time to drive somewhere (burning a lot of Diesel in the truck)?

Man... I just keep remembering piece after piece of information. I feel like my head will eventually explode with this case.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Is this what you are thinking of?
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...-know-how-were-just-trying-to-figure-out-why/

*snipped*
[FONT="]"We are also concerned with other information from folks that have come forward regarding (auxiliary) issues up on the mountain that day."[/FONT]

The second (scenario) is there was an intended removal of the body from that area. Our concern continues to be, as we have visited with a lot of the first responders that were there that day and witnesses that were there that day, that none of the dogs were able to hint on any scent. We are concerned with that.

We are also concerned with other information from folks that have come forward regarding (auxiliary) issues up on the mountain that day.

What we are going to do is totally focus on those witnesses and those leads and we still have, I’d say, five maybe six really good active leads still working.

bbm

underlined= What does it mean? Google translation isn't able to explain to me.

 

[KatieLiz]

The second (scenario) is there was an intended removal of the body from that area. Our concern continues to be, as we have visited with a lot of the first responders that were there that day and witnesses that were there that day, that none of the dogs were able to hint on any scent. We are concerned with that.

We are also concerned with other information from folks that have come forward regarding (auxiliary) issues up on the mountain that day.

What we are going to do is totally focus on those witnesses and those leads and we still have, I’d say, five maybe six really good active leads still working.

bbm

underlined= What does it mean? Google translation isn't able to explain to me.

Not sure if this helps?

aux·il·ia·ry
ôɡˈzilyərē,ôɡˈzil(&#601rē/
adjective
adjective: auxiliary
1.
providing supplementary or additional help and support.
"an auxiliary nurse"
synonyms: additional, supplementary, supplemental, extra, spare, reserve, backup, emergency, fallback, other More
"an auxiliary power source"
ancillary, assistant, support
"auxiliary staff"
(of equipment) held in reserve.
"the ship has an auxiliary power source"
(of troops) engaged in the service of a nation at war but not part of the regular army, and often of foreign origin.
(of a sailing vessel) equipped with a supplementary engine.
noun
noun: auxiliary; plural noun: auxiliaries
1.
a person or thing providing supplementary or additional help and support.
"a nursing auxiliary"
synonyms: assistant, helper, ancillary
"a nursing auxiliary"
NORTH AMERICAN
a group of volunteers giving supplementary support to an organization or institution.
"members of the Volunteer Fire Department's women's auxiliary"
troops engaged in the service of a nation at war but not part of the regular army, and often of foreign origin.
-------------
-------------

Could it be in reference to:
A) Jessica being there to assist GGP
B) someone else coming in and assisting the adults at the campsite? (TBC? Or someone else?) Did the other campers witness vehicles coming and going?
C) The mysterious mention of an EMT bag?
.... D) anything else anyone can think of this could be in reference to?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Yes I find it interesting which if your questions got little or no votes. Thanks for doing the poll!

I'm torn on IR- I believe he could have been easily manipulated and led to believe Deorr was actually there even if he wasn't. They very well could have pretended Deorr was sleeping or in the vehicles when IR was around. Then again he COULD be playing along with their story... for any number of reasons. He may "know", or he may have been under the influence of alcohol or drugs and told certain things to say. IR'S involvement, or lack there of, is something I personally go back and forth on. But in my mind, if he's involved in any way he's only an accessory. I do not believe he is in any way actually responsible for this though.

I always go back to Thursday night. Am I correct in remembering that GGP and IR went to a bar in Leadore?

Could that have been GGP's "job", to get IR drunk so that he wouldn't notice that Deorr wasn't around? Did it buy J and V extra time to drive somewhere (burning a lot of Diesel in the truck)?

Man... I just keep remembering piece after piece of information. I feel like my head will eventually explode with this case.

I know, we've got so many fragments / snippets / rumours, some of which will be true. I can't help thinking the rear bumper has something to do with it. And apologies, I just checked and I think it was Vernals father that posted it - why do they all have to be called DeOrr!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think Baby DeOrr died before the campgrounds.

Plural? Elaborate!

 

[Onebest]

The second (scenario) is there was an intended removal of the body from that area. Our concern continues to be, as we have visited with a lot of the first responders that were there that day and witnesses that were there that day, that none of the dogs were able to hint on any scent. We are concerned with that.

We are also concerned with other information from folks that have come forward regarding (auxiliary) issues up on the mountain that day.

What we are going to do is totally focus on those witnesses and those leads and we still have, I’d say, five maybe six really good active leads still working.

bbm

underlined= What does it mean? Google translation isn't able to explain to me.

Extra stuff reported by others would have to be things outside what the 4 adults said happened. I think it could mean loud noises that were heard by other campers, screaming, yellling, drunkeness or other types of bad behavior that was reported. Sound travels in a campground.

Anyone remember when they went to the Silver Dollar Bar? Thursday Night? Didnt the the three men go inside and JM was in truck alone with baby Deoor? Was he dead already by then?

I have often thought that what horrid thing happened to baby Deoor was on or before Thursday because they left it SO conveniently out of their story. Did they dispose of his body Thursday? go to campground, get drunk and wait until Friday mid day to call 911?

 

[byo]

Plural? Elaborate!

Sorry, Cags. I meant died before the campground-- the campsite.

I keep thinking of the incident where gpa's Suburban overheated.

I wonder if that could be an auxiliary (supplemental) issue.

 

[Hoosier952]

I'm on the fence.

I'm torn between Deorr dying prior to the trip, on the way to camp, or at the campground. I don't think he wandered off. I don't think he was taking by an elephant or a creep in a jeep. I don't think IR had anything to do with the disappearance, but could believe he was covering for someone or was lied to about the events of the day and has stuck with that story for the sake of keeping his friendship with GGP. I don't think GGP had anything to do with the disappearance, but I do think he knows way more than he's admitting to.

 

[desert-blue]

Extra stuff reported by others would have to be things outside what the 4 adults said happened. I think it could mean loud noises that were heard by other campers, screaming, yellling, drunkeness or other types of bad behavior that was reported. Sound travels in a campground.

Anyone remember when they went to the Silver Dollar Bar? Thursday Night? Didnt the the three men go inside and JM was in truck alone with baby Deoor? Was he dead already by then?

I have often thought that what horrid thing happened to baby Deoor was on or before Thursday because they left it SO conveniently out of their story. Did they dispose of his body Thursday? go to campground, get drunk and wait until Friday mid day to call 911?

Klein said that two men went into the bar but neither of them were Vernal, so I assume it was only Bob and Isaac. Jessica slipped up and said that when they determined the Silver Dollar was closed, they went BACK to the campground. We have been lead to believe that the stop at the Silver Dollar was made on the way to the campground, so that's a strange thing to say. She tried to correct herself, but her words seemed to indicate that perhaps they had already been to the campground (or maybe another campground? who knows?). The thing with this whole case is that almost all of what we have been told has come from Jessica and Vernal and they are not being truthful. Isaac hasn't given us an account of what occurred on Thursday and Bob hasn't uttered one word. LE won't say anything either. Klein has provided some details but it's like having 10 pieces from a thousand piece puzzle. I'm inclined to disregard most of what Jessica and Vernal have said, though.

 

[Mickshawn]

For some reason, this "thought" popped into my head the other day: I wonder if Vernal is paying JMA off (maybe on a weekly basis) to keep quiet......(If she doesn't talk, they are both safe and sound....in his mind, at least).

 

[neesaki]

Is this what you are thinking of?
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...-know-how-were-just-trying-to-figure-out-why/

*snipped*
[FONT=&amp]"We are also concerned with other information from folks that have come forward regarding (auxiliary) issues up on the mountain that day."[/FONT]

That does appear to be it. I guess I was remembering it a little differently. Thanks!

 

[neesaki]

SBM for brevity:

Extra stuff reported by others would have to be things outside what the 4 adults said happened. I think it could mean loud noises that were heard by other campers, screaming, yellling, drunkeness or other types of bad behavior that was reported. Sound travels in a campground.

This is what I've believed as well, that maybe there was some loud commotion or raucous behavior that was enough to attract the attention of the other party camping nearby.

 

[amateur sleuth]

If there was 6 inches of fast flowing water (and I do question that) then how were JA, VDK and IR able to remain standing while fishing in the creek (allegedly) ?

Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't Vernal and Jessica ORIGINALLY say they walked to the creeek, not more than 50 yds away from the campsite, intending to look for minnows for DeOrr to look at? I do not remember them saying they gathered up all their fishing equipment and actually went into the water.

And if DeOrr saw his mommy and daddy walking away, wouldn't he follow after them. They said he was sitting in his "chair" last time they saw him. Was it a little camping chair or a high chair?

 

[jessie]

Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't Vernal and Jessica ORIGINALLY say they walked to the creeek, not more than 50 yds away from the campsite, intending to look for minnows for DeOrr to look at? I do not remember them saying they gathered up all their fishing equipment and actually went into the water.

And if DeOrr saw his mommy and daddy walking away, wouldn't he follow after them. They said he was sitting in his "chair" last time they saw him. Was it a little camping chair or a high chair?

Yes J & V ORIGINALLY said they walked to the creek, 50 yds/10/20 minutes away
But then IR said he was on ahead with J, and V and Deorr were lingering behind.
Then another time J & V had rods, walked over a log on the creek, then walked over some stepping stones on the creek and J was casting her line, so
she was fishing at least.
The only chair I heard of was GGP's. I didn't know Deorr had a chair too?

Listen to Jessica's most recent vid on Klein's site = she goes through the latest story almost step by step.

I've just had a thought about these varying stories of the passage from campground to creek. Is it possible they physically rehearsed that bit a few times ?
Maybe trying to work out the most plausible story of discovering Deorr being out of their sight and disappearing ?
That's why it;s never the same story, because they get mixed up with which one they are telling each time.?

I am soooo mixed up now. :thinking:

 

[amateur sleuth]

Thanks Jesssie, I apologize if I got my recollections wrong. I cannot stomach listening or watching any interviews or re-reading all the threads and the things that either one have said. The last interview I watched where Jessica sat next to Vernal tapping her foot, smiling at someone off camera and just looking over at Vernal every now and then and nodding her head, acting the whole time like she was annoyed at having to even be there wasting her time was it for me. And I could picture Vernal telling her before the interview......."Just shut-up" and let me do all the talking!!

 

[jessie]

Thanks Jesssie, I apologize if I got my recollections wrong. I cannot stomach listening or watching any interviews or re-reading all the threads and the things that either one have said. The last interview I watched where Jessica sat next to Vernal tapping her foot, smiling at someone off camera and just looking over at Vernal every now and then and nodding her head, acting the whole time like she was annoyed at having to even be there wasting her time was it for me. And I could picture Vernal telling her before the interview......."Just shut-up" and let me do all the talking!!

No need to apologise, your recollection was quite right. It's just that since then their stories have changed more than a few times :facepalm: Difficult to remember the latest one !

 

[jnblsm]

Should be getting a new thread soon, which infuriates me to still not be anywhere and on #29

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